Military Project gone awry?

Originally posted by strafgod
i remember we had a fish die off like that in indiana that was caused by mercury that had been dumped in the white river. i bet these birds probly ate the dead fish and whatever poisoned the fish poisoned the birds.

This is even more unlikely than the fireworks theory, imo...

Blackbirds don't eat fish. They eat berries and grains. Nice attempt though... It also wouldn't explain why only blackbirds died and not...say....buzzards or eagles, who absolutely DO eat fish.

Also, don't forget that the fish died several hours away from where the birds died. the birds died within a 1 miles radius. AND the Arkansas river does not go anywhere near the town where the birds died. If your scenario was true, the river would be "ground zero" and the bird die-offs would happen within a radius of that location. That just doesn't support the real facts of what is happening....

They said the birds that there's hundreds of thousands of nesting for the winter so a loss of thousands because of new years gunfire / fireworks stress wouldn't bo out of line. It's not like they ALL died. The fish is a normal die off from reports just more than normai in number

OK....LET'S REITERATE THE FACTS:

1. 100,000 drum fish die off in Arkansas river around Ozark in a 20 mile stretch
2. 5000 blackbirds die off around midnight on NYE in Beebe in a 1 mile radius
3. Ozark and Beebe are approximately 125 miles from each other.
4. The Arkansas River does NOT go anywhere near Beebe.

Some assumptions can be made:

1. The blackbirds did not eat the fish. Black birds do not eat fish! They eat berries, insects, and seeds. Also, if the fish were really the culprit, then other species that DO eat fish - such as buzzards and eagles would have died off too. Further, that would make the river "ground zero" and all animal deaths would be in a radius from that location. This is not the case.

2. Fireworks are unlikely to be the culprit in the bird deaths. If this were the case, there'd be millions of birds dying off every 4th of July. This would also not explain the occurance within a 1 mile radius which is too big for it to be "fireworks."

3. Lightning is also very unlikely. First of all, there was no lightning in the area of Beebe and the bird deaths that evening. Second, as someone else already mentioned, there would be telltale damage such as fried birds. There were no fried birds. Other than the ambiguous "physical trauma" (which could have come from falling), we don't know what the condition of the birds was. However, when you review the television footage, it is apparent that the birds are NOT fried.

4. Don't know where the duck comes into this...but your theories are hilarious and humor is ALWAYS welcome!!

5. Toxins - this is also unlikely unless we can determine what killing agent would be specie-specific.

6. Seismic activity - the swarm earthquakes are happening between Guy and Greenbrier Arkansas. This location is about 50 miles from the location where the birds were killed and even farther from where the fish were killed. Again, it doesn't explain why the birds died in Beebe and not up around where the seismic activity actually occurred. However, it IS interesting that the fish deaths, earthquakes, and bird deaths ALL OCCUR IN A STRAIGHT LINE, although this may be completely coincidental.

7. Magnetic anomaly - this is an interesting concept and one that needs to be explored more deeply. That being said, it doesn't explain why only one species of bird and one species of fish would succumb to it. The Arkansas River is full of many species of fish....not to mention all the different species of migratory bird that make Arkansas their winter home. Again, it doesn't add up...

8. EMP - This, I think, is so far fetched that I can't believe someone actually said it. If Iran...or any other hater....is going to do an EMP, I really dont' think they are going to choose BEEBE ARKANSAS. At the very least, they would do it in LA or New York...or even DC. And, if they were going to do it in Arkansas, my guess is they would pick the Chemical Depot at Pine Bluff or even one of the nuclear reactors.....but not a little town that has no strategic value. Furthermore, no one in the town reported any communications disturbances...so that can pretty much rule out this scenario.

9. Prophetic - um....I'm not touching this one.

10. Classified military project - this is my bid. And considering that there is a military base not 20 miles from the site, I think it is very plausible. Is it possible that the military tested some DNA-based weapon on both the fish and the birds?

11. Completely unrelated events - this should be considered too....

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
OK....LET'S REITERATE THE FACTS:

1. 100,000 drum fish die off in Arkansas river around Ozark in a 20 mile stretch
2. 5000 blackbirds die off around midnight on NYE in Beebe in a 1 mile radius
3. Ozark and Beebe are approximately 125 miles from each other.
4. The Arkansas River does NOT go anywhere near Beebe.

Some assumptions can be made:

1. The blackbirds ....
2. Fireworks are unlikely....
3. Lightning is also very....
4. Don't know where....
5. Toxins - this is also .....
6. Seismic activity - the....
7. Magnetic anomaly - this....
8. EMP - This, I think....
9. Prophetic - um....
10. Classified military....
11. Completely unrelated....

edit on 3-1-2011 by CIAGypsy because: (no reason given)

We all know the TRUTH will never be known.... Smells like government!!!

just celebrating the new year with a big bang, besides shuldnt blackbirds be sleepin at midnight?

GWEN
Second
Third
Fourth

I'll admit that the bird deaths and fish kills are odd, and obviously something is going on here. (Thank you, Captain Obvious!). That said, I've got a couple of questions about the blackbird deaths.

First off, can anybody confirm that all the dead birds are the same species? I grew up in southeast Missouri (not far from Arkansas at all, in fact), and more than once, I've heard (and used) "blackbird" as a sort of generic noun for blackbirds, starlings, and assorted other dark-colored birds too small to be crows. Could this be a similar less-than-precise usage?

Second...why would the military be developing a genetically tailored weapon to kill blackbirds? It probably could be done, but I don't think blackbirds are very high on the list of potential enemy threats to the US. Admittedly, I'm going out on a proverbial limb here, but I think we can rule out an *intentional* act by anybody.

reply to post by Pervius
Or the USA military satellite system "bright eyes" which is compatible with the air defense system..
From Military today.

“Some U.S. military satellites are equipped with infra-red sensors that can pick up the heat generated on earth by trucks, airplanes, missiles, and cars, so that even on cloudy days the sensors can penetrate beneath the clouds and reproduce the patterns of heat emission on a TV-type screen. During the Vietnam War sky high infrared sensors were tested which detect individual enemy soldiers walking around on the ground..

reply to post by CIAGypsy


Don't rule out lightning so fast. The birds may not have been electrocuted by lightning, but still may have died because of it. Lightning superheats the air around it, which causes the air to expand at high velocity. As this air expands it pushes cooler air in front of it. This can cause a wave of air similar to a concussion wave from an explosive, which may have caused the death of the birds. There doesn't need to be a thunderstorm to create the lightning (heat lightning) and if there was an overcast it may have not been visible from the ground.

reply to post by CIAGypsy


horse hockey you dont cull birds with posion you do it with dawn dish soap in the winter. in the dead of night on the coldest day you fly over them with a crop duster full of water and dawn dish soap. you spray them the dawn washes all the oils of their feather and bodies hence causing them to freeze to death in the middle of the night. atleast thats how i know of it being done. and truthfully the only birds i know of this being done to is english swallows. they are not natural to america they were brought here by a home sick english bloke in the late 1800's just a pair he said. well they as far as i know are probably the most evasive avians in the country.flocks by the million as the farmers say lol. they tear crops to hell.

I don't know if this was posted somewhere back in the 65 pages of threads....but I wanted to mark it so I can come back to it later.

https://__._/gifiles/docs/19/1950807_wheeler-conspiracy-theory-.html
Wheeler Conspiracy link
wheeler conspiracy theory

https://__._/gifiles/docs/19/1950791_re-wheeler-conspiracy-theory-.html


Quick synopsis of the links -

A shocking report prepared for Prime Minister Putin by the Foreign
Military Intelligence Directorate (GRU) states that one of the United
States top experts in biological and chemical weapons was brutally
murdered after he threatened to expose a US Military test of poison gas
that killed hundreds of thousands of animals in Arkansas this past week.

According to this report, John P. Wheeler III, Special Assistant to the
Secretary of the Air Force, Washington, D.C. from 2005-2008, when he
became the Special Assistant to the Acting Assistant Secretary of the Air
Force for Installations, Logistics and Environment, was found brutally
murdered and dumped in a landfill,

...

Wheeler's military career included writing one of the most important
manuals on the effectiveness of biological and chemical weapons which led
to his being hired in 2009 as a consultant to the Mitre Corporation, whose
aviation system development department, the GRU reports, is at the
forefront of creating the computer command and control systems used by the
US Air Force in their fleet of aerial spraying planes. [photo 2nd left]

These aerial spraying planes, this report continues, are based at the
Little Rock Air Force Base in Arkansas that over the past few months have
been involved with `test dispersants' of poisonous gasses in the
Afghanistan War Theater using chemical weapons stocks obtained from Iraq
and held at the Pine Bluff Arsenal, also located in Arkansas.

...

To the direct reason for Wheeler's murder, this report says, was this past
week's transport of Iraqi Phosgene poisonous gas aboard a US Air Force
KC-767 tanker aircraft from Little Rock Air Force Base enroute to
Afghanistan that shortly after takeoff had a `critical malfunction' of its
aerial spraying computer directed command and control system over central
Arkansas causing the deaths of thousands of red-wing blackbirds.

According to US reports an estimated 5,000 of these birds were killed
outright and were quickly removed by US Environmental Services workers
wearing hazmat suits and gas masks. Another US report states that cause
of death to these thousands of birds was "trauma in the breast tissue,
with blood clots in the body cavity and a lot of internal bleeding" which
this GRU report states is consistent with Phosgene exposure.

Even more chilling than this incident is this GRU report stating that it
was the second "accidental" release of Phosgene poisonous gas in as many
days, as the day before, this same US Air Force KC-767 tanker aircraft
also had a "critical malfunction" causing a release over the Arkansas
River that killed over 100,000 fish.

a reply to: CIAGypsy

So Sorcha Faal is now a Wikileaks source? All those come from Whatdoesitmean.com and the EU Times. They're total BS.

There are two KC-767s in testing, and both are on the ground right now.

Why in gods name would they be carrying a toxic gas in their fuel tanks, instead of, you know, fuel?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: CIAGypsy

So Sorcha Faal is now a Wikileaks source? All those come from Whatdoesitmean.com and the EU Times. They're total BS.

There are two KC-767s in testing, and both are on the ground right now.

Why in gods name would they be carrying a toxic gas in their fuel tanks, instead of, you know, fuel?

I interpreted it to be toxic gas in their aerial spray tanks....not their fuel tank.

However, as I stated in the other thread, I'm not sure I buy this explanation completely...but it bears further research.

It's the fish deaths that bother me most. Why only drum fish and not other animals which would have been more susceptible to the toxins, such as frogs, turtles, etc....?

a reply to: CIAGypsy

They don't have aerial spray tanks. All the fuel transferred through the boom comes from the fuel tanks used by the aircraft in flight.

It's Sorcha Faal though, so you know it's utter BS.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I don't disagree that the story doesn't seem to have any corroboration as far as the GRU report being found anywhere....and the source is dubious. However, there are still some things in the story that are nagging me because of information I can't post publicly of a classified nature.

I think the story has a small grain of truth with a lot of other BS in it. I reached out to a colleague who may know some answers about the planes. He seemed to cast doubt that release being controlled by a computer command. He said that it is possible they were transporting chemicals, rather than fuel...but that the switches are hard-wired and must be broken to be released...i.e. human activated, not computer activated.

The story also indicates that the phosgene gas came from Iraq...at least I think I read that somewhere...and was headed for Afghanistan. Doesn't make sense that they would transport it from Iraq to the US and then back to Afghanistan. However, at one time, there WAS phosgene gas at the Pine Bluff Arsenal not far from the Air Base right by Beebe. But that supply has allegedly been destroyed per disarmament requirements.

a reply to: CIAGypsy

There's always a grain of truth in Sorcha Faal stories. The main event in the story is always something that really happened, the reasons for it are total BS.

Tankers do occasionally transport chemicals, but they're never transported in the tanks. They're always in containers in the cargo hold. They don't put anything potentially corrosive into the fuel tanks.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: CIAGypsy

Tankers do occasionally transport chemicals, but they're never transported in the tanks. They're always in containers in the cargo hold. They don't put anything potentially corrosive into the fuel tanks.

I asked my source specifically about using those planes for aerial spraying. He said yes, but didn't offer up any details....and I didn't pursue it given the classified nature. I asked about the alleged malfunction causing it to "losing its load" in the air. He said that they do dump their loads (typically fuel), but only for an emergency reason and didn't seem to think an unintentional 'dump' would be caused by a computer malfunction for reasons I already stated....especially if they were transporting chemicals rather than fuel.

Two things I want to point out.... #1) I never mentioned what chemicals and he didn't ask. #2) My source does have a sufficient background and experience to know about these planes and their uses, covert or otherwise, BUT he does not typically work in, around, fly, or anything else, etc...the KC-767.

Here's my thoughts...for whatever they are worth at this moment:

1. Don't think what happened in Arkansas, specifically, drove the murder of Wheeler.

2. Don't think there are any active KC-767's at Little Rock AFB. In fact, the Air Force's KC-767A contract was officially canceled by the DoD in January 2006. This incident happened well after that date.

3. I DO think that what happened in Arkansas occurred due to military grade weapons testing.

Not ready to define anything further than that at this point....

Wheeler was going to spill it out...or just said he would.

I agree on the computer glitch....and the same aircraft had an incident the day before? That's the kind of story one puts out there when one is knee deep in doodoo and one is just about to get told on. huh!!

a reply to: CIAGypsy

A few problems there. If it was a tanker, it was probably a KC-135, as those are in Mississippi (LRAFB has C-130s) and the surrounding area. Tankers would make horrible sprayers, as it would be exceedingly obvious they were spraying. The KC-135 fuel dump is through the boom, meaning it would leave a single trail from the back of the aircraft.

That means it would look something like this:



Now if you saw that, it would be instantly obvious it was something weird going on. You might get away with it once or twice, but after that, it would start to be obvious something was going on. Planes don't dump like that for no reason.

The KC-10 would be slightly better, but the best way to hide it would be to use C-130s. They do it all the time, and they're native to the area, so people wouldn't even notice probably.



As for chemicals, it doesn't matter what chemical was used. If they put chemicals into the tanks, they'd have to put the aircraft into fuel cell after every flight and purge the tanks before they could be filled again. And a normal KC-135 can't separate the tanks from each other. The T model can lock out the center wing tanks for other fuels, but there are only a very small number of those flying around. A normal KC-135 would be mixing the chemicals with the fuel being used by the aircraft. They don't even like to put water into the tanks for leak testing, because they have to pull the cells out and replace them if they're not careful about the testing.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: CIAGypsy

A few problems there. If it was a tanker, it was probably a KC-135, as those are in Mississippi (LRAFB has C-130s) and the surrounding area. Tankers would make horrible sprayers, as it would be exceedingly obvious they were spraying. The KC-135 fuel dump is through the boom, meaning it would leave a single trail from the back of the aircraft.

That means it would look something like this:

I agree! And if it was a KC-767...they also use a boom. That wouldn't account for 5000 birds, IMO, unless there was an aerial dispersal.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Now if you saw that, it would be instantly obvious it was something weird going on. You might get away with it once or twice, but after that, it would start to be obvious something was going on. Planes don't dump like that for no reason.

Remember that this happened late at night. No one on the ground who happened to be outside in the area would have likely seen it because it was dark.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
The KC-10 would be slightly better, but the best way to hide it would be to use C-130s. They do it all the time, and they're native to the area, so people wouldn't even notice probably.

Absolutely agree that the aircraft would have been a C-130, if anything. But what bothers me about that is that Little Rock AFB is a premier training school for the C-130s. This means that they get students in there all the time from all over the place... If you were going to do something (possibly nefarious or under the radar) with chemical weapons, you wouldn't do it there... You'd do it at a more secure base with less outside potential of someone who is knowledgeable seeing it... And C-130's don't fly out of Chaffee...so that leaves the plane coming from another base.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
As for chemicals, it doesn't matter what chemical was used. If they put chemicals into the tanks, they'd have to put the aircraft into fuel cell after every flight and purge the tanks before they could be filled again. And a normal KC-135 can't separate the tanks from each other. The T model can lock out the center wing tanks for other fuels, but there are only a very small number of those flying around. A normal KC-135 would be mixing the chemicals with the fuel being used by the aircraft. They don't even like to put water into the tanks for leak testing, because they have to pull the cells out and replace them if they're not careful about the testing.

Again, I agree... This is why I asked my source about the spraying and the chemicals. I would think no matter what plane was used...it is only used for this purpose and this chemical. At least that is what logic states.