still think chemtrails are not real?

And that "story" about the KC-135s leaving a trail on air traffic control is a complete hoax, and anyone who knows how ATC works can spot the problem right away with that story.

Thats the problem with you chemmies, you have no knowledge in any of these areas, and just repost anything you find that falls into your particular view. Is it any wonder Chemmies fall for hoaxes so often?

reply to post by blangger


Yeah, and NORAD tracked Santa Clause last week, also. It really sounds like you want to adopt the logical fallacy of an argument from ignorance. Like, "I don't know anything about it so I must be right." Or the plaintive cry of my son when he was 5, "Daddeeee! It's too hard! I can't do it! Do it for meee!"

reply to post by Stewie


Would it be a productive exchange if his science supported your belief in "chemtrails" rather than offering valid scientific evidence for their virtual impossibility?

Seriously someone gives you science and you respond by telling them you want to discuss what is being sprayed? His science shows you there is nothing to be sprayed. Its like telling a kid there is no such thing as santa or the tooth fairy then having that child sit there and argue with you that there is indeed.

I want to remind everyone that this is what is is like to have a debate with a "chemtrailer"; please keep in mind the chemtrailer is portrayed by the donkey.

reply to post by Dilligaf28

There is absolutely no way that "his" science can prove nothing is being sprayed. I just got back, and haven't read any other replies yet, but I would bet even the poster you referred to would not have said that. But, i could be wrong. If so, we will just have to disagree as I think it is a totally absurd contention.

I am posting the link to some information about the nanoparticles that, according to this author referenced, are in the chemtrails that are being sprayed.
This is another area worth looking into, in my opinion.
curezone.org...

part of

curezone.org...

Also this is interesting.

willthomasonline.net...

Oh another Will Thomas link. Funny how the other link from him, whatever he cooked up about the KC-135s supposedly leaving trails on ATC radar (which would not happen) so Will just came up with this himself, probably for his booksales.

But, instead of thinking about that, you just post another Will thomas article, that is again full of nothing but conjecture, accusations, and unrelated things, along with the photo was was explained years ago, as the icing spray adapter for testing how some planes react when iced up.

Will Thomas was one of the early hoaxers in this, to help promote it to sell things. Him and Leonard Horowitz may have very well cooked up it together, or at least stumbled across it and found a moneymaking idea.

reply to post by Stewie


It's not that much science and a lot of mathematics. I know "chemtrailers" don't understand chemistry, but numbers shouldn't be that hard. You can find all the numbers he gives you, as they are very standardized. Just follow along with the logic of the math.
He's talking about volume, mass, weight, and why all of those have a real life bearing on the whole "chemtrail" theory. The volume, mass and weight prove (yes, standard mathematics is proven) that the assertions you make about "chemtrails" does not work. The volume of a trail would need a particular mass of particles to construct it, and that mass would be a large weight to transport.....more than any one plane can do certainly. And that is just one trail. Multiply (more math, so you don't have to worry) that by every trail pictured daily on YouTube videos and it is even more apparent. And that is just the trails videoed, not the ones just seen and talked about.
Like saying anything is a "chemcloud". You cannot possibly transport and deliver 550 TONS of water for a single cloud without having a dedicated fleet of planes for each cloud.
Math and measurement is a wonderful thing.

reply to post by stars15k

But, yet, you SEE the cloud that is formed by the plane, don't you? So, it is happening. Now, you say it is natural that is expands and persists and people that are reporting aluminum and barium are just mistaken.
I can't believe that you, or anybody else here, actually thinks that I believe that the entire cloud is created by the plane spraying. LOL. What the hell, you guys really don't think through things very well. Talk about a straw man argument.
What next, more pictures of natural cloud formations that look something like a chemtrail?
You can do better, RX rewrite.

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by stars15k

 

But, yet, you SEE the cloud that is formed by the plane, don't you? So, it is happening. Now, you say it is natural that is expands and persists and people that are reporting aluminum and barium are just mistaken.
I can't believe that you, or anybody else here, actually thinks that I believe that the entire cloud is created by the plane spraying. LOL. What the hell, you guys really don't think through things very well. Talk about a straw man argument.
What next, more pictures of natural cloud formations that look something like a chemtrail?
You can do better, RX rewrite.

Umm yes, some of the things reported as chemtrail clouds because they are in rows, have been documented for long before there were ever airplanes.

And if I was go to dig in the yard and analyze the soil, how do I decide what came from airplanes? Apparently from you, its all of it. Apparently to chemmies, any kind of metallic particulate matter must come from airplanes and no place else. Not from industrial sources, not from air pollution, not from dust, not even naturally occuring. Its all airplanes.

Just a quick question :

How many ATS Members witness chemtrails on a regular basis (in their area) ?


Second Question:

How often do you witness chemtrails/grid formation/spraying in your area?


Note:
Requesting ONLY ATS Members who witness chemtrails on a regular basis (in their area) to respond/reply

reply to post by Ellen15


i do where i am at in newmexico 5 times a week.

Originally posted by Dilligaf28
reply to post by Stewie

 

Would it be a productive exchange if his science supported your belief in "chemtrails" rather than offering valid scientific evidence for their virtual impossibility?

Seriously someone gives you science and you respond by telling them you want to discuss what is being sprayed? His science shows you there is nothing to be sprayed. Its like telling a kid there is no such thing as santa or the tooth fairy then having that child sit there and argue with you that there is indeed.

I want to remind everyone that this is what is is like to have a debate with a "chemtrailer"; please keep in mind the chemtrailer is portrayed by the donkey.

Twice you used the phrase, "his science." I don't own it. I only borrow it from time to time to help see and think more clearly. The plane and solid geometry belongs to Thales of Miletus and Pythagoras and Euclid and Archimedes. The optics comes from Euclid (although he missed the mark a little with that "rays from the eyes" stuff), Ptolomy, Newton, and Anton van Leeuwenhoek. The science of the trigonometrically derived subtended angle comes from Hipparchus. The science of visual acuity comes from Donders and Bowman and von Helmholz and von Graefe. The science of molecular mass comes from, among others, John Dalton and Jöns Jakob Berzelius. The science of stoichiometric combustion is from Jeremias Benjaim Richter.
I guess the chemtrailers rely on the "sciece of Will Thomas and Youtube. So there you have it.

Does anybody know how many refueling tankers (KC-135) we have in operation? Are you aware that a contract was recently awarded to Northrop/Eads to build 600 KC-45A replacement planes?
Yes, 600.

Well, what happens is there is a 'white' project which is created , sometimes a front company. For instance in chemtrails, one of the 'white' cover programs is the brand new 'KC-45A' aerial refueling tanker. If you listen to the radio or read the newspaper you have probably heard about this. Northrop/EADS and Boeing are in a cutthroat bidding war and the knives are out for SIX HUNDRED 'refueling' aircraft. SIX HUNDRED! You think our Air Force needs six hundred refueling aircraft? On top of the several hundred KC-135s? We only have twenty-five hundred total planes!! Think about it! This is obviously the 'white' program cover for the one of the many 'black' chemtrails spraying programs, because this project is VAST.

curezone.org...

Now, obviously this writer believes something is up, and I am inclined to agree. While Detroit goes to hell, and people lose their homes and jobs, the air force is building 600 refuelers. For what?

reply to post by Stewie


As of last year, Air Mobility Command had 415 and Reserve and Guard units had another 235. www.af.mil... The last one was delivered by Boeing in 1965. Most 135s are now older than the guys flying them. Each 135 can carry 200,000 pounds of offloadable fuel. That works out to about 25,000 gallons of water or 30,000 gallons of jet fuel. A 135 can pump out a little less than 1000 gallons of jet fuel/minurte from the boom. So, in zero wind conditiopns it could pump fuel outs from a point directly overhead to one horizoan at 40,000 feet. Of course, because of droplet size(1.0-1.2mm), transparency and evaporation rate, you wouldn't be able to see it from the ground

We are getting SLAMMED in south Florida right now.

I canNOT believe what these people are doing to MY sky and......no one seems to notice (until I start snapping photos). There are no less than 10 WHITE planes criss-crossing at around 25,000 feet------ clouding up the skies.

I don't have a damn USB cord nor internet on my cell but I am beyond having to prove this to anyone anymore. It's obvious and it's an outrage.


Now, I have a question. Do planes have to check in with local air traffic control towers?
These planes are flying right above West Palm Beach International airport (and have been for nearly 2 hours now) so do you think the tower has information on them or, if they ARE governmental, are they exempt?

These bastards are creating clouds. That is their SOLE purpose. They are not going anywhere. These are NOT, I repeat NOT regular passenger planes so all you WeedWhackers, spare me. This is not about how you thinking they're contrails. Again, I am way past that stupid lame senseless argument!

Please...anyone in south east Florida near the coast, PLEASE go check your skies RIGHT NOW!!!!

Originally posted by Stewie
Does anybody know how many refueling tankers (KC-135) we have in operation? Are you aware that a contract was recently awarded to Northrop/Eads to build 600 KC-45A replacement planes?
Yes, 600.

Well, what happens is there is a 'white' project which is created , sometimes a front company. For instance in chemtrails, one of the 'white' cover programs is the brand new 'KC-45A' aerial refueling tanker. If you listen to the radio or read the newspaper you have probably heard about this. Northrop/EADS and Boeing are in a cutthroat bidding war and the knives are out for SIX HUNDRED 'refueling' aircraft. SIX HUNDRED! You think our Air Force needs six hundred refueling aircraft? On top of the several hundred KC-135s? We only have twenty-five hundred total planes!! Think about it! This is obviously the 'white' program cover for the one of the many 'black' chemtrails spraying programs, because this project is VAST.

curezone.org...

Now, obviously this writer believes something is up, and I am inclined to agree. While Detroit goes to hell, and people lose their homes and jobs, the air force is building 600 refuelers. For what?

Wow, wow wow. See, anytime you try to comment on anything aviation related, you are clueless beyond belief. You know absolutely nothing about what you are writing, could you actually try to learn something that is not posted on a conspiracy or chemtrail webpage.

No, EADS was not awarded a contract for 600 tankers. Thats chemmie disinformation you are spreading, it was for a far fewer number, and the contract was cancelled and going to be for rebidding. And its eventually replace the KC-135s, since some of those planes date from the 1950s and 1960s. Yes, there are planes over 50 years old that are flying as tankers.

But hey, tell us how it is 600 ordered, give us proof, if you can and prove me wrong.

How does one so utterly ignorant of anything with clouds, airplanes, aviation, weather and it shows everytime to try to post anything besides a youtube link or will thomas webpage. I knew more about this stuff when I was 10 years old..

reply to post by Human_Alien


More statements and claims without anything to back yourself up. Not even a picture. My grandchildren have digital cameras, purchased for them because they are cheap enough right now to not cause a major event if lost or broken. Really, Walmart, Target, all have them for around $10.

Not that you will want to do that, because then you would still have to make some silly statement about how you can tell chemical content by the look alone.
Your logic, gut, reasoning skills, knowledge, and assertions are all wrong. Until you prove otherwise. Which you, nor anybody else who lets the belief of "chemtrails" spark a synapse has yet to do. Continued lack of empirical information for the everchanging, still not agreed upon, timeline of "chemtrail theory". If you would just learn with understanding about clouds, you would be much better informed.

reply to post by Human_Alien



>sigh< I guess you haven't seen any of my many, many informative posts on this??

10 WHITE planes criss-crossing at around 25,000 feet------

How do you know their altitudes?? (Don't worry, instructions will be offrred below).

But, you are likely part correct, since they're making contrails, then they are AT LEAST 25,000 feet, and above.
Oh, and they aren't "all" white!! Sheesh, I have to explain this each time? You are seeing them from below, and from over 6 miles away. Where the color, the painted airline logo, usually? (Hint: Not on the bottoms).

Now, I have a question. Do planes have to check in with local air traffic control towers?

NO. WHy would they, when they're passing by at over 25,000 feet? Do you know anything at all about how the AIr Traffic Control System works? I'll try to fin d a simple link, for below.....but, meantime....the "local control towers"? The word local should be a big clue, you wrote it. The Airport Traffic Area (also known as "Class D Airspace")...and in years past, was referred to as the "Control Zone", is gnerally a cylinder of airspace, about 5 statue miles in radius, and up to 3,000 feet overhead. Exact hrizontal dimensions will vary, depending on the specific airport, instrument landing approach corridors, and proximity to other facilities.

So, NO....airliners and other jets at high altitudes do NOT contact the local control towers.

These planes are flying right above West Palm Beach International ....

Good! Some information....let's go to the maps......

...first, hopefully it's back working (was down over the New Year), FlightAware:

flightaware.com...

Clickity clickity on that....I've linked directly to your area, the airport ICAO identifier uysed is "KPBI" (The "K" is added in formnt of most airports in the USA that you're familar with their three-letter airline codes).

(I'm still getting a blank screen, where there should be "live" flight information. Might be my connection. It uses a lot of bandwidth).

IF the screen comes up, you can navigate on it to learn about the airplnes flying over your area....zoom in, out expand the size, click on targets to get airline, type, altitude, speed and departure/destination cities.

I'v e found that the data (it is fed form the actuall FAA ATRCC and TRACON radar facilities and computers) undergoes a slight time delay, by the time it is processed and displayed at FlightAware...about 5 - 8 minutes. So, keep that in mind when you're outside "planespotting", and comparing the real-live in the sky to what's on the FlightAware screen on the computer.

You watch, and LEARN long enough, and the picture will be clear....you are seeing NORMAL airliners making contrails....at cruise altitudes.

OK, now more....the weather conditions, form weatehr balloon (radiosonde) readings. For that, we go here:

weather.uwyo.edu...

OK? Look for Florida, it's easy to spot.....hover over it, and well....here's Tampa Bay info:

weather.uwyo.edu...

300 Mb is equal to about 30,000 feet. Look at the data, the Relative Humidity column. See it?

THAT is why there are contrails today.

Look at the Appleman Chart, to plot the info, and predict contrails:

asd-www.larc.nasa.gov...


Finally....you DO realize that airplanes fly OVERHEAD your area, without stopping in to say "Hello", correct? Can you think of all the many, many cities that they might leave from , and fly to? (Hint: Don't forget International destinations...)

One more resource to LEARN from:

skyvector.com...

Type your airport code, upper left corner. Look for the tab "Enroute H-8". Clickity click it.

THAT is the High-Altitude Navigation Chart...all those lines are routes in the air, that are often followed by the jets, as they travel to and fro. Sometimes, jets also go "off-route", for various reasons too...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's that link to an ATC information site.....includes some video, for those who find them more informative:

science.howstuffworks.com...

iii high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems
iv plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons
vi strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons



WTC 7 was brought down by explosives

WTC towers 1 and 2 were not, I dont care what Stephen Jones, the truth movement, ATS, and all the experts on the planet say on the matter.

The truth of the matter is not contingent on what you think you know, what you know you know, whether you believe or not believe. TRUTH just sits there and smiles at you...I dont care if you have an IQ of 1 million and taught physics for 5000 years at MIT

Now, I have a question. Do planes have to check in with local air traffic control towers?

No, why would a plane flying at 35000 ft or so need to check in with an airport it is flying miles and miles over. It would be on center approach frequencies.

That was another silly part of that hoax story from Will Thomas that you posted. And that was one of the give aways that it was a piece of fiction, and you totally fell for it. But again, you would never say that Will Thomas does "disinfo", but me point out where he is wrong, that to you is disinfo.