still think chemtrails are not real?

If the post has been 404 d or something
we wont be able to access it
, however its in ur cache and u can relook at it is probably the answer to him being able to view it and we cant. (possible answer to dilema.

Speaking as a former die-hard 'chemtrailer',

The main problem with chemtrailers, is that they refuse to acknowledge or even look into evidence that goes against their theories. I know that was the case with myself. Like many of you... I latched on to all these "proofs"... 'CONTRAILS DON'T PERSIST, PERIOD!!!'. Well, they do. 'CHEMTRAILS DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE THE LATE 90'S' Well contrails did. 'THE WEATHERMAN POINTED THEM OUT IN A VIDEO!' Yes, chaff exists. 'BUT THEY ARE FORMING GRIDS AND X PATTERNS!!' Thats how air traffic works. 'THEY DO IT RIGHT IN YOUR FACE DURING THE DAY, THAT WAY NOBODY WILL SUSPECT HOW EVIL IT IS' I figured they didn't 'spray' at night for this reason. Until I realized there are trails at night.

Chemtrailers rely on a VERY,very small handful of anecdotes, youtube videos, and horrible Anne Heche movies... and ignore the wealth of actual scientific evidence that conflicts with their view.

I ran the youtube page OklahomaChemtrails. Embarassingly enough, I preemptively blocked users like stars15k who I knew would throw evidence at me that I didn't want to hear. I cringe when I think of my videos, and me saying "oh its another one of those white jets! (as if I could have any idea at the heights they were at), or "he's way under 30,0000 feet!" (as if I could in ANY way measure his height). I have a friend that I turned on to this stuff, and its really sad to hear him talk of HAARP, etc every time it rains or a plane flies by. It kills me that I passed my paranoia on to him.

I'm not going to make fun of chemtrailers. I just think you all need to really look into both sides of things, because I'm quite sure you don't. I know cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable, but its well worth your time. Besides the whole fact that TPTB have a whole arsenal of more effective and clandestine ways to attack us, if thats what they want to do.

p.s. I have a size Large "Chemtrails- Eyes to the Skies!" shirt you can have for ten bucks

reply to post by Human_Alien


Thats false association Human Alien. Just because something happened in the past does not prove that a similar event is occurring now. As for your claims to not debate but to enlighten I find that very interesting. Are you so closed off to hearing other people's views that you are refusing to debate and will hold to your opinions despite whatever proof may come your way? That is not a proper way to deny ignorance Human Alien. I can think of other groups that have held to their beliefs rather than listen to scientific fact and have even went to so far as to burn those very scientists at the stake for telling the truth. Out of curiosity you wouldn't happen to feel I am a heretic for questioning your viewpoint would you?

The simple truth is there is not a single piece of scientific evidence that "chemtraisl" are anything other than an irrational fallacy.

reply to post by naught

I take some issue with your characterizations of "chemtrailers", like you once were.
Not everyone buys wholesale into a conspiracy, and become a soldier of "truth" without knowing what the truth is. This is not much different than fighting wars because it feels right, neglecting to put yourself in the place of the enemy you fight and kill.
Many of us are only defending the position that something is being sprayed, we don't exactly know what. We are joined by many credible professionals worldwide in looking for answers, and many of us never claimed we had them, although some do. I remain a skeptic of those that claim they do know, but I hold out the possibility they may know. I don't doubt, however, that something is being sprayed. I am not blind, I have lived a long time and I have painted landscapes for at least 40 years. Yes, 40 years.
It is not a measure of whether something is occurring based upon whether you can prove it here on ATS. I have brought more than reasonable evidence that something is happening, as have many others, only to have it ridiculed by anonymous members who pretend (without any credentials of their own other than their anonymous word) that it is not credible.
And I am supposed to join them in their refusal to look at what evidence others have gathered? I think not.
Those that deceive us are known liars, and there is ample evidence of the fact that they have and will continue to do so when large sums of money are at stake. Look for that connection, and you may not have to ride along in a plane spraying the atmosphere with nano-particles to be convinced that something is, indeed, UP.

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by naught

 

Those that deceive us are known liars, and there is ample evidence of the fact that they have and will continue to do so when large sums of money are at stake. Look for that connection, and you may not have to ride along in a plane spraying the atmosphere with nano-particles to be convinced that something is, indeed, UP.

Here again is a false association at work. Notice how "those that deceive us are known liars" is a very vague statement in terms of both who is deceiving and what the deception is. Not only are we not told whom is deceiving us and about what the deception is; we are then told that this vague statement provides validity for the existence of "chemtrails" through an illogical and irrational association.

And I am supposed to join them in their refusal to look at what evidence others have gathered? I think not.

Are you supposed to exclude any evidence that doesn't support your theory and only look at what reinforces your view point or should you be looking at all the available evidence?

reply to post by gateway30


Hi there,

Looked up that Bill and it does not match this same bill that was redirected from the Thomas site..Link to Bill

Not sure how official that bill is or perhaps I'm doing something wrong however the letters and numbers to match up...

reply to post by Dilligaf28

Who are you addressing your comments to? Who are "us"?
My statement that we have and continue to be deceived does not validate chemtrails, it was never intended to. It merely means that we should look elsewhere for truth, than from those that have been known to deceive us.
Why would a meteorologist or a weatherman or a pilot be an authority on a top secret project? The only authorities are those that are aware of the project, and the specifics of the project. In the past, we the public have been subjected to all sorts of experiments without our knowledge or consent, and have been lied to about it. Is that clear enough for you?
Defending my right to believe is not the same as proving they exist. Don't look for clever, nefarious tactics by me to get you to believe something that I do. Unlike those that believe it is all just contrails, I will pursue what I believe to be the path to the truth.
And defend others like me, when need be.

reply to post by vermonster


I watch this and that one rep/congressman (what ever he was) said it all. Who is the one to stop a rich person from doing this. That is the key because a gov can not do this globally but there are no rules about a private corporation from doing this.

Look up who is in charge of gmo in the private sector and that is the one who the mob should go after.

For starters:

Patrick Moore left Greenpeace because he said they had other agendas that have little to do with saving earth(minnesotafarm.wordpress.com...).
Who is in charge now? I don't know who but they need to be stopped!

reply to post by vermonster


Over here in Illinois close to Wis border they spray a lot and turn clear sky's into haze, after a long day of spraying. they set into uniform sections. also spraying from horizon to horizon.

A news report claims that they spray heavy metals and barium in the chemtrails.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by naught
Speaking as a former die-hard 'chemtrailer',

The main problem with chemtrailers, is that they refuse to acknowledge or even look into evidence that goes against their theories. I know that was the case with myself. Like many of you... I latched on to all these "proofs"... 'CONTRAILS DON'T PERSIST, PERIOD!!!'. Well, they do. 'CHEMTRAILS DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE THE LATE 90'S' Well contrails did. 'THE WEATHERMAN POINTED THEM OUT IN A VIDEO!' Yes, chaff exists. 'BUT THEY ARE FORMING GRIDS AND X PATTERNS!!' Thats how air traffic works. 'THEY DO IT RIGHT IN YOUR FACE DURING THE DAY, THAT WAY NOBODY WILL SUSPECT HOW EVIL IT IS' I figured they didn't 'spray' at night for this reason. Until I realized there are trails at night.

Chemtrailers rely on a VERY,very small handful of anecdotes, youtube videos, and horrible Anne Heche movies... and ignore the wealth of actual scientific evidence that conflicts with their view.

I ran the youtube page OklahomaChemtrails. Embarassingly enough, I preemptively blocked users like stars15k who I knew would throw evidence at me that I didn't want to hear. I cringe when I think of my videos, and me saying "oh its another one of those white jets! (as if I could have any idea at the heights they were at), or "he's way under 30,0000 feet!" (as if I could in ANY way measure his height). I have a friend that I turned on to this stuff, and its really sad to hear him talk of HAARP, etc every time it rains or a plane flies by. It kills me that I passed my paranoia on to him.

I'm not going to make fun of chemtrailers. I just think you all need to really look into both sides of things, because I'm quite sure you don't. I know cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable, but its well worth your time. Besides the whole fact that TPTB have a whole arsenal of more effective and clandestine ways to attack us, if thats what they want to do.

p.s. I have a size Large "Chemtrails- Eyes to the Skies!" shirt you can have for ten bucks

edit on 31-12-2010 by naught because: OCD

edit on 31-12-2010 by naught because: (no reason given)

I believe they started around 95-96 right? or that's at least when they started getting heavy and noticeable

If you really want proof about the existence of this technology you don't have to look hard. Below is a link to a copy of the patent. While the patent relates to the use of the technology to reduce global warming the company that the patent is assigned to tells a different story.

Patent Here

The aircraft company that filed the patent, Hughes, is a major US airospace and defence contractor that manufactured things like the Hercules and galileo spacecraft. The companies assets were sold to GM in '85 who then sold it to Raytheon which is where things get really interesting.

Raytheon was founded by Vannenar Bush. If you don't know who that is then his bio (link below) will make for interesting reading as Bush was the leading man in the US who brought applications of science to warfare. He is credited with such things as the atomic bomb, the manhatten project and being the director of the Majestic 12. You name it, he was probably involved in it, here is the link -

vbush

Now that you are convinced that the technology is real, what can the military possibly want with it? What could they do with it? It takes a bit of research but I think the answer can be found in the discoveries made by Wilhelm Reich. He invented the Cloudbuster which then lead him to the discovery of Orgone atmospheric energy. At this point, the US government went after him, destroying all his research in what is described as one of the worst acts of censorship in US history. He was thrown in jail where he died of a heart attack a short time later. His discovery was apparently too much for the world to handle at the time. Here is a little word from Wilhelm but I suggest you research him and all the above info further and make your own conclusions.

Wilhelm

For Aussies on ats you would remember a certain politician (hint - he is also a former ceo of golman suchs) that was taken to task for providing $10mil in research funding to a mate for a new rain making technology. This technology is apparently very similar to Wilhelm Reichs Cloudbuster. Another interesting fact is that the Chairman and major shareholder of Australian Rain Corporation, the company that received the funding, is the rich nephew of Rupert Murdoch.

The mind boggles.

OK I`ll believe if you can tell me a couple of things: Where are all these planes flying from? Where are the trainloads of chemicals (and there must be trainloads or convoys of trucks) entering an airbase? Must be thousands of gallons of this stuff allegedly being used every day. Who is manufacturing it? Where are all the spare planes and their crews?

reply to post by exroyalnavy


As it says in the patent, the materials are added to jet fuel.

reply to post by naught


You are so full of crap its not funny...the amount of these trails in the skies has lately ballooned out of control, and were not noticed by any skywatchers till 10-15 years ago.

If they did happen before it was a rare occurrence indeed , and now they happen so much that i cannot see the freaking sky...light pollution has nothing on this stuff, try looking for stars at night or blue sky during the day, almost never happens.

Hell nobody saw them at all hardly ever, air traffic has not gone up thousands of times since 1998.

No matter what facts you have that are accurate... the strange manner in which they suddenly and completely have taken over the skies is very suspect at the very least.

Almost as if the planes are being told at VERY LEAST...to fly at the exact height that would cause contrails...very strange indeed.

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by Dilligaf28

 

Who are you addressing your comments to? Who are "us"?
My statement that we have and continue to be deceived does not validate chemtrails, it was never intended to. It merely means that we should look elsewhere for truth, than from those that have been known to deceive us.
Why would a meteorologist or a weatherman or a pilot be an authority on a top secret project? The only authorities are those that are aware of the project, and the specifics of the project. In the past, we the public have been subjected to all sorts of experiments without our knowledge or consent, and have been lied to about it. Is that clear enough for you?
Defending my right to believe is not the same as proving they exist. Don't look for clever, nefarious tactics by me to get you to believe something that I do. Unlike those that believe it is all just contrails, I will pursue what I believe to be the path to the truth.
And defend others like me, when need be.

In other words, we will ignore any information that does not agree with our conspiracy, we will discard and and all fact that do not fit out delusion, and we will avoid any actual experts in fields that could be of help.

If it was a top secret project, then how would chemtrailers know about it then? You are all so clueless, that everyone of you has a different idea of it, its just whatever your feelings are about it.

You can believe whatever you want to, but multiple times you have posted things you had not the slighest clue about, and then when questioned about it, either you disappear, or just call people government agents. Funny how to chemtrailers, knowledge is a bad thing.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by naught

 

You are so full of crap its not funny...the amount of these trails in the skies has lately ballooned out of control, and were not noticed by any skywatchers till 10-15 years ago.

If they did happen before it was a rare occurrence indeed , and now they happen so much that i cannot see the freaking sky...light pollution has nothing on this stuff, try looking for stars at night or blue sky during the day, almost never happens.

Hell nobody saw them at all hardly ever, air traffic has not gone up thousands of times since 1998.

No matter what facts you have that are accurate... the strange manner in which they suddenly and completely have taken over the skies is very suspect at the very least.

Almost as if the planes are being told at VERY LEAST...to fly at the exact height that would cause contrails...very strange indeed.

You mean you did not notice them, until you read a chemtrail website, and then you began to look because it was suggested to you. Yes, contrails have been around, and long contrails too. Its this chemmie urban legend that it is something recent, and you believe that just because a chemmie website says so.

There were plenty of trails before 98, you just never thought about it then

reply to post by firepilot

Firepilot, you must either have a thin skin, or a serious problem with me personally.
Reread my post. It should not be offensive to you, and it was not addressed to you. It should not be a problem for you if people choose to look beyond your posts for the truth, or at my posts for encouragement seeking the truth.

reply to post by stars15k


Actually there are two names that you posted that had nothing to do with 2977.

# Dr. Carol Rosin
# Alfred Webre

I am not doubting any experience these two have in this field, but I do have to question Mr.Webre and his praising of a known hoaxer we all know here on ATS and that would be a Mr. Jaime Maussan. One as to wonder what is real and what is not, that's my opinion on the matter. Keep up the good work in all of these chemtrail threads it becomes funny to watch people back pedal on the issue.

reply to post by Stewie


Interesting,

It should not be a problem for you if people choose to look beyond your posts for the truth, or at my posts for encouragement seeking the truth.

Please enlighten me with where and how I can find the truth you speak of? And please be able to back up any claim you are going to make.

Originally posted by gateway30
reply to post by mydarkpassenger

 

have you seen what in the world are they spraying?

I have.
Now unfortunately, that documentary dis-informs in easily verifiable ways.
The fulcrum of it's argument resides in a 2008 analysis of rainwaters which yielded AN ALLEGED 6.8 parts per million of ALUMINUM. Problem is the reporters misinterpreted the data which actually found Barium present at 68 part per BILLION. Barium, unlike Aluminum does not interact with biology and that concentration is what can be expected to occur naturally. Now, even if the figures had shown density for Aluminum, it would again, have been entirely within normal concentrations...

So, simple misunderstanding? Not really!
This documentary was made in 2010, 2 years after the study's results were corrected publicly.

This documentary is either totally ,dangerously irresponsible, in it's failure to verify it's sources or deliberately made to dis-inform.