The largest Masonic Temple in the World....

That is some beautiful architecture, I do not know a lot about the Freemasons but the building alone would make a nice visit if they allow people inside. A lot of this beautiful Gothic esque architecture is disappearing in the states.

reply to post by SirKnightE


I'm taking a trip to Detroit this Thursday. I will be taking LOTS of pictures for my personal albums. If this Temple is in danger of being shut down, I would like to visit it once before this happens. It's a short journey from where I'm at in Indiana to Detroit, so i feel compelled to make it.

Just thought a few of you here may be interested.

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by AtticusNoble


I've been a freemason for only a short time and just went through the Scottish Rite degrees this fall (32nd degree now) and I can honestly say that I haven't felt led by the Holy Spirit to leave the lodge nor the fraternity. I've prayed a good deal with my wife about it and I trust her sensitivity to God when mine may not be attuned like hers.

The "Holy Spirit" is described simply as "the spirit of truth". How can you have any 'sense of truth' when you take a blind oath and are required to give your highest allegiance to a group before you are allowed to join and before you are allowed to even know anything about the workings of the organization. That is not above board. If you cannot be told what the rituals mean or why you must pledge a blood oath before knowing exactly what you are agreeing to----then there is no truth in it.

As was already mentioned we are repeating the oaths, so we definitely have the opportunity to decline. What's more, one could go through the first degree and decline to pursue the Fellowcraft degree or the Master Mason degree. During the degrees you are prompted NUMEROUS times with the question, "is this of your own free will and accord?" You only proceed and take the oaths if you're okay with it.

Again, bottom line is if God convicts me I'll walk away immediately.

reply to post by AtticusNoble

Don't waste your breath, Atticus. Non-Masons who have never experienced the degrees, sat in lodge, or studied the ritual ALWAYS know more than Masons do about such things.

Go see the Detroit Temple quickly. The Shrine and the Scottish Rite stupidly fled to the suburbs a few years ago, leaving the handful of lodges left to support the building. It is in a horrible neighborhood, with a truly scary apartment building next to the parking lot. Michael Illitch had a contract to bring theatre shows, but bailed over the summer. The utilities alone will kill the place this year. They are truly hanging by a thread.

The largest Masonic temple in the world is in Detroit, Michigan. The temple opened in 1926, just a few years before the Great Depression began. Now, the massive auditorium is primarily used as a concert venue called The Masonic.
Across the street from Freemasons Hall, you can see several of the regalia shops that cater to London Masons. These shops sell Masonic books, aprons, keepsakes and trinkets as well as the formal attire required for certain meetings.

i find i am very interested in ancient building very much especially Gothic architecture and ancient chinese architecture it is a great fun to visit these places
what i worry about is that many ancient building have disappeared because of damage

Originally posted by Alethea

Are you given the words of the oath in advance? Or is it something you repeat piecemeal without prior knowledge of the words, language and/or implications?

Originally posted by AtticusNoble

As was already mentioned we are repeating the oaths, so we definitely have the opportunity to decline.

That does not answer the question.
Is the particulars of the oath discussed with you openly before the ritual takes place?
Do you know the details of everything you will be agreeing to and have time to consider each word of the oath before the oath ceremony takes place?
When you do actually hear the words of the oath for the first time---is it when you are repeating it back a half sentence at a time?

reply to post by Alethea


if you are one of those paranoid people who trusts nobody, you can Google them years in advance. I suppose only someone who had a very low attention span would need to study them before hearing them. They are a few sentences. Much like these. How long did it take you to comprehend my message?

The key to reading comprehension is to read EVERY word though. Some like to deceive by posting only portions in order to make them sound evil. But truth be known, if you aren't smart enough to understand our oaths, we would rather not have you in our fraternity. It takes a good bit of effort to make it through our degrees.

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by Alethea

Are you given the words of the oath in advance? Or is it something you repeat piecemeal without prior knowledge of the words, language and/or implications?

Originally posted by AtticusNoble

As was already mentioned we are repeating the oaths, so we definitely have the opportunity to decline.

That does not answer the question.
Is the particulars of the oath discussed with you openly before the ritual takes place?
Do you know the details of everything you will be agreeing to and have time to consider each word of the oath before the oath ceremony takes place?
When you do actually hear the words of the oath for the first time---is it when you are repeating it back a half sentence at a time?

I knew I had the option of reading the oaths in advance online. I chose not to. Hearing them and being offered the chance to proceed or simply stop and leave was more than enough.

I'm not sure what your experience with being led by the Holy Spirit is, but I believe He would have directed me to never even apply for membership, much less actually show up to the initiation if it were harmful. Perhaps you don't believe God leads us in such a frank manner. I do. My wife and I are living examples of how God can lead us. The bible tells us that the "steps of a righteous man are ordered of God." I honestly and fully believe this.

Do you believe that as well?

Originally posted by AtticusNoble


I knew I had the option of reading the oaths in advance online. I chose not to.

Then it was a blind oath if you chose not to be informed of its contents beforehand.

Originally posted by AtticusNoble
I'm not sure what your experience with being led by the Holy Spirit is, but I believe He would have directed me to never even apply for membership,

The Holy Spirit is a HE? Wow. That's not my experience. And to say HE directed you to apply for membership? How did HE do this? Did HE visit you personally? If things don't go so good, will it be HIS fault for pushing you into it? Gee, here we go with scapegoating again. You can't just say that YOU yourself wanted to join because the networking looked like something lucrative and offered benefits and advantages?

Originally posted by AtticusNoble
Perhaps you don't believe God leads us in such a frank manner.

Which "god" is this? There are so many! There is no god that leads me. Our Creators (not a man made god) gave mankind dominion over the earth and stepped out of the picture. There is no god that directs anyone's life---only the superstition of their own making which leads them to claim that "god" gives them such personal attention. Take responsibility for the decisions you are making. I suppose when you do bad things, you say the "Devil" lead you to do that, huh?

reply to post by Alethea


so.......you are just looking for a fight. Just so you know, we as humans actually don't KNOW anything. We hope we are correct in our beliefs, but we won't know for sure until we die. So you can step down off the high horse for now. If you don't want to take an oath, then don't. Masonry has this really cool clause stating it must be of your own free will and accord. So if you don't want to do it, you don't do it. Simple as that. And until you do it, you will have no idea of what actually happens during the process.

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by AtticusNoble


I knew I had the option of reading the oaths in advance online. I chose not to.

Then it was a blind oath if you chose not to be informed of its contents beforehand.

Originally posted by AtticusNoble
I'm not sure what your experience with being led by the Holy Spirit is, but I believe He would have directed me to never even apply for membership,

The Holy Spirit is a HE? Wow. That's not my experience. And to say HE directed you to apply for membership? How did HE do this? Did HE visit you personally? If things don't go so good, will it be HIS fault for pushing you into it? Gee, here we go with scapegoating again. You can't just say that YOU yourself wanted to join because the networking looked like something lucrative and offered benefits and advantages?

Originally posted by AtticusNoble
Perhaps you don't believe God leads us in such a frank manner.

Which "god" is this? There are so many! There is no god that leads me. Our Creators (not a man made god) gave mankind dominion over the earth and stepped out of the picture. There is no god that directs anyone's life---only the superstition of their own making which leads them to claim that "god" gives them such personal attention. Take responsibility for the decisions you are making. I suppose when you do bad things, you say the "Devil" lead you to do that, huh?

My apologies; I assumed (erroneously) from your earlier posts that you were a Christian. I see that's not the case. I didn't join for networking reasons. I joined because I was looking for fraternity and because I felt I could learn something. I have. I've also enjoyed the charity work.

And I can assure you, when I do bad things I don't blame ANYTHING on the devil. My own sinful nature is where the sole responsibility falls for my actions when I fail. If I find that my Masonic affiliation has been a mistake I will leave the lodge. My status as a Mason is pretty far down on my list actually - I'm first and foremost a Christian. I'm a husband (19 years). I'm a father of 2 girls. I'm a med student who plans on serving as a family physician in a rural or underserved setting. And somewhere down the line after these things I happen to be a Mason as well.

reply to post by AtticusNoble


your priorities are in good shape.

for what it's worth, you seem to have a better idea about it than a lot of people.