Florida about to have "no refusal" checkpoints

reply to post by Intelearthling


So no right to legal council?

You were spouting off stereotypes and that is where your igronance lies.

I am done here so happy new year.

It's coming up on amature night, we have had no refusal nights in Houston for years. Take a cab if you're out and drinking. I don't agree with the plan but I know when I get a buzz on I don't want to drive. Jail food is awful and I like to shower alone unless my GF is here. There will be a Judge present, sworn testimony from the LEO and a warrent signed.

Harris County leads the nation I think in DWI accidents. Just plan ahead and use just a little bit of you brain and not be stupid. I lost my wife to a drunk driver and yes I have done it but I took back roads late at night. MADD can kiss my --- I learned and don't do that any more.

reply to post by TKDRL

I disagree. The root cause of drunk driving is having really crappy friends. I am sure every single one of us has seen someone drunk off their ass, proclaiming they are fine. People with really crappy friends will get into their car and drive away, people with good friends would not. People with good friends, their friends would fight them for the keys. Been on both sides of that equation.

There is a "Root Cause" and the Greedy Powers That Be are behind it. As you state "Crappy Friends" are part of it. But there is a much bigger cause.

The transformation of US society into a "everyone for himself mentality" was planned. This transformation ripped the support system out from under people. Lost of our support system and cultural feed back has cause a steep rise in Drugs and Alcoholism. Increased poverty and a high unemployment/under employment rate adds substanially to the problem. I have lived through this change and seen with my own eyes the disintegration of US society.

Mexico and India have been the recent target of a similar attack. 75% of the farming families in Mexico were wiped out since NAFTA was implemented. These bankrupt families head to the cities in hopes of finding a job. As Farmers are bankrupted, those who supported the farmers in rural communities also go broke and flee to the city compounding the problem. Meanwhile food prices rise and those in the cities RIOT.

The graph of Americans incarcerated between 1020 and 2006 shows a sudden steep rise that supports Nicole's article. Rural families are forced into the cities swelling the number of people in the labor market. A recession hits and we see a major rise in incarcerations and the rate just keeps on increasing.

...This transformation was the result of organized plans developed by a group of highly powerful " though unelected " financial and industrial executives who wanted to drastically change agricultural practices in the US to better serve their collective corporate financial agenda... CED has influenced US domestic policies in much the same way that the CFR has influenced the nation's foreign policies....

...A report published in 1962 entitled "An Adaptive Program for Agriculture" is even more blunt in its objectives, leading Time Magazine to remark that CED had a plan for fixing the identified problem: "The essential fact to be faced, argues CED, is that with present high levels farm productivity, more labor is involved in agriculture production that the market demands " in short, there are too may farmers. To solve that problem, CED offers a program with three main prongs."

..CED members were influential in business, government, and agricultural colleges, and their outlook shaped both governmental policies and what farmers were taught. Farmers found themselves encouraged to give up on a farming system that employed minimal outsourced inputs and capital and get "efficient" by adopting instead a system that required they go into debt in order to purchase ever more costly inputs, like fossil-fuel based fertilizers, chemicals, seeds, feed grain, and machinery....

Some of the report's authors would go on to work in government to implement CED's policy recommendations. Over the next five years, the political and economic establishment ensured the reduction of "excess human resources engaged in agriculture" by two million, or by 1/3 of their previous number.

Their plan was so effective and so faithfully executed by its operatives in the US government that by 1974 the CED couldn't help but congratulate itself in another agricultural report called "A New US Farm Policy for Changing World Food Needs" for the efficiency of the tactics they employed to drive farmers from their land.[5]

The human cost of CED's plans were exacting and enormous.

CED's plans resulted in widespread social upheaval throughout rural America, ripping apart the fabric of its society destroying its local economies. They also resulted in a massive migration to larger cities. The loss of a farm also means the loss of identity, and many farmers' lives ended in suicide... Nicole Johnson www.opednews.com...

This Pew report backs up Nicole's Conclusions.

PEW Report

...The diversified, independent, family-owned farms of 40 years ago that produced a variety of crops and a few animals are disappearing as an economic entity, replaced by much larger, and often highly leveraged, farm factories....

The economic disparity between industrial farms and those that retain locally owned and controlled farms may be due in part, to the degree in which money stays in the community. Locally owned and controlled farms tend to buy their supplies and services locally, thus supporting a variety of local businesses. This phenomenon is known as the economic “multiplier” effect, estimated at approximately seven dollars per dollar earned by the locally owned farm. In contrast, ifap facilities under contract to integrators have a much lower multiplier effect...

...Research consistently shows that the social and economic well-being of rural communities benefits from larger numbers of farmers rather than fewer farms that produce increased volumes. In rural communities where fewer, larger farms have replaced smaller, locally owned farms, residents have experienced lower family income, higher poverty rates, lower retail sales, reduced housing quality, and persistent low wages for farm workers....

"The Socialist Revolution in the US cannot take place because there are too many small independent farmers there. Those people are the stability factor. We here in Russia must hurry while our government is stupid enough to not encourage and support the independent farmership."

V. Lenin, the founder of the Russian revolution

You people crying for this to happen have provided the government with all the means necessary to take past rights away and whats left away.....

Do you feel better at the airport being checked EVERY PERSON ..... they find everything else except what they setup the check point for in the first place....... as in everything they do ... make you afraid of it and you vote for it.

These check points find EVERYTHING else, expired license,tags people with warrants, outstanding tickets, people with a joints ... you name it they are looking for EVERYTHING and you gave them permission to stop every person in a car.

anyone who agrees with this treatment is a IDIOT and you deserve NO RIGHTS ... just sign up for the sheep roundup because you spit on everyone who fights for and fought for your rights.

Its amazing ...... Guilty until proven innocent..... ohhhhh wait that's already happening.

Texas has been doing this for a few years now. Easy Peasy, don't drink and drive. Driving is a privilege, at least legally.

DRIVER. One employed in conducting a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle, with horses, mules, or other animals.

Person - 2. It is also used to denote a corporation which is an artificial person. 1 Bl. Com. 123; 4 Bing. 669; C. 33 Eng. C. L R. 488; Wooddes. Lect. 116; Bac. Us. 57; 1 Mod. 164.

Bouvier's Law Dictionary

When you enter onto a public road, with your "drivers license". The corporation of you is using the coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle, with horses, mules, or other animals', to conduct in commerce, perhaps interstate commerce.

Therefore, "you" are not driving, your strawman corporation is and is legally conducting business on the roads. Your drunk ass gave up any right's you had the minute you left a private drive.

reply to post by catwhoknowsplusone


Watch silver and gold pricing during January. It is not about spreading fear, it is about preparedness. These are some of the worst conditions since the great depression. It's time people started educating themselves on why the great depression came to be and avoid making some of those same mistakes again. At the very least, recognize the signs and prepare. I don;t want to hear crying from someone who said everything is OK and then scream for help later on.

Getting back to the OP, choosing the "No refusal" checkpoints as a point on which to defend civil liberties is such a lousy PR move I can easily believe it was hatched by people at MADD to make the opposition look like morons.
In the last ten years or so, the libertarians have taken a few pages from the leftist/anarchist playbook. Unfortunately for them, they were sometimes the wrong pages. Most dedicated statists/leftists/socialists think that the majority of Americans actually agree with them, but are tricked into voting against their economic interests by the evil right. Recently, libertarians have fallen into the same trap. If one is totally committed to a philosophy, one tends to think that any rational person with see the "obvious" sense of the argument. This is why the true believer is almost always defeated by the pragmatist. The American people want policies to WORK. They really don't give a s**t if the policy is labelled socialist, libertarian, constitutionalist or statist, as long as the policy successfully addresses the problem. Most ATSers care, but let's face it - we are not "the people" writ large, rather a minority about equal to the hardcore leftists/Marxists in America, which some of us seem to be.
Libertarians who want the support of the uncommitted middle of the electorate would be wise to steer away from attacking any program designed to reduce drunk driving, unless you in fact work for the statist opposition. There are so many other individual rights violations to spotlight, why shoot yourselves in the foot?

reply to post by TheComte


"Some people shouldn't be driving sober". Truer words were never written!

reply to post by taskforce4256

Yes, you can pick and choose your battles, and therefore win them all or a majority of them, but guarding only the front door allows the enemy to enter the back door.
I believe you have to fight for ALL of your rights, and try to point out the clever ways that they can slowly be taken away. Ron Paul has been ridiculed for years, and framed as a kook by the media. He stuck to his guns, and his legacy will be that of a true patriot and statesman, even though he has won few battles and stood alone for many years.
We the people are under continual assault by statists and the ignorant masses that allow this creeping oppression, we must make clear what lines should never be crossed, and teach our children the true values. No compromise.

Originally posted by timewalker
Texas has been doing this for a few years now. Easy Peasy, don't drink and drive. Driving is a privilege, at least legally.

DRIVER. One employed in conducting a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle, with horses, mules, or other animals.

Person - 2. It is also used to denote a corporation which is an artificial person. 1 Bl. Com. 123; 4 Bing. 669; C. 33 Eng. C. L R. 488; Wooddes. Lect. 116; Bac. Us. 57; 1 Mod. 164.

Bouvier's Law Dictionary

When you enter onto a public road, with your "drivers license". The corporation of you is using the coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle, with horses, mules, or other animals', to conduct in commerce, perhaps interstate commerce.

Therefore, "you" are not driving, your strawman corporation is and is legally conducting business on the roads. Your drunk ass gave up any right's you had the minute you left a private drive.

The little flaw in your argument:

DRIVER. One employed in conducting a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle

There is a difference between travelling and driving.

Delivery people and limo drivers actually drive.

Private citizens operate.

Originally posted by Schaden

Originally posted by crimvelvet
I will say it again I do not drink. So why the heck should I allow some bozo to shove a needle into me, Just because I want to travel on the highway my taxes paid for?

You're not getting a needle shoved in your arm UNLESS an LEO believes with probable cause that you are DUI, AND you refuse to blow into a tube.

Don't make this a bigger deal than it is.

I thought this too, but nobody makes it clear if the officer at the checkpoint has to have probable cause. This is what frightens me, because I have been harrassed by police in NJ And I am wondering if maybe someone the police don't like goes through one of these checkpoints, they could use it to harrass, although the officers I have dealt with here are not so bad, I can't definatively say that this won't happen. Or even if you get a bit mouthy, as I am naturally, lol, they might just do it for the sake of giving one a hard time. It's too unclear in the article, probable cause is never even mentioned, and that leads me to think that this is a glorified witchhunt! I think they should just stop making cars altogether. Theres something on the venus project about making magnetic trains all over that would get to China from NY in 2 hours! I mean as a total alternative to vehicles we have now, that seems pretty good. Then no one would have to worry about burning fossil fuels or drinking and driving.

a blood test...u must be joking...this is completely ridiculous and should also be against the law as is drunk driving....who do they think they are to just be ordering out blood tests on whoever they please

reply to post by Pawel420nj

They think they are our slave masters, what else? This is more about keeping the slaves in their place than anything else.

reply to post by Intelearthling

I can't believe some of the posts here. It seems that the people against this action are the ones that wants to get drink and drive this weekend.

I will repeat AGAIN. I DO NOT Drink! I hate the taste of Alcohol. I am the designated driver.

Where I have a problem with is a road block set up where I am considered guilty and I have to PROVE I AM NOT GUILTY!

It is obvious that people here can not connect the dots so I will do it for you:

1. First is the Governments attitude towards US citizens:
"The federal government and a private laboratory say they have no duty under Florida law to protect the public from anthrax or other lethal materials." - www.wwsb.com...

So much for the removing drunk drivers as a "duty under Florida law to protect the public"

2. Airplanes: TSA is already doing Grope-N-Fly.

3. Trains, Subways and Boats: DHS secretary Janet Napolitano says that full-body scanners may be deployed in train stations, on subway platforms, and in marinas;

4. Buses: The Intercity Bus Security Grant Program (IBSGP) is one of five grant programs that constitute the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Fiscal Year (FY) 2010 focus on transportation infrastructure security activities.

5. Homeland Security considers Americans a THREAT: Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said the threat of “homegrown” terrorism increased during the past year and more U.S. citizens or legal residents are “becoming radicalized to the point of violence.”

6. The beginning of a citizen SPY network: Secretary Napolitano Announces Expansion of "If You See Something, Say Something" Campaign to Walmart Stores Across the Nation

7. Attorney General Holder: Home-grown terrorist threat keeps me awake at night "..The main threat to the US is no longer foreigners infiltrating the homeland..."

8. TOLEDO MAYOR TELLS MARINES "NO" TO URBAN WARFARE TRAINING IN CITY

9. Daily Times Herald in Carroll, Iowa: "The Carroll National Guard unit will train on urban military operations by holding a four-day exercise at Arcadia."


Military Commissions Act of 2006: the Act's stated purpose was "To authorize trial by military commission for violations of the law of war, and for other purposes."

...George Bush also quietly and privately signed into law a revision to the 1807 Insurrection Act. It was hidden in Sections 1076 and 333 of the John Warner Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007.

Two hundred years of tradition along with the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act prohibit using federal and National Guard troops for law enforcement inside the country except as allowed by the Constitution or authorized by Congress in times of a national emergency like an insurrection.

Under the new law, the chief executive can claim a public emergency, effectively declare martial law and send federal and National Guard troops to the nation's streets to suppress whatever he calls public disorder that may include peaceful demonstrations against wars of aggression and rightful demands for restoration of our constitutional rights now abandoned.... www.netctr.com...

Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defence
...Civil-Military Programs are improving military readiness and helping to rebuild America. These programs are in keeping with a long military tradition, leveraging training to benefit both units and their home communities.

They are strongly supported by The Department of Defense(DoD), Congress, the states and communities.

The military services have always brought to bear their extensive resources to help meet some of the country’s civil needs. In recent years, DOD has realized the simultaneous benefits, these civil-military programs can offer to military readiness.... osd.dtic.mil...

I am not sure how wacked this site is but these two statement are certainly true.

...Since SWAT teams, modeled on the US Military’s Special Forces, were introduced in the 1970s, police departments of major US cities such as Seattle, New York, and Los Angeles have increasingly been trained in aggressive military philosophy, strategy, tactics, and weaponry, and to perceive entire groups of people and neighborhoods as "threats."


...Policing of political demonstrations is also evidence of increasing militarization, as officers are trained to use military formations and weapons to disrupt and disperse lawful protests. www.iiasa.ac.at...

Originally posted by yrwehere1
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

I live in Florida and would like to know where you got your figures. You guess that 80% of the population here does crack, meth or smoke weed? What part of thin air did you pull that figure from?

That's like my saying that a lot of the people here are retired and their all notorious drug users and dealers supplementing their social security . You make me laugh. By the way, do you even have a daughter or did you pull that out of thin air too?

edit on 30-12-2010 by yrwehere1 because: Added to comment

Okay I should have said where I live in Florida, which I have mentioned is hillsborough county, Miami is pretty close to those figures too, just about all the people in My neck of the woods, they are doing all that and more, but yeah I exaggerated, a little it probably isn't the entire state, I don't know those figures, but pick up one of those papers with all the arrests in it if you're ever in Hillsborough County, and that's just the people they caught, Most of the ones I have had the un-pleasure of meeting are never caught. Yeah I did exaggerate, but I beleive I did put a disclaimer there, That In my opinion, I may be wrong, but I think it's pretty close...did you not see that?

Originally posted by blangger

Originally posted by Slichter
I got stopped today in Florida, have to say they were a little over cautious testing me. Came up 0.02083 and they sent me on my way. No complaints here if the testing saves lives.

I am different, this makes me sick. What is next, they come to your house and ask if they can come in. You refuse so they tell you, scene you refused your little girls need a vaginal search because you did not bow down and must be hiding something because who in their right mind would not obey unless you are hiding something. I hope you get the point this opens the door for tyranny and is nothing less.

HA !!! YOU must never have dealt with Child protective services, all those things they CAN and indeed DO!!!! If the call is made that someone is sexually molesting their child then they can against the parent's and child's will do a rape kit, which in essence is what you stated there.This is something that is truly disgusting, they have infringed on people,s homes for well over two decades, CPS!!!!! But of course nobody was outraged then, because OUR children need protecting...Just go ahead and read their stats, Have they ever saved ONE child?
OK MAYBE ONE! And that is a generous figure!

Originally posted by Pharyax
Reminds me of the Nazi checkpoints looking for Jewish people.....
This Country is becoming more and more fascist.

I do agree with checkpoints to get those pathetic loser drunks off the street, but the 'no refusal' bit of it is worrying.. makes me wonder what other 'no refusal' type checkpoints they'll come up with besides busting drunks.

edit on 12/30/2010 by Pharyax because: (no reason given)

Why don't we just solve the whole damn problem by going back to prohibition!!!!!!!!!!!

No more alcohol readily available and you wouldn't have the high number of drunk drivers, and they would more than likely, all be on backroads so if they did crash, they would only kill themselves and maybe a few hillbillies!!

reply to post by getreadyalready


So drunk people don't think they're too drunk to drive? Have you ever gotten drunk? Even buzzed? If you have then that comment should not be coming out of your mouth. The only people I know that drive while drunk are either moronic high school teenagers or severe alcoholics-either way there is no excuse to drive under the influence. If you ask me, these checkpoints are a-ok with me-hell, they should suspend people's licenses for 5 years for driving under the influence...

reply to post by verylowfrequency


Well that's different.

I apologise, i had assumed that the breath tests and blood test if you refuse a breath test, was only to be *after* a driver has demonstrated poor driving, speeding, erratic driving etc, in other words, probable cause to request a breath test.

I didn't realise that *every single driver* who goes through these areas, will be stopped and tested arbitrarily!

That i do not agree with...i thought the new rules were simply about a compulsory blood test if you refuse a breath test, only after you've been pulled over for bad or dangerous driving?

The 'everyone' gets tested regardless of any indication of bad driving or not, puts a whole new slant on things.

Is this they way it is then? Everyone gets breath tested regardless?

The very same thing is happening in my city. Although the idea is altruistic it directly contradicts the 4th and 5th amendments to the constitution and you don't need a lawyer to explain that. Just goes to show that the gov't can do pretty much whatever it wants and you will have no choice but to obey. What will stop them from making everyday a "no refusal" day in the near future...for every search and seizure procedure?