There is no God !!!!!!

I would like to say that I'm sorry, but my title is misleading.I have done this on purpose to hopefully attract the very people who will comprehend the message best.

Yes I believe in God period .

I must assume that the majority who read this thread do too because the title of this thread was meant to hit a nerve with the people that have the best chance to help evolve ( pun intended ) our current situation.Everything is a creation which inturn has a creator, and yes evolution is part of this process.

This thread though is not another debate between the two . At this time, this is the best medium to give this knowledge to the ones that will and can use it properly.

I'm not in anyway trying to say one group of people is superior to any other based on their beliefs ,we all have our role to play and to verbally attack one group at this time would only show a lack of understanding .I do have my views and yes I lean to mine being the right one just like everyone else does with their views.I must try to keep my debating to a minimum because time is a factor and those I'm trying to reach will already have an easier time in understanding, its just in their programming.

Anyone I offended I will say sorry but these messages may not be for you at this time or maybe never.That does not in anyway lessen your roles.Another thing I must say is that I'm not very good when it comes to grammer , in know way should this shield the truth. It is this way for a reason and I thank all thoughs who correct my spelling mistakes because it helps me remember where my faults lay.

Ok now that I got that out of the way lets get on to the good stuff.(laughing as I write ).Seriously though I can and I will try to help explain a few things.Proof will come only to those people who WILL try to understand first.This is the way it has to be.
Are the illuminatti real? Yes and they are very powerful. A few of the post and information on them are very accurate,but this is just one of the groups vieing for what they precieve as their survival.
Knowledge is very liberating but can also be just as dangerous and the higher ups in the illuminatti know this all to well.
Let me put it this way,all machines have a function and this function is what defines the machine. A can opener is a can opener because of what it does . A can opener is just as good as a car.If you don't believe me let me use an example,If you were stranded on a dessert island and had cans of food with you what machine would you rather have? It's all about time. I hope some can understand this.
If time is a big factor a machine must be built to exist from a certain time to a certain time,for example a stereo might have say a five year warranty,it must perform for those five years to be a good stereo if it breaks or only plays some stations it ceases to be a good stereo ,lets take it one step futher and say it's really not a stereo anymore the stereo ceases to exist. This breaks one of the laws of the universe ,survival,this is innate in everything,including groups such as the illuminatti.
If you understand what I have said you will understand a little about why the illuminatti is the way it is.You will also understand that better machines will always come along, this is a form of creation and evolution. Human beings are unique in the universe in that they can become any machine .To understand this you must understand that a human as most know them is only one type of machine all be it a very complicated one.I will use the old saying "like sheep"
There is a transition taking place where some of the sheep no longer are good machines they are broken as machines they cease to exist as sheep .This brings me to another law of the universe anything created cannot be destroyed it will only create something different.For some this new creation will be better then the old for others worse.
I will get away from the philosophy in my next post.

ok... My major issue with the 'god' concept is this:

People (as a whole) that believe in a 'god' figure see this as a kindly deity, a being that cares... They (as a whole) also tend to believe that god is 'all powerful, all seeing and all knowing'.

There is a paradox here, if 'god' is all seeing, all knowing, all powerful and a kindly deity then why would he allow all the suffering of innocents? I have asked this question many times and the only answer I get is 'God has a plan' and that as I am not God I am not privy to or able to understand the 'plan'.

I know that its easy for a 'God believer' to say that I simply don't understand Gods plan' but from a biblical point of view that argument doesn't hold up... The biblical reason for our suffering and apparently all the suffering on the earth is Eve's disobedience... For a caring god the punishment does not fit the crime.

Another point that was always hammered home to me was that the bible is the word of God, again that defies logic, if the bible is the word of God then why is it open to mistranslation? If a God has gone to the trouble of providing his word (in what ever form) then that word would be guided by God, therefore it would not be open to misunderstanding or mistranslation, a God would be able to provide us with his word in an unequivocal way, his word would be his word, after all God would not be tied by language or interpretation.

Originally posted by bigheadjay
Everything is a creation which inturn has a creator

1. everything is a creation
2. everything has a creator
3. your god is part of everything (or a 'thing' inclusive in 'everything')
4. your god has a creator

Who created your god? Who created the guy that created your god? So on and so forth.


"Did you make disease, and the diamond blue? Did you make
Mankind after we made you? And the devil too!"

(song "dear god")

There is too a god, she told me so last night.

Oh yeah, god is a chick. A little wild too and a bit sarcastic, funny nonetheless.

Good to know you believe in her, stay strong holmes. Oh and she's Mexican too.

So… yeah… just saying…

reply to post by Hesperornis


Something like this??

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0131e77bc6c6.gif[/atsimg]

Heres my shtick on the subject.

When you slide open your patio door in the height of summer and the sound of the insects and the aromas of the flowers fills the warm air - How can you deny that this is somehow pointless or without design. An accident?

You are truly blind in a world of beauty if you cannot bow down to the notion of god for the simple reason thats its power is beyond your understanding.

Calculus will not explain god, Physics will not explain god, Photo evidence will not explain god.

To live without god is a joke - you do not need a religion - but to assume that this world is without divinity is just ignorant when every breath you take has been breathed to you from another source without expectation.

Take a deep breath with me - hold it - let it go

That was a gift from a source beyond our understanding.

Did you take another one? Lets be grateful.

We are so lucky to just be alive.

I bow down to this simple fact in humble gratitude as it surely cannot be by accident that something as wonderful as who I Am is able to be a conscious being capable of great levels of pleasure and joy!

Thank you!

-G

Originally posted by Versa
ok... My major issue with the 'god' concept is this:

People (as a whole) that believe in a 'god' figure see this as a kindly deity, a being that cares... They (as a whole) also tend to believe that god is 'all powerful, all seeing and all knowing'.

There is a paradox here, if 'god' is all seeing, all knowing, all powerful and a kindly deity then why would he allow all the suffering of innocents? I have asked this question many times and the only answer I get is 'God has a plan' and that as I am not God I am not privy to or able to understand the 'plan'.

I know that its easy for a 'God believer' to say that I simply don't understand Gods plan' but from a biblical point of view that argument doesn't hold up... The biblical reason for our suffering and apparently all the suffering on the earth is Eve's disobedience... For a caring god the punishment does not fit the crime.

Another point that was always hammered home to me was that the bible is the word of God, again that defies logic, if the bible is the word of God then why is it open to mistranslation? If a God has gone to the trouble of providing his word (in what ever form) then that word would be guided by God, therefore it would not be open to misunderstanding or mistranslation, a God would be able to provide us with his word in an unequivocal way, his word would be his word, after all God would not be tied by language or interpretation.

God allows suffering because he loves us.To understand this one must look first objectively at the answer.
God has given us one of the greatest gifts of all ,Free Will.Its like when a child leaves home .If the parent has been a good parent he or she has given proper advice to a child to hopefully survive comfortly in life.The parent gives the child guidance but ultimtely must let the child grow.

If I tell a child that the burner on a stove is hot I have given him knowledge which is a very powerful tool.Now knowledge can be used positively ,in this case to not touch the stove burner .Now if God had not given us free will this is where it would end .But because God has given us free will the negative aspect of touching the burner on the stove must also be present. In this case if the child touched the hot burner he would get burnt.Now the child would have not only the knowledge he was given he would also have the wisdom.Knowledge without wisdom can be very negative.Don't misunderstand me by thinking I mean all wisdom is gained through a negative experience positive experiences can give wisdom to.Try to think of good and evil as the same only different sides of the coin . Different degrees.

reply to post by bigheadjay


One can learn such a significant amount from great pain. Most just want to avoid it though, or have it go away.

Originally posted by bigheadjay

God allows suffering because he loves us.To understand this one must look first objectively at the answer.
God has given us one of the greatest gifts of all ,Free Will.Its like when a child leaves home .If the parent has been a good parent he or she has given proper advice to a child to hopefully survive comfortly in life.The parent gives the child guidance but ultimtely must let the child grow.

If I tell a child that the burner on a stove is hot I have given him knowledge which is a very powerful tool.Now knowledge can be used positively ,in this case to not touch the stove burner .Now if God had not given us free will this is where it would end .But because God has given us free will the negative aspect of touching the burner on the stove must also be present. In this case if the child touched the hot burner he would get burnt.Now the child would have not only the knowledge he was given he would also have the wisdom.Knowledge without wisdom can be very negative.Don't misunderstand me by thinking I mean all wisdom is gained through a negative experience positive experiences can give wisdom to.Try to think of good and evil as the same only different sides of the coin . Different degrees.

Free will has nothing to do with those born into poverty or those who contract terrible diseases or children that are brutally murdered or innocent victims of war...

To use your analogy of the loving parent I will do ANYTHING to protect my child from harm your 'god' does nothing. Your 'answer' had very little to do with my post, but that is what people that believe in a god do, they use stock answers even when they dont fit the question.

Originally posted by Versa

Originally posted by bigheadjay

God allows suffering because he loves us.To understand this one must look first objectively at the answer.
God has given us one of the greatest gifts of all ,Free Will.Its like when a child leaves home .If the parent has been a good parent he or she has given proper advice to a child to hopefully survive comfortly in life.The parent gives the child guidance but ultimtely must let the child grow.

If I tell a child that the burner on a stove is hot I have given him knowledge which is a very powerful tool.Now knowledge can be used positively ,in this case to not touch the stove burner .Now if God had not given us free will this is where it would end .But because God has given us free will the negative aspect of touching the burner on the stove must also be present. In this case if the child touched the hot burner he would get burnt.Now the child would have not only the knowledge he was given he would also have the wisdom.Knowledge without wisdom can be very negative.Don't misunderstand me by thinking I mean all wisdom is gained through a negative experience positive experiences can give wisdom to.Try to think of good and evil as the same only different sides of the coin . Different degrees.

Free will has nothing to do with those born into poverty or those who contract terrible diseases or children that are brutally murdered or innocent victims of war...

To use your analogy of the loving parent I will do ANYTHING to protect my child from harm your 'god' does nothing. Your 'answer' had very little to do with my post, but that is what people that believe in a god do, they use stock answers even when they dont fit the question.

Free Will has everything to do with people born into poverty. Man creates Wars and Poverty .It's mans Choice to not help those in need.
Answer truthfully-Have you in your life done everything you can to help others?If you answered yes I know you aren't being honest because I like you and probably 99.9% of the people have not.Ok some people give millons of dollars to help needy people ,which is good, but I ask you is giving a millon dollars to help alot when your worth billons.How many people would give there last dollar to help another hungrier then them ?We cannot blame God for the innocent victims.
You as a good parent like many others would do all they can to protect our children .But as a good parent you raise your children with hopefully good morals so he or she can one day go off on their own and experience life just as we all have.How could your child develop their own true morals and feelings if you were there making all their choices ,because this is the only way you could protect them all the time.Even then you couldn't.
If you give something to your child and tell your child to only use it to help others ,if he uses it to hurt others is this your fault?Sure you can stop him from hurting others,which you should when you can, but what if you were with them 24/7and could stop them everytime , protect them ,make all their decisions for them ,they would be no more then a machine like a computer controlled by the programmer.
As for all the people born into poverty this is a product of humans not God .God has given life to all it's up to us if we want to help those less fortunate. We are the ones when a child dies of a disease or dies at birth or what ever happens could help why should I ask my Father to help when I could do it myself ? Why should I blame my father when I could've helped?
I tried to instill responsibilty for their actions in my children.Just remember you like all of us say we would do everything to protect our children.
Are we right now doing this?Are we putting 100percent into stopping henouis crimes ,preventing poverty ,helping less fortunate ,helping prevent and cure diseases ?None of us are that means none of us are truly doing "anything "to protect our children.
If God stopped all the bad stuff all the bad things we were going to do all the poverty all the disease everthing we consider bad what would a person truly be? A robot?
We must also remember every action we chose to do has a ripple affect like throwing a rock into water we all effect one another.
I don't claim to have all the answers but this one fits with my life experiences.We must remember none have all the answers , and once a person thinks they do they cease to be able to learn,everything the are told is wrong if it doesn't agree with their views.
Respectfully

The way it seems to me, that "most" people believe in God, I don't agree. I don't think God is an external anthropomorphical being/diety that is a controller infiltrater in human affairs. To me, that is a myth, but is how so many people see God. God to me, is eternal energy consciousness. Everything, and all of us, is God. God always was, and will always be, like us, and everything, though the forms may change. I don't think there is an old bearded guy in the clouds or in a heaven that looks down on us and judges us or gives out his wrath.

reply to post by Versa


God can not be a being. God can only be three things.

1. Awareness.
2. God is both the infinite and the finite fabric of existence.

It is not Gods fault or wishes that some humans have to suffer. Its a human fault that some people have to suffer more than others.

Our suffering has nothing to do with God. It has to do with human morals and human moral values.

God wont intervene with his creation and he never has. That's why believing in God is very hard for some. We shouldn't have to cry to God for a better world. We humans should be very capable of shaping things up our selves. But first we have to figure out what morality is, because we humans have never been moral.

reply to post by Versa

Maybe I can shed some light for you. I hear your complaint about god alot. Why does god let this happen or that happen. It's called free will. God is not shooting warzone civilians, god is not making others live in poverty. All the things you wonder why god lets it happen has a very simple answer. Free will..people kill people, people hoard wealth so that others live in poverty. Every bad thing that happens in our world is either because people are doing to each other or our planet is dong it because of all the things people are doing to it. Atomic tests conducted underground, pollution, killing off species at a rate unseen since the last mass extinction event, the list goes on. If there is no god we are all screwed. People will not stop what they are doing on their own, and if they believe there will be no consequences for their actions, what's to say they won't take their negative actions a little farther than they originally planned? This plane of existence is a schoolyard of sorts, we are all learning hard lessons that further our souls development. If you were born rich, what lessons could you learn that would be meaningful and benefit your souls journey? If you were born poor, life would be much harder but you would also learn lessons you would have never learned if you lived the easy life. Hope that clears things up for you. Don't be so set in your ideas that you have no room for new ideas. Knowledge is not wisdom.