Alien believers: Convince a skeptic

Originally posted by mythos
reply to post by The Shrike

 

i take moderate offense to your rebuke of my suggestions.

wheat from chaffe? dubious sources? the problem with ATS!!!???!?!?

the point i was trying to make is that there is a LOT of info out there. it is up to each individual to separate the "wheat from the chaffe" and not have some else (i.e. you) tell her what's what.

because i am certain you are not THE expert on all things extraterrestrial.

and what you have offhandedly rebuked, others have championed. i mean, are you dismissing off hand Bud Hopkins. or MUFON. the Ancient Aliens show (albeit a commercial enterprise) has raised not ONE though provoking idea?

i chose to list forums and topics where there was a host of info. and unexplained phenomenon for the OP to sift through. then the OP can make up their own mind. that was the point..... not to dismiss every bit of info concerning UFO lore with a cynical lens.

and that's what i find as a problem with ATS nowadays: blanket comments from "know-it-alls"

geez.

my advice, once again.... do the research. there is plenty out that. decide for yourself.

I agree with you on only one thing: there is a lot of info out there. But without having accurate statistics I guess that 99.9% is downright bs and you chose material that falls in that percentage. If you doubt me, check up on all the info you provided and see if you come with anything that supports your info. Frankly, I doubt it. My suggestions to the OP still stand.

reply to post by The Shrike


even if 99.9% is BS (which is not a number i would agree with, mind you), then that .1% is fairly important, don't you think, when attempting to discover such a profound potential truth as the existence of alien life forms and their potential relations with humans.

so, shall i be lazy, and not sift through as much info as possible, to cipher the quest down to the truly unanswerable mysteries.

i have never suggested for anyone to buy everything they hear. that is foolish. i subscribe to the notion that skeptics serve an invaluable function to the believer, and vice-versa.



but i would not presume that whole branches of paranormal exploration are rubbish. i feel that would presumptuous on my part and against the spirit of a conspiracy web-site.


in one fellow's trash is another's treasure they say. i suppose i am willing to get a little dirty if it takes me further down the rabbit hole.


and now that i've mixed metaphors...

adieu

reply to post by KayinAR


First, welcome to ATS!

Here's some of the most convincing info I've found. Fair warning, it's a long read, but hopefully you find it worth it:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There's a lot more to the story than just the questionable testimony of witnesses....

In regards to the threadstarter's original post, I've seen an enormous amount of UFO activity in this past year. When I make enough posts, I'll start a thread befitting of this! : )

For now, I emplore everyone to go outside (preferably to a more rural area), and watch the birds. What I'm about to say will sound absolutely crazy, but I can guarantee that it is the truth (it is the very reason I joined this forum).

Take a decent vantage point in order that you are able to see the skies all round, and direct your thoughts in the direction of seeing paranormal activity (this is crucial, though it is probably the point in which some smart chap starts discussing schizophrenia). When you see a bird, follow it and, eventually, no joke, you will see further birds appear out of thin air. I have watched this happen over the past year or so, and if anyone would like further information on how to see paranormal activity (there is a link between intention, and whatever these things are), then message me.

Know how it sounds, but I believe that this is the most significant thing in the history of mankind, and I will not stop posting about it until it's widely acknowledged across the internet. I've shown a fair few people this and, though the reaction hasn't always been positive in the sense that it's shaken a few people up, several people have become as obsessed as I have.

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by brindle
Is the testimony of 400 witnesses at roswell,that they saw a crashed disc and small alien bodies enough for you?That evidence alone is definitive proof for me.

There were no 400 witnesses at Roswell! Geezus krist, how dumb can people get? The only witnesses came after the fact and the limited number of witnesses to what was found gave their testimony which is still being negated by the gullible.

Of course the witnesses came after the fact,did you think the witnesses came before the fact?A witness can only come forward after an event happens.Most of the witness testimony was delayed for years because there lives were threatened.They all talk about threats.Remember it was a different era back then.I will publish shortly a list of witnesses for your viewing pleasure.

i saw a ufo, it was definatly aliens. i wouldnt lie about this.

Originally posted by mythos
reply to post by The Shrike

 

even if 99.9% is BS (which is not a number i would agree with, mind you), then that .1% is fairly important, don't you think, when attempting to discover such a profound potential truth as the existence of alien life forms and their potential relations with humans.

so, shall i be lazy, and not sift through as much info as possible, to cipher the quest down to the truly unanswerable mysteries.

i have never suggested for anyone to buy everything they hear. that is foolish. i subscribe to the notion that skeptics serve an invaluable function to the believer, and vice-versa.

but i would not presume that whole branches of paranormal exploration are rubbish. i feel that would presumptuous on my part and against the spirit of a conspiracy web-site.

in one fellow's trash is another's treasure they say. i suppose i am willing to get a little dirty if it takes me further down the rabbit hole.

and now that i've mixed metaphors...

adieu

Well, since we're both attempting to help the OP, let's start with a definition of skeptic: "•Contemporary skepticism (or scepticism) is loosely used to denote any questioning attitude, or some degree of doubt regarding claims that are elsewhere taken for granted."

However, as I said I don't think that the OP is a true skeptic, more like a doubter. Which is better than being an out and out believer and she does say she wants to believe. I don't want to believe, I want to know and knowledge only comes from facts.

I do not think that "attempting to discover such a profound potential truth as the existence of alien life forms and their potential relations with humans.", presently, that goal is attainable regardless of the effort expended. It's beyond us and will be until the status quo changes. Not in the amount of years I have left.

Believers do not serve an invaluable function to skeptics. Yes, they keep you on your toes, so to speak, but believers are really an aggravating bunch because they do not understand nor accept that they're believers not because they were born that way but that they've been mentally-conditioned. It's natural to question and be satisfied only when answers are reliable, not "maybe".

I didn't say that all paranormal exploration is rubbish if I said that at all. But because of human gullibility a lot, if not most, all claims for paranormal activity turns out to be rubbish. Look at the Amytiville Horror as an example of widely-held "truths" when it was a hoax: www.prairieghosts.com...

Au revoir

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by mythos
reply to post by The Shrike

 

I do not thing that "attempting to discover such a profound potential truth as the existence of alien life forms and their potential relations with humans.", presently, that goal is attainable regardless of the effort expended. It's beyond us and will be until the status quo changes. Not in the amount of years I have left.

i do think that goal is attainable.

i suppose therein lay our difference.


cheers. thanks for the spirited debate.

Originally posted by brindle

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by brindle
Is the testimony of 400 witnesses at roswell,that they saw a crashed disc and small alien bodies enough for you?That evidence alone is definitive proof for me.

There were no 400 witnesses at Roswell! Geezus krist, how dumb can people get? The only witnesses came after the fact and the limited number of witnesses to what was found gave their testimony which is still being negated by the gullible.

Of course the witnesses came after the fact,did you think the witnesses came before the fact?A witness can only come forward after an event happens.Most of the witness testimony was delayed for years because there lives were threatened.They all talk about threats.Remember it was a different era back then.I will publish shortly a list of witnesses for your viewing pleasure.

How can you be so sure that those witnesses are telling the truth? How can you be so sure that they're remembering the events accurately after years of remaining silent before coming forth?

Setting aside the fact that witness testimony isn't really admissible in science (due to the above reasons), testimony after years of silence is even worse when it comes to how accurate those memories are.

The long and short of Roswell to me is: Were there really bodies? Is there proof of the existence of those bodies, and can we scientifically examine those bodies?

Of course, that dastardly government is always right in the way with their secrets and control to stop us from knowing the truth every single time! (Sarcasm aside, I'm pretty tired of seeing the "secret government" angle being used as a cop out every time there's an absence of real evidence in a case like Roswell.)

This is something that is very important when dealing with skeptics: Witness testimony in regards to scientific exploration within the ETH is not worthwhile, because it doesn't prove anything.

I personally like to hear the stories, but they're nothing more than stories until the actual science proves the ETH true. After that is when they become invaluable.

your best bet is to just let it go. you're never going to be anything other than skeptical from anything you'll see/read from this site or the internet in general. most rational human beings will not be convinced until the aliens are on television parked on the white house lawn or standing in front of them only then can they no longer deny the reality. i could tell you about my experiences over the years, how it has effected my personal/social/business life in one form another but once again i'm just another person on the internet spitting a bunch of garbage he can't prove beyond his word.

what this is all boiling down too is that you OP need to forget about ATS, forget about aliens, forget about spaceships and other "sci-fi" nonsense. you won't find the truth here or any other site for that matter. for one reason or another some individuals CHOSE myself and my family for these horrific experiments, i'd never wish this fate on my own worst enemy. if it came down to either knowing or not i'd prefer to remain ignorant cause once that door opened i quickly found out that it could not be closed.

live your life OP. enjoy the little things. find what makes you happy and strive to obtain it everyday. the truth is not for the faint of heart.

reply to post by kmarx


respectfully, i am curious as to your experiences, and rather interested in: "another person on the internet spitting out garbage." in fact, that is why i come to ATS.

i think the OP is as well, which is why they started this thread.

reply to post by KayinAR


I could be wrong but finding proof that will convince you any direction ain´t gonna happen. The way i see it there´s one or two of two things that can happen. You will find your information and "know" this is true or you will get a personal experience so solid that no doubt is left in your mind. Proof for others to see is probably not a part of the deal.

Meanwhile i recommend these two thread...

Are extraterrestrials real...

and...

I´m coming clean...

Both authored by Lou Baldin aka sleeper. IMHO this is real although still just a piece of the puzzle. Call me a fruitcake and a nutcase if you like. Or better yet, prove me i´m a fruitcake and a nutcase lol.

] Here is what it comes down to.You either choose to believe the testimony of numerous members of the most elite military team on earth,the 509th, who dedicated their lives to protect the united states,or you dont believe them.Its really that simple.

Originally posted by kmarx
your best bet is to just let it go. you're never going to be anything other than skeptical from anything you'll see/read from this site or the internet in general. most rational human beings will not be convinced until the aliens are on television parked on the white house lawn or standing in front of them only then can they no longer deny the reality. i could tell you about my experiences over the years, how it has effected my personal/social/business life in one form another but once again i'm just another person on the internet spitting a bunch of garbage he can't prove beyond his word.

what this is all boiling down too is that you OP need to forget about ATS, forget about aliens, forget about spaceships and other "sci-fi" nonsense. you won't find the truth here or any other site for that matter. for one reason or another some individuals CHOSE myself and my family for these horrific experiments, i'd never wish this fate on my own worst enemy. if it came down to either knowing or not i'd prefer to remain ignorant cause once that door opened i quickly found out that it could not be closed.

live your life OP. enjoy the little things. find what makes you happy and strive to obtain it everyday. the truth is not for the faint of heart.

Well, now, that's not the right attitude. It's a human trait to be curious. The problem really is when curiosity can be sidestepped by gullibility because the curiosity doesn't have to be satisfied.

Actually look at the list below my reply. With Roswell there are facts which are not available in the other crashes although certain "facts" are offered but one has to be careful as to what can be relied upon. For Roswell, you have the facts as reported by the original people involved, the follow-ups which seemed to be at odds with what was reported which were never explained to the satisfaction of present believers. However, some investigators got deep in the hole, so to speak, and dug up fact after fact and compared the facts with those that are on record as being there and you'd be surprised as to how people change after 30+ years and how their memories are not as reliable. It doesn't matter what the position held by this person or that person back in 1947, research shows that not everything is as was reported.

So why hasn't any evidence surfaced for all of these alleged crashes, yet Roswell gets the press? Good press agents?

List of alleged UFO crashesFrom Wikipedia
This is a list of alleged UFO crashes studied within the field of Ufology.

Aurora, Texas UFO Incident (April 17, 1897)
Roswell UFO Incident (July 8, 1947)
Aztec, New Mexico UFO incident (1948)
Laredo, Texas UFO Crash (July 7, 1948)
Kecksburg UFO incident (December 9, 1965)
Shag Harbour UFO incident (October 1967)
Berwyn Mountain UFO incident (January 23, 1974)
Coyame UFO incident (August 25, 1974)
Rendlesham Forest incident (late December 1980)
Height 611 UFO incident (January 29, 1986)
Varginha UFO incident (Throughout 1996)
Del Rio, Texas UFO Crash
Needles, California UFO Incident

reply to post by KayinAR



I'm not going to try and convince you I'll just let you read my encounter.. and let you think about what you would do if you were me.. and try and answer any of the questions I've posed thru far .. with no answers to them yet..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and do a quick search on "i know what I saw' in ATS..

There is no solid evidence to back up alien visitation, therefore, as of yet, it has not happened, not that we know of.

TPTB may know different, but until they tell us, technically, it hasn't happened.

I'm watching a series at the moment that was recommended to me, Ancient Aliens. It looks at religeous texts, cave drawings, hieroglyphics etc, and ancient structures like Mayan and Egyptian pyramids etc, and tries to tie them in with ET visits....remember chariots of fire from religeous writings? That sort of stuff.

It's an amazing series so far, and it makes a lot of sense, but it's not solid proof. As a skeptic I am still forced to believe it hasn't happened yet, although I do find some of the evidence mouth watering.

I will do my best to debunk images or videos, by find finding rational and scientific explanations. When I can't find any explanation I'm secretly happier than when I do debunk, as I want to see proof before I die. But without that proof, I aint getting my hopes up just to be disappointed.

Welcome to ATS

reply to post by The Shrike


geez... i just gave your last post a star. seems your not full madders like i thought, and have a good spot of sense in ya'


and that is a fair compilation of respectable 'UFO crashes' to begin an exploration of the phenomenon.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by alphaphysics
www.youtube.com...

That is an awful video! From the opening whispers, to the overwrought "DAMIEN"-like soundtrack to the footage we've seen over and over ad naeuseum...AWFUL!

Hi and welcome to ATS. It is very important that you are taking an interest in to the existence of intelligent extraterrestrials, as many other should be doing for the same reason: they do exist. Many ATS members here, like myself, frequent ATS and other related sites such as coasttocoastam, not to search for further evidence of ET existence AND their past and present visitations to our planet, but for the news that the US government has finally admitted to such knowledge.
I'm in Canada here, and just to throw something to you regarding our government, is that they had already released their previously classified documents pertaining to UFOs, specifically the "flying saucers". In a nut shell, the Canadian government admits to not knowing who or what is operating the the flying saucers, and also released a copy of a memo that was sent to all police agencies giving detailed instruction as to what to do, if and when the saucers land.
If you really want to dig deeper with your investigation, I suggest you read about the Roswell crash (the military flat out admitted that it was a flying saucer that crashed, and then changed their minds, and then lied about it being a weather balloon) and also the Betty and Barney Hill abduction ( Barney was an activist for the fair and equal treatment of African Americans, and Betty was social worker. The only reason their incident with the extraterrestrials became wide known, is because they were betrayed by a journalist posing as a scientist. There was all kinds of evidence the collaborated with their abduction scenario ( google Betty Hill star map) and just so much more. The Betty and Barney Hill abduction became the first well documented case of alien abduction WITH physical evidence.
Another interesting case I suggest you read about is the case of Australian pilot Frederick Valentich. I assure you that you will feel at least a shiver and or have goosebumps when you finish reading the final radio message that he sent before.....well, I wont spoil it for you.
I hope I was of some assistance. Please persuade others to do as you are doing, and help us to convince the US government to quit fooling the people, and have them admit to the public (as has the Candadian, uk, British, France, etc Governments) that for the longest time now, the Earth has been visited and is still be visited by intelligent beings, not of our world, or possibly even solar system (or galaxy according to the Hills case)
Peace.