USA - WW2 War crimes never addressed and held accountable!

Originally posted by FarArcher
I saw a Japanese soldier who said that had the bombs NOT been dropped, he and his subsequent family wouldn't have been alive.

And I have heard from a Japanese soldier about how everyone was starving and the will to fight was fading fast.

The US could have easily just had a warship blockade around japan (it IS an island nation after all) and basically led a siege.

There was no need to murder 100,000 civilians in 3 seconds, then decide to do it again 3 days later.

reply to post by pinchanze


ok look i can see things from your perspective. Look i will ask you this, Would you do it again? What if the decesion was your's to make? Would you do it again?

reply to post by aching_knuckles

The US could have easily just had a warship blockade around japan (it IS an island nation after all) and basically led a siege. There was no need to murder 100,000 civilians in 3 seconds, then decide to do it again 3 days later.

Of course! Why didn't we do that?

It's so simple.

Starve the entire population for months (or years, whatever it takes)! That would have been so much more humane, waiting for the Japanese government to capitulate, while the entire population slowly starved to death.

And I have heard from a Japanese soldier about how everyone was starving and the will to fight was fading fast.

They were also starving on nearly every island and atoll that we fought them on as we island hopped across the Pacific. They also fought to the death of nearly every soldier (90%+) on every one of islands. That is from the historical record, not anecdotal.

reply to post by aching_knuckles




Hold on there- I don't think anyone believes it was a "good thing"- it was a necessary evil done in order to halt a worldwide conflict that had already caused countless death and destruction.I find it ironic and sickening that you would actually want that to continue for God knows how many more years.
And nice try but you can't compare Hiroshima to 9/11- Hiroshima was done during a declared war, on a nation refusing surrender, and had been warned the attacks were coming......

reply to post by Skippy1138


9/11 is exactly the same if you think about it. If you buy into the whole it was islamic terrorists BS, than it was done during a declared war(jihad) on a nation not willing to surrender to their ideals and close our strip bars and stuff. If you don't buy into it, and you think it was the government, then it was done on it's own people, that the government declared war on long ago, through the war on drugs.

reply to post by Skippy1138


That's fair enough, they are two different things but i know where that post was going, i think the point was the loss of civilian lives??

The targeting of what was a majority civilian target. I'm sure in years the terrorist may try ( but fail ) to justify 9/11 by saying '' well yes there were military or federal government targets in that building as well''

Or something like that. Once again i am not agreeing with the terror act or what it has caused.

I just think aching_knuckles was using it as an example to the cost of civilian lives in what the aggressor belived was a military like action.

Relative to us it's blatant terrorism, but they dont have stealth bombers or sophisticated hardware. Rememeber it's all relative.

FYI: For the record thank God they dont have a more sophisticated means of attack

Lets get off the 9/11 topic. It has been used as abstract references by some of us ( myself included ) but back to the main subject if possible.

Peace Out

I’m just imagining a court case with a man on trial for murder:

Judge: So you stabbed a stranger to death on a train?

Hero: Yes, your Honor. I know it was evil and I didn’t want to do it, but he told me that he hated people and that he was going to blow up a busy supermarket with a big bomb and kill a thousand people.
I thought back to the war and remembered how genocidal weapons of mass destruction saved millions of lives, and I thought it’s up to me to save those thousand people’s lives. I thought to myself what’s more evil? That one person is murdered, or a thousand people are murdered? So I killed him and prevented the loss of a thousand lives.

Judge: Very commendable indeed! For saving all those lives I’m going to recommend you for a bravery award and the Thanks of the City.
Case dismissed.

Errr…Just a minute…something doesn’t seem quite right there…

reply to post by aethron


yeah lol but when a government does it they call a pre-emptive first strike... ( i guess you meant this towards more recent events?? )

One has to be an idiot in denial to not see the perfect logic in using the bombs.

Some here rather the war continue, resulting in another year or so of fighting, bringing more total suffering on the Japanese people as well as American families at home, and more total deaths.

If you rather see more total deaths rather than use the bombs - you're sick.

Originally posted by FarArcher
One has to be an idiot in denial to not see the perfect logic in using the bombs.

Some here rather the war continue, resulting in another year or so of fighting, bringing more total suffering on the Japanese people as well as American families at home, and more total deaths.

If you rather see more total deaths rather than use the bombs - you're sick.

Haha... gotta love American style 'perfect logic'...Drop megabombs on densely populated cities to save lives in the Eternal War for Peace.

Makes you stop wondering why the USA is such a mess.

reply to post by aethron

Hey, Genius.

We didn't drop both the same moment!

We dropped one, thinking any ****ing group with a single brain cell could see the futility of continuing.

But NOOOOOOO. They wanted to fight to the last man, woman, and child, just as at Okinawa.

They wanted to kill just as many Americans on their way out as they could.

THEN - THEN we dropped the second, and damn if they almost didn't kill the Emperor and design to fight on.

Logic?

You question the logic?

It's real easy if you're a simple-mined candiass decades after the fact, where it's not urass on the line in the impending invasion.

Yah - I can see how you'd personally want to go hand to hand with rabid Japanese soldiers for the next 12+ months, so you could use your bayonet multiple times every day.

I can tell you're such a logical creature, that you'd much prefer to wipe out that person shooting at you with your superior marksmanship, only to find it was a girl. Or a mother. Or an old man.

I can see how you'd love to run the numbers up.

Instead of only killing 100,000 this week and the war is over - you'd like to continue the killing, continue the dying, continue the suffering, and continue the devastation.

Oh yeah.

Your logic is perfect.

After all, your way? We could literally justify killing millions.

reply to post by FarArcher


As I said earlier Japan had already been defeated before the bombs were dropped.
The Japanese military was totally crippled. All the largest Japanese cities had been destroyed by US bombers, and Japan was attempting to surrender, though the terms were not acceptable to the Americans.

The ideal, most humane and benevolent, step to take at this point would have been to blockade the Island and wait for the full Japanese surrender that must inevitably come.
The B52’s could have flown over and dropped food, medical supplies, tents etc for the ravished civilian population, which would have alleviated their suffering and proved to them that America places a high value on human life, and would rather not war even though the Japanese were foolish enough to start it.

Today would be very much more pleasant if they had done that.

The atomic weapons should have been given the highest classification of secrecy, so that even the potential of their existence would remain unknown.

It was act of madness to let this evil genie out of its bottle, to be an eternal menace to themselves, the rest of humanity, and the existence of Earthly life.

The dropping of the bombs might have ended the war a few weeks earlier than otherwise, but the long term price is the potential for nuclear terrorism at least, and Global Armageddon at worst.

What a tragic legacy to leave to future generations for such a pitifully short term gain.

reply to post by aethron

The Japanese had already been defeated?

Did you really say that?

Here's a clue - no one told the Japanese!

Here's another clue - we didn't have B-52's in 1945.

Here's another clue - you feed them and you'll still fight them, but now they're more dug in, more organized, and there will be even more total casualties.

Your assumptions are either out of time, out of possibility, impossible to carry out (supply food by air), or untenable.

Mercy WAS used.

It was quick, and it was as merciful as was available with the fewest total casualties.

reply to post by FarArcher


Sorry i have to clarify something:

You commeented and stated, i quote '' it was merciful and quick etc ''

Did you mean in regard to the Nuclear Bombs?

ok so for now i will assume that it what you meant but if i am wrong in that please correct me.

But assuming you did mean that, let's look at how quick and mercifull it was for many people:

The Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima

Power in undamaged areas of the city was even restored on August 7th, with limited rail service resuming the following day. Several days after the blast, however, medical staff began to recognize the first symptoms of radiation sickness among the survivors. Soon the death rate actually began to climb again as patients who had appeared to be recovering began suffering from this strange new illness. Deaths from radiation sickness did not peak until three to four weeks after the attacks and did not taper off until seven to eight weeks after the attack. Long-range health dangers associated with radiation exposure, such as an increased danger of cancer, would linger for the rest of the victims' lives, as would the psychological effects of the attack.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2bf65489c4db.gif[/atsimg]

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By the end of 1945, because of the lingering effects of radioactive fallout and other after effects, the Hiroshima death toll was probably over 100,000. The five-year death total may have reached or even exceeded 200,000, as cancer and other long-term effects took hold.


Read More

Radiation Effects on Humans:


At Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the few surviving doctors observed symptoms of radiation sickness for the first time. In his book Nagasaki 1945, Dr. Tatsuichiro Akizuki wrote of the puzzling, unknown disease, of symptoms that "suddenly appeared in certain patients with no apparent injuries." Several days after the bombs exploded, doctors learned that they were treating the effects of radiation exposure. "We were now able to label our unknown adversary 'atomic disease' or 'radioactive contamination' among other names. But they were only labels: we knew nothing about its cause or cure... Within seven to ten days after the A-bomb explosion, people began to die in swift succession. They died of the burns that covered their bodies and of acute atomic disease. Innumerable people who had been burnt turned a mulberry color, like worms, and died... The disease," wrote Dr. Akizuki, "destroyed them little by little. As a doctor, I was forced to face the slow and certain deaths of my patients."

Read More - Theres lots more info here, if you think an Atomic Bomb is quick and efficient.

The ones who died instantly were lucky compared to many survivors.

Although as per the point of this thread none of it should have happened in the first place. I am not trying to deflect blame for any other attrocities in WW2 but only trying to point out this was no great day in our history.

Originally posted by Havick007

Although as per the point of this thread none of it should have happened in the first place.

And it is all Japan's fault that they were bombed, all they had to do was surrender, but they refused to even after the first bomb was dropped. And even after the 2nd bomb was dopped it took the intervention of the emporer to force Japan to surrender!

I am not trying to deflect blame for any other attrocities in WW2 but only trying to point out this was no great day in our history.

Yes you are actually, and it was a great day in history, as it stopped the war, resulting in many lives being saved. Stop trying to avoid the facts and rewrite history.

reply to post by Havick007

Havick, you and some others on your thread are so far removed from reality, it's embarrassing.

You (those protesting this event) are a user. A parasite. A freeloader. A sponge.

You have no idea of the cost of anything. You have no idea of the price paid now and in the past that enables your parasitic lifestyle.

In 1945, you would have been drafted. You candiasses would have HAD to fight whether you wanted to or not. You would have been given a rifle and some grenades, pointed in the right direction, and you'd have had to sweat every minute of every day, wondering as those around you are dropping like flies, when it's going to be your turn.

Some units had greater than 100% casualties. A hundred-man unit would have sometimes had 150 men in that Company killed, wounded, or missing.

You very quickly quit making friends, as there's no point. You or them will soon be dead, and it's easier to look upon a body you don't really know, rather than know the slightest thing about them. Because that humanizes them.

Oh, no you're much more noble.

You've set such a high standard!

You're above the fray!

You'll do NOTHING untoward. You'll take advantage of NOTHING. You will gladly sacrifice your own life in a most horrendous, painful manner - and you will willingly sacrifice those around you in order to maintain your asinine nobility!

Why do you take this position?

Because you have no clue as to how much things cost. The world be damned, my friends and countrymen be damned, the whole nation can die, as long as we can maintain or noble high standard of behavior.

Never mind that noble high standards died years earlier.

Never mind that all the years of suffering and dying we can end this whole thing THIS WEEK.

No, we want to maintain our noble concepts, and kill millions more in a more noble effort. A higher plane.

I guarantee, you pretenders if there, if waiting the pending invasion as one of the participants, in one of the initial units that has projected 80% casualties, you'd be in the first row screaming to drop the damned bomb!

Drop it now!

I don't wanna die!

So let's cut the crap.

Watch the "Samurai" on the History Channel hosted by the Iron Chef America guy, mark dacascos.

Japan had a civil war because of foreign intervention. The Samurai fought themselves and in the end they closed Japan off to the outside world and executed all foreigners. The US Navy rolled in with their ships and told them to open up to trade or they would bomb their cities.

Japan came out of the stone age and started trading...forcing them to modernize. They used the same tactic WE used on them and spread around the Pacific after time. Then one day.....The United States STOPPED trading with Japan.

We refused to sell them crude oil/energy. Well Japan used the same tactic used on them...open up to trade...or be bombed. We chose to get bombed. We thought they were just going to bomb Guam so prior we evacuated all military dependents and only left a skeleton crew behind. We didn't know they would be bold enough to hit Pearl Harbor.

They hit Pearl Harbor...and took Guam. Why? We refused to trade with them, so they used our tactic we taught them....against us. Then we declare War on them?

Why? We were the ones that refused to trade with them. If you watch that documentary the Iron Chef America guy's grandparents were killed by the atomic blasts. If you listen to him it sounds like he thinks the Samurai have a right to strike back at America.

Maybe they will.

Towards the end of the war our GI's were cutting the heads off of japanese soldiers and sending headless bodies back to Japan. The Navy JAG was freaking out because we could have been held accountable for war crimes by Japan over that alone. MacArthur struck a deal with Japan forgiving them for the war crimes they committed against the people of Guam/Marianas.....in exchange for forgiving America for cutting all those heads off of Japanese soldiers. Thus to date every year Guam submitted a bill to the US Congress to be compensated for War Crimes committed against them by Japan......who were forgiven by America.

Problem is...the people of Guam weren't US citizens....America had no right to use them as a bartering tool to get forgiven for their War Crimes of sending headless japanese military from the marianas islands back to Japan.

Sick world eh? Where's all the Japanese heads? Classified........

reply to post by Pervius


I can't imagine where all those heads must be!

My guess is that they were accidentally shipped them home separately from the rest of the corpses, and the Japanese back home used the brains and eyeballs in some sort of exotic, spicy dish.

The US military does not have a problem targeting civilians even its own. Never have and never will. It is just that simple.

reply to post by Pervius

We quit selling steel primarily to Japan because they were spooling up for full war footing.

Did you happen to forget the actions of the Japanese that led to the embargo against Japan?

Seems we're getting mighty selective in the history we recall . . .