Pentagon - No camera footage = No plane. A reasonable assumption.

reply to post by phinubian


That's a cool story. It's hard to say whether it's true or not because what I am starting to see is, September 11th is like another Woodstock event where everyone you meet....was there!

If everyone I met who told me they were at the WTC helping out in the rescue, I think that island would've sunk from the weight.
So I have my doubts as to who was really there seeing there is no way of corroborating their story and just like Woodstock, if everyone I met was actually there, that concert would've held around 10 million people that weekend!

So....who knows.

If your buddy said he saw passengers in seats then all I can say is, I met someone who claimed he saw a flight attendant buckled in her seat, dressed in her uniform, on the street/base of the World Trade Center too (which I find extremely hard to believe)

But like I said, who knows

reply to post by mikelee


"Sept 12"?

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
oh it happened...
I was living at in an apartment building just down the corner of S.Courthouse Rd and Columbia Pike, the morning it happened a family member and I rushed down to the site only about a mile away...
We were there before and as the fire departments were arriving, we made it as far as a rental car outlet which used to be a gas station just before and underpass that led to the lawn at the pentagon.
One sure thing no one is mentioning here is the overwhelming smell of Aviation Fuel strong enough to make your eyes water... If anyone had been to a drag race they would know exactly what I am talking about, unfortunately for the folks not local or even on the other side of the Ocean they will never know.
I lived in Shawnee Apartments then, it was a horrible day !

edit on 12/26/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)

The smell of Aviation fuel
Really?
And this is compared with "a drag race?"
Really?
Really!
A commercial jet uses Jet-A.
Jet-A is a kerosene grade of fuel suitable for most turbine engined aircraft. It has a flash point above 38°C (100°F) and a freeze point maximum of -47°C. While Avgas has an Octane rating of 100/130 (for lean mixing).
The smell that they give off is as different as a skunk and roses! Besides, don't drag racers us Nitromethane or Ethonol? And those two smell different as well.
Better not let your gobermt handler read this or you'll be back peeling potatoes.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Americans have never trusted nor liked Canadians, and that happens to be one of the sure things we have rediscovered in the wake of 9/11

You are so knowledgeable about the "American experience". You should write your thoughts in a book. It will sell like hot cakes in Canada, America's largest trading partner and coalition ally, the country that sheltered your poor sick and hungry when US airspace was closed after 9/11. Just sleep it off Uncle Freddy.

reply to post by Human_Alien


You can see the photos by Googling the Moussaoui case picture evidence. I'm tired of linking that because I never save the link. It's publicly available. It's been around for over 9 years!

These 9/11 arguments are destined to be polar, why do they continue? It's ludicrous!

We have laymen telling us about engineering construction, Aviation, and things they know nothing about. They saw it on YouTube and also probably have little references in video post production applications. It 'Looks like', well you don't know! Do they work for an independent institution founded on the study of metallurgy like I do? I think most, if not all do not.

I also don't think thermite was in most of their vocabulary before 2005.

What is the point of all of this 9/11 bickering?

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Americans have never trusted nor liked Canadians, and that happens to be one of the sure things we have rediscovered in the wake of 9/11

edit on 12/26/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)

What?
You mean to say we weren't approving of the Canadians when they were the ONLY country that let in Americans during the Iran Hostage war? Or that we assisted with the intel on discovering that the Taliban was going to bomb Montreal? Are you related to WeedSmoker?
I see nothing truthful regarding your posts.
What I do want is the truth. Washington, hand over the videos!

Originally posted by phinubian
I also have a good former Army buddy of mine that was working in Manhattan at Price Water-house and he is from NY, he actually told me that he saw with his own eyes both planes hit the towers ...

You should ask him for more detail about this. What was his location?

It would be highly unusual for someone to actually see both planes hit the towers. Most people would not have seen the first hit because it was unexpected. A person in Manhattan at the time would have to change positions between the first hit and the second one to see both, since they came in from opposite directions.

It would be interesting to know where he was exactly. Some people say they saw things when they were miles from the action and unable to be certain what they were observing. Big plane, small plane, missile, bomb were all reported by eyewitnesses at the WTC on 9/11.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Americans have never trusted nor liked Canadians, and that happens to be one of the sure things we have rediscovered in the wake of 9/11

edit on 12/26/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)

Well with that little observation you just lost all credibility past, present and FUTURE and this is the type of logic that OS believers use? You didn't do your cause any good whatsoever.

I'm gonna bookmark this little gem and throw it up when ever you make a thread or post anything.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Eyewitness testimony is usually discarded in a court of law because of the human condition. Forensic evidence trumps eyewitness testimony all of the time because it can be proven.

reply to post by phinubian


quite a testimony...

wow are you saying there are people claiming that there were no planes that hit the towers in NY also ???

I find that almost sickeningly funny in a way !

I mine as well stay out of this section, just every time I keep logging in to this site in the past few hours this topic has been at the top of the page so I clicked it.

yeah man I am outta this here section... have fun fellas !

There's no doubt two planes hit the WTC Towers. That shouldn't even be a conspiracy. Its a waste of time even going there.

reply to post by Illustronic

This case is a can of worms with conflicting witness testimony and reasons to believe that other sorts of evidence was either planted, tampered with or concealed. The most obvious illustration would be the seizure of somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 videos related to the Pentagon incident and subsequent release of only a few frames of very questionable material.

There is no kind evidence that can not be manipulated. There is plenty of evidence that the Bush administration was one of the most manipulative administrations in the history of the United States.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Americans have never trusted nor liked Canadians, and that happens to be one of the sure things we have rediscovered in the wake of 9/11

You are so knowledgeable about the "American experience". You should write your thoughts in a book. It will sell like hot cakes in Canada, America's largest trading partner and coalition ally, the country that sheltered your poor sick and hungry when US airspace was closed after 9/11. Just sleep it off Uncle Freddy.

well the bulk of the Hijackers came thru Canadian borders and customs, Americans have had it with Canada in this day and age of the Internet overrun predominately with the sons of draft dodgers and drug addicts.

We will take the worlds sick and poor, Canada can have our undesirables and heroin addicts, sounds like a good deal to me !

go ahead sell my story all you want...

peace-out !

Originally posted by mikelee

source in photo

Above, what would prompt anyone (despite if they are FBI, NSA or whomever) to go around and pick up debris knowing full well that it is common knowledge that you do not pick up anything at a supposed crash site. Especially if you are law enforcement or any type if intelligence personnel, even the average citizen knows NOT to pick up such things. Amazingly but not surprisingly not one of the main stream media or pretty much anyone else has cited this. These two were never ID'd and why they are obviously picking up debris (or placing it) has never been looked into.

What a revealing photo! No Gobernmt ID's visible, not even a card with the Secure ID case. No rank, just some guys with fake looking bald heads with black ties, long white shirts, black pants and non regulation looking shoes.
Washington, show us the videos!
SnF!

ps
Oh wait, the guy in the foreground has his Secure ID in his shirt pocket. The black neck lanyard is Mil Reg.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
in other words even though we were right there seemingly within 20min after it happened, I still could not see anything at all except for the smoke, but we both could smell it... I know that smell very well.

I have no idea what size plane it was or much else except that smell.

Thanks for coming forward as a witness after the fact. I am intrigued by what you say about the smell. Having spent my career as a missile test technician I am familiar with the smell of various aircraft. A Boeing airliner would be using jet a-50 fuel, kerosene, and that would be the raw fuel smell you would have, kerosene. I am sure you know the smell of an airport with burnt jet fuel. I would not relate that to the smell around drag races which would be more that nitro smell.

There are a number of different propulsion systems used in various missiles. We always took precautions not to breathe the exhaust during launches because many fuels contain metal particles. Despite some precautions I couldn't help but breathe a bit on a few occasions and it is not pleasant, it kind of takes your breath away. Some of the propulsion systems used in these missiles might be more what I would think of at drag races. Or some smaller commuter planes like one witness I saw in the videos describe might use av-gas which would have a more familiar gasoline smell.

You didn't describe the smell you remembered as that common at an airport that services passenger jets which is what I would expect if it were a Boeing 757 as the OS goes. You say you have a vivid recollection of the smell, perhaps if you could provide a little more detail about your recollection this might help my curiosity a bit if you would be so kind as to elaborate some more. Thank you.

reply to post by Violater1


And why those particular pieces?
I don't recall dark green being either American Airlines nor Boeing.
Quite a few rivet holes too.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro

There have been numerous witnesses who have come forward totally backing the Bush administation's version of the Pentagon incident, but whose actual testimony, when looked into, contradicts that version. "Uncle Freddy" is just the latest.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Americans have never trusted nor liked Canadians, and that happens to be one of the sure things we have rediscovered in the wake of 9/11

edit on 12/26/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)

Well with that little observation you just lost all credibility past, present and FUTURE and this is the type of logic that OS believers use? You didn't do your cause any good whatsoever.

I'm gonna bookmark this little gem and throw it up when ever you make a thread or post anything.

edit on 26-12-2010 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

good deal buddy

I have openly stated on this board since I have been here that I personally do not like Canadians or British people hardly at all, I am thinking about adding it to my sig... They are so lame they will not even post their location and for good reason... this site happens to be hosted in a "Freedom of Speech" country.

ever hear of a jet funny car



yes that day smelt very similar to the race track !

friggin weirdo's man I tell ya...

reply to post by mikelee



Any local police officer will confirm for you the explanation of the word "evidence".

Unfortunately, zero evidence was presented of any large airplane crash on the pentagon lawn that day. In fact the only engine evidence photographed and presented as evidence is that of a global hawk, which fits the descriptions of a small plane, or a commuter flight as promoted by some drivers/witnesses that day.

A global hawk and NOT a 757/767...is a "plane of interest" in this investigation.