Meet the Real Star of Bethlehem

We all know the story of the Star of Bethlehem believed to have heralded the birth of Jesus Christ whose life and times spawned a religion that changed the world.

Yet it’s no secret that Jesus was not born on the 25th of December, in the year 0 as many of us celebrate each year.

No Roman Census in the Year 0

The Bible tells us that Mary and Joseph were in Bethlehem to take part in the Roman Census that had been decreed but the these Censuses were conducted in 6 B.C. and 8 AD not the year 0, when Jesus was alleged to have been born.

The Census of Quirinius refers to the enrollment of the Roman Provinces of Syria and Iudaea for tax purposes taken in AD 6/7 during the reign of the Roman Emperor Augustus (27 BC - AD 14), when Publius Sulpicius Quirinius was appointed governor of Syria, after the banishment of Herod Archelaus and the imposition of direct Roman rule on what became Iudaea Province (the conglomeration of Samaria, Judea proper, and Idumea).[1] An account of the census was given by the 1st century historian Josephus,[2] who associated it with the beginning of a resistance movement that he called the Zealots. The census provoked revolt because censuses are forbidden under Jewish law.[citation needed]

en.wikipedia.org...

Further the Romans never conducted Censuses in the middle of winter, but most often in the autumn after the crops had come in, and people were in their homes not in the fields, and travel wasn’t impeded by snow and inclement weather.

During the cold winter months the average Sheppard would not have been watching their flocks by night, but hunkered down under a warm roof with a warmer fire.

Where did the Date of the 25th of December Come From?

The Bible itself was rather vague on the actual date and the actual date of December 25th wasn’t decided upon until 400 years later by Pope Julius I.

Pope Saint Julius I, was pope from February 6, 337 to April 12, 352.

He was a native of Rome and was chosen as successor of Mark after the Roman seat had been vacant for four months. He is chiefly known by the part he took in the Arian controversy. After the followers of Eusebius of Nicomedia, who was now the Patriarch of Constantinople, had renewed their deposition of Athanasius as bishop of Alexandria, at a synod held in Antioch in 341, they resolved to send delegates to Constans, Emperor of the West, and also to Julius, setting forth the grounds on which they had proceeded. Julius, after expressing an opinion favourable to Athanasius, adroitly invited both parties to lay the case before a synod to be presided over by himself. This proposal, however, the Arian Eastern bishops declined to accept.

en.wikipedia.org...

The date selected was no accident since a number of pagan festivals were celebrated mid winter, Yule was celebrated in Pagan Europe while Saturnalia was celebrated in Rome where once a year Masters and Slaves would trade places.

Yule or Yule-tide ("Yule-time") is a winter festival that was initially celebrated by the historical Germanic people as a pagan religious festival, though it was later absorbed into, and equated with, the Christian festival of Christmas. The festival was originally celebrated from late December to early January on a date determined by the lunar Germanic calendar. The festival was placed on December 25 when the Christian calendar (Julian calendar) was adopted. Scholars have connected the celebration to the Wild Hunt.

en.wikipedia.org...

Saturnalia became one of the most popular Roman festivals. It was marked by drunken orgies, tomfoolery and reversal of social roles, in which slaves and masters ostensibly switched places, much like the Lord of Misrule in later Christian celebrations.

en.wikipedia.org...

Yet one very important God of the day was born on December 25th and that god is the Persian God Mithra.

Mithra (Miθra), (Persian, مِهر، میترا or میثره) is the Avestan language name of the Zoroastrian divinity (yazata) of covenant and oath.

In addition to being the divinity of contracts, Mithra is also a judicial figure, an all-seeing protector of Truth, and the guardian of cattle, the harvest and of The Waters. In Middle Iranian languages (Middle Persian, Parthian etc.), 'Mithra' became 'Mehr', 'Myhr' etc., from which New Persian and Armenian Mihr ultimately derive.

en.wikipedia.org...

In this way the Pope ensured that Jesus would take center stage in a world where people were refusing to abandon these holidays by now making the birth of Jesus the center of these Holidays.

Zoroastrianism

But what about the Star of Bethlehem that the three wise men were alleged to have followed to Bethlehem marking the spot where Jesus was born?

Here we run into another problem, where the three Magi have long been considered by many scholars to be Zoroastrianism priests, astrologers following the teachings of the prophet Zoroaster who happened to also be Persian.

Zoroastrianism is a religion and philosophy based on the teachings of prophet Zoroaster (also known as Zarathustra, in Avestan) and was formerly among the world's largest religions.[1] It was probably founded some time before the 6th century BCE in Persia (Iran). The term Zoroastrianism is, in general usage, essentially synonymous with Mazdaism (the worship of Ahura Mazda, exalted by Zoroaster as the supreme divine authority).

en.wikipedia.org...

However here we run into another problem as this religion only came to prominence in the 6th Century, 600 years after Christ was alleged to have been born.

As the Sassanid Empire that gave birth to Mithra and the prophet Zoroaster was gradually supplanted by Islam.

This by the way would be the same Persian Sassanid Gnostic religion that largely influenced St. Augustus of Hippo who was largely responsible for the City of God concepts written into the Christian Bible.

So Where does the Star of Bethlehem fit in?

Well not very well, but it appears to have been a real phenomenon according to modern astronomers using computer models to trace the sky backwards.



The Star of Bethlehem was no Star at all though but a rare conjunction of Saturn often known as the King of Planets, and Regulus often known as the King of Stars.

search.yahoo.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Mark Thompson of the Royal Astronomical Society this rare conjunction of Jupiter in Retrograde converging with Regulus would have created a spectacular display in the sky and is believed to have happened on three occasions the first being on the 14th of September 3BC another on the 17th of February 2 BC and then on the 8th of May 2 BC.

www.phenomenica.com...

So all these took place prior to the year 0 When Christ was considered to have been born, and neither during one of the Roman censuses that where alleged to have been why Mary and Joseph were in Jerusalem.

While Christmas remains a wonderful time of year of for billions of people to enjoy comity and good will gift giving and prayer and faith, the truth is that about the only thing true for sure about Christmas is that Pope Julius I decreed it.

Proto’s Christmas present to the world is NOT reminding everyone who else had a name Julius!

I absolutely don't understand how anybody follows a star or the moon or a planet to a particular location on Earth

... however, it might be possible to follow a helicopter or quadrotor or something hovering just a little bit closer to the ground.

Originally posted by quantum_flux
I absolutely don't understand how anybody follows a star or a planet to a particular location on Earth

You have obviously never heard of Paris Hilton or Nicole Richey who are followed to particular locations on earth sometimes with such extreme precision in cases like Lindsey Lohan ankle bracelets are even used!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You have obviously never heard of Paris Hilton or Nicole Richey who are followed to particular locations on earth sometimes with such extreme precision in cases like Lindsey Lohan ankle bracelets are even used!

You have evidence that three "wise astronomers" apparently followed those stars somewhere?

3 problems with all this "research" material you cited:

1. Wikipedia is NOT a valid research tool!
2. Mithraism was from 600 BCE thats 600 years BEFORE Jesus was supposedly born.
3. It has long been suggested that the "Star" was a comet.

Just because you cite a whole bunch of crap facts and figures, gives no actual proof to anything.

next time do some real research and leave wiki out of ANY equation.

Oh and btw the Romans only counted Roman citizens. The riffraff of the occupied territories were not considered in a Roman Census.

reply to post by quantum_flux


I am checking on that angle right now even was I type this.

I am not sure if Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan and Nicole Richey will accept my invitation but if I do, I plan to photograph any wise men who might follow them!

Hei, so many things on Christmas! I will answer only two, hoping someone else will do the rest.

First, everyone who is in that matter, knows that Jesus is born not in the year 0 but at least 4 years before, in 4 BC so to say. That is a well known error of a roman historian that repeats itself over and over, because all the dating is interconnected

And last, Saturn, Jupiter etc theories, they are so many! Only to explain how the star of Bethlehem is not extraordinary at all! Giotto first painted Haley comet because he saw it, that cannot be the case of course. Haven't you heard of comets that pass by only once - so elongated and unstable their orbits are? They come from Oort cloud and never come back. Or another celestial body that we would call otherwise - a supernova, a quasar, or a perhaps a special UFO ship with strong enough lights piloted by angels to show the crib of baby Jesus to the magi? I think the king of the kings deserves such on His birthday. All comes to that - do we believe or not. If we do, we will find our own Bethlehem star to lead us.

Originally posted by redbarron626
3 problems with all this "research" material you cited:

1. Wikipedia is NOT a valid research tool!
2. Mithraism was from 600 BCE thats 600 years BEFORE Jesus was supposedly born.
3. It has long been suggested that the "Star" was a comet.

Just because you cite a whole bunch of crap facts and figures, gives no actual proof to anything.

next time do some real research and leave wiki out of ANY equation.

Oh and btw the Romans only counted Roman citizens. The riffraff of the occupied territories were not considered in a Roman Census.

edit on 24-12-2010 by redbarron626 because: (no reason given)

1. When I use Wikipedia it is to establish the basic premise of something. For instance Wikipedia has an article on the Sun would you like to now attempt to prove that Wikipedia has given us bad information and there is no Sun.

2. Reading comprehension can be your friend, Zoroastrianism is what I said came 600 years after the year 0 not Mithra.

3. It's been suggested the Star of Bethlehem is everything from a UFO, Commet, to an actual star but in the case of THIS THREAD a conjuction between Saturn and Regulus.

Now having said that all that, you have not only failed to comprehend the piece based on what is written in it, but have failed to list any sources for your belief that the Star of Bethlehem is a commet.

Just because you claim a thread has a bunch of 'crap' sources, facts and figures, basically only proves that you like telling members in unflattering ways you don't like their threads.

Thanks for explaining this is based on poor reading comprehension skills in your case!

reply to post by Gliese581

Hei, so many things on Christmas! I will answer only two, hoping someone else will do the rest.

I know a lot of people have strong feelings about Christmas.

Last year I did a thread on Norad tracking Santa which some people had fun with but many thought just wasn't ATS enough, so this year I decided to do something more controversial for Christmas.

I thought it wasn't interesting piece on the conjuction.

Thanks for posting.

"We often place a lot of emphasis in the gospels of Matthew and Luke on the events leading up to the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem It is quite interesting, moreover, to observe what happened in those days after the birth of Jesus.

There is good evidence that Jesus was born in 5 B.C. in the town of Bethlehem while Herod was still living (Matthew 2:1-6). The death of Herod the Great occurred in 4 B.C., a short time after an eclipse of the noon. The modern calendar of dating B.C. and A.D. was developed by Dionysius Exiguus. His calculations are off by about four years. So Christ was not born at 0 years, but about B.C. 4 or 5.

From the context of Matthew chapter two and secular history, Jesus was born in the closing months of Herod the Great’s reign and He returned from Egypt soon after Herod’s death (vv. 19-23). It is probably impossible to be more specific as to the time of Jesus’ birth. The important thing is it is well documented in history. His birth took place at a specific time and place during the reign of Herod the Great in Judea.

Joseph and Mary were both of Davidic descent, whose native city was Bethlehem (1 Sam. 17:12). The prophet Micah had foretold the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2). It was in Bethlehem, David’s city that the Jews expected David’s greater Son to be born; it was there that they expected God’s Anointed One to come into the world.

The little town of Bethlehem was located six miles south of Jerusalem in a fertile area of Judah. it was also called Ephratah or Ephrath. Bethlehem mans House of Bread. The town sat on a 2500 foot ridge. It was here in a cave near the village that that Justin Martyr (c. A.D. 150) said Jesus was born." www.abideinchrist.com...

After the birth of Jesus, Mary and Joseph were probably staying for some time in Bethlehem. After the presentation of Jesus in the Temple the writer Matthew gives us “one of the strongest proofs of His Messiahship.” It is the coming of Gentiles and the “premonitions of this greatest event of world history.” “Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem . . .” (Matthew 2:1). Wise men from Persia or Babylon saw His special star and went to the beautiful country that had been home to King David, who was born in Bethlehem

"Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him" (Matthew 2:2).

"Wise men" came to worship Jesus from the East, probably Persia (Iran), Arabian or Babylon who were skilled in philosophy, medicine and natural science. They studied astrology, religion and were interpreters of dreams. It is probably best to translate magoi as “wise men” in the good sense of learned astrologers. Even though it was a sign that led them to Jerusalem, it was the Scriptures that guided them to Bethlehem. They conjectured that "His star" indicated that He had just been born or would be shortly.

There is no reason for assigning these Magi certain names, or to say that there were three. And, no, their bones were not found in the fourth century in the Cathedral of Cologne. To say there were three wise men is an inference from the three gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

Tacitus, Suetonius, and Josephus bear testimony that a messianic hope existed at the time in the East. Tacitus had written of a firm persuasion in the Orient that at this very time “the East was to grow powerful, and rulers coming from Judea were to acquire universal empire.”

"Where is he who has been born King of the Jews" (v. 2). Almost at the same time as Jesus was born we find Augustus, the Roman Emperor, being hailed as the "Savior of the World." When Jesus was born, there was an eagerness of expectation. Men were waiting for God. It was to a waiting world that Christ came. The Magi who saw the “star” were seeking the light of the World.

There are various scholarly opinions as to the character of the star. The great astronomer Kepler observed in 1603 A.D. an unusual conjunction of stars, and found by diligent search that in 747 A.U.C. or 7B.C. there was a similar conjunction three times, of Jupiter and Saturn in Pisces. In 6 B.C. Mars joined the conjunction. Kepler therefore placed the birth of Jesus in 6 B.C. The Chinese astronomical tables testify to the appearance of an evanescent star, probably a comet, in February 750 A.U.C. This trustworthy tale of the Chinese would agree with the date approximately of the birth of Jesus.

"After coming into the house they saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. Then, opening their treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh" (Matthew 2:11).

Gold is the gift for a king. We must always meet Jesus in complete submission to Him.

Frankincense is the gift of a priest who opens the way to God for men. Jesus opened the way to God.

Myrrh is the gift for one who is to die. Myrrh was used to embalm the bodies of the dead. Jesus was born in order to die for our sins.

The providence of God intervened to protect the Messiah, and an angel in a dream warned the Magi not to return to Herod in Jerusalem, but depart to their own country. It may well be that Joseph and Mary left at the same time for Egypt. Herod, the Idumean King, had so much blood on his hands that he would spare no effort to destroy the Messiah. Herod was not a Jew, his father was an Idumean and his mother an Arabian. He was not a descendent of King David. He had Edomite blood in his veins. The “enmity” between Satan and the seed of the woman was fiercely at work (Gen. 3:15).

"And having been warned by God in a dream not to return to Herod, the magi left for their own country by another way."

Peace to all over this holiday season

reply to post by the2ofusr1


Thanks for sharing that. Forensically I doubt there will ever be a way to piece together the precise details of what may have happened back then but it makes a wonderful story for people who find hope or meaning in such things.

To me what I find the most interesting is how Rome basically used the Holiday to supplant other ones at that time.

I hope you have a wonderful holiday, thanks for posting.

Here is another video from Coast to Coast AM/Radio talking about this same theory.

Originally posted by redbarron626
3 problems with all this "research" material you cited:

1. Wikipedia is NOT a valid research tool!
2. Mithraism was from 600 BCE thats 600 years BEFORE Jesus was supposedly born.
3. It has long been suggested that the "Star" was a comet.

Just because you cite a whole bunch of crap facts and figures, gives no actual proof to anything.

next time do some real research and leave wiki out of ANY equation.

Oh and btw the Romans only counted Roman citizens. The riffraff of the occupied territories were not considered in a Roman Census.

edit on 24-12-2010 by redbarron626 because: (no reason given)

Seriously? Of course Wiki is a valid research tool that should be cross checked. What isn't valid is your unreferenced statements. Your opinion isn't a valid reference tool.

I still find this interesting-

In his work, Arthur C. Clarke often employed pathos to contrast the human scale against the immense scale of the universe. When he once mused on TV that the Star of Bethlehem had in fact been a supernova, now pulsar PSR 1913+16B, he added:

How romantic, if even now, we can hear the dying voice of a star which heralded the Christian era. ogleearth.com...

"No other known object or type of explosion could be seen by the naked eye at such an immense distance," says Swift science team member Stephen Holland of Goddard. "If someone just happened to be looking at the right place at the right time, they saw the most distant object ever seen by human eyes without optical aid."

GRB 080319B's afterglow was 2.5 million times more luminous than the most luminous supernova ever recorded, making it the most intrinsically bright object ever observed by humans in the universe..The brief appearance of a point of light in the heavens presents us with two elements to help us interpret what it means. We know both where and when it appeared. This sign appeared in the region of the sky known as Bootes, a decan of the constellation Virgo. The meaning of Bootes is, "He Cometh," a reference to the coming of the Messiah in judgment. This, you can study out yourself in the online works of Bullinger and Rolleston, and you will see that the star names give a clear picture that this is the message that has been passed down through the ages as preserved by the Creator for our benefit. www.theopenscroll.com...

quoted from the guy two up from me. He wrote:
Seriously? Of course Wiki is a valid research tool that should be cross checked. What isn't valid is your unreferenced statements. Your opinion isn't a valid reference tool.
end quote.


Wiki is NOT valid by anyone for any means necessary. Even colleges will fail you out if you cite one thing from Wiki. The reason it's not counted as valid for citing is that ANYONE and EVERYONE can go in and edit, change, add, it. What they should do with wiki is stop that and just allow authorized people to edit things as needed. I bet 99% of Wiki would change drastically on most every article.
When you allow the world access to change things, and when the world each has their own opinions of things, you're going to have a mishmashed mush up of information, disinformation and the like. If you see how much a single wiki article is changed on any given day, it's eyeopening.

Say someone put up a wiki centuries ago and said the world was flat. Well everyone knew that as fact. But some said it was round. That's a bad analogy. Let's try another.

Heck, just look at this website to have good examples! I say aliens definitely exist. If for example I post a thread saying that aliens are short statured, around 3'4'' tall, with extremely tiny and thin heads but 2' long arms and speak Cyrillic, someone else will come along and tweak that info to fit what they feel is correct. they may change it to 2.3" arms or 3'5" tall. Who would know the difference if one is not schooled in the correct format of it all?
We can use that example for pretty much anything out there. SOME of wiki is correct and not messed with but the majority is basically made up of opinions and 'what we think is correct'.
THAT is why it is not a valid source for citations or to be a sole provider of 'be all/end all'.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

2. Reading comprehension can be your friend, Zoroastrianism is what I said came 600 years after the year 0 not Mithra.

This is absolutely false.

Zoroastrianism has a range of 9000BC to 2000 BC, the hard part is pinpointing the exact date. To my understanding, 9000BC seems a bit far fetched, I'd guess more in the areas of 3000 BC to 1500 BC. Of course, this is just a hunch.

As to why it is absolutely false?

Cyrus the Great was a follower of Zartosht. Do you know when Cyrus the Great ruled over Persia?

559 BC–530 BC

Wikipedia link right back at you

Edit: I will also have to ask you to research what you are told or have read about Zoroastrianism, I will give you a headstart: Good words, Good deeds, Good self reflection.

reply to post by Zamini


Here is the incredible thing for people still SUFFERING from reading comprehension problems I did in fact say Zoroastrianism came 600 after the year 0 not Mithra.

Now regardless of when Zoroastrianism came into play the statement is still true in that I said what I said.

That does not mean I was not wrong in regards to Zoroastrianism origin in date as a movement, but nor does it mean that I said Mithrism started at that point in time.

Now for some reason some people seem to be having a bit of a problem comprehending about what the thread is really about. Some people think it's about Wikipedia and it's not, the source information about what the thread is really about the STAR OF BETHLEHEM is not sourced by Wikipedia, but three different sources all of which are listed.

The thread is about whether the Star of Bethlehem was a conjuction between Jupiter and Regulus.

I added some other source material to deal with some of the other things that came up in the source material regarding the star of Bethlehem so people who might have never heard of those things could get a little background information.

So with all due respect anyone who can't even make it to the actual topical portion of the thread in my book to play psuedo intellectual over some long dead religion is really just trying to impress me of what a pseudo intellectual they are, since what they aren't doing is actually discussing the topic of the thread.

Now unlike some people I don't actually mind, in fact I appreciate when people point out an error that I might have made in a thread. What I don't appreciate is people just doing it in the most tactless manner that they possibly can, especially when you look at their profiles and see that they basically CONTRIBUTE NEXT TO NOTHING OF VALUE TO ATS except snipes and gripes.

I misread one source that should have been 600BC instead of 600AD.

Now I will put my posting history up against yours or anyone else who can't see beyond that any day of the week.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Here is the incredible thing for people still SUFFERING from reading comprehension problems I did in fact say Zoroastrianism came 600 after the year 0 not Mithra.

Are you saying Zoroastrianism came to be 600 AD?

I don't care about your post history. You can't make a typo like that. 600 BC is still WAY off.

''Past performance does not guarantee future results''

The thread is about whether the Star of Bethlehem was a conjuction between Jupiter and Regulus.

Then leave your false information regarding Zoroastrianism out of this. Dead religion? This proves even more how clueless you are. Zoroastrianism is not a religion and it is certainly not dead. I don't question the quality of your previous threads, in fact I think I have starred and flagged some. So before you start carrying feelings, let go of the whole ego thing alright?

Edit:

What I don't appreciate is people just doing it in the most tactless manner that they possibly can

And what I don't appreciate is people stepping on the roots of billions in the most tactless manner they possibly can by posting false information and brushing it off as 'background information'.

It has also been suggested that the Star was actually an Angel.
Most likely Michael.

There are many references in the bible that tells us Stars are synonymous with Angels.

reply to post by Zamini


Well guess what, the two hour limit to make edits in the Original Post is long gone. But once again it is not relevant to the topic of the thread. Beyond the fact that the correct information has since been posted into the thread.

Which could have just as easily been done in a cordial manner by anyone with the social skills to appreciate that collabaration is a useful thing in any endeavor and especially here on ATS, which is why having some more posting experience under your belt would be truly helpful.

The topic of the thread is Star of Bethlehem not dysfunctional personalities thanks!