Why isn't this discussed more? This is the most compelling..

Operation Paperclip, the secret project by the United States to take thousands of German scientists and those associated with advanced German technology to the US, saw it established in military R&D bases, many of which were in and around the Nevada and New Mexico region. As the war was coming to a conclusion, General Hans Kammler – who was in trusted to lead and manage Germany’s most classified aviation projects – was rumoured to be intent in giving himself over to the Americans in exchange for his freedom. Some of those projects included the Horton flying wing and the almost mythical Die Glocke, the ‘Bell’, or ‘wonder weapon’. At the Nuremberg trial that saw some of Nazi Germany’s hierarchy convicted and executed for war crimes, Hans Kammer’s name was barely mention despite being directly responsible for certain crimes. But then he wasn’t present, for he simply vanished after the war. However, there were those that were convicted at the trial in their absence – but Kammler was not one of them, adding fuel to the rumours that he had gotten an agreement with one of the Allied powers.

We know that Project Paperclip brought thousands of German scientists over to America and that the Nazi’s were exploring disc aircraft – partly due to documents recovered, and also the testimony of John Carver Meadows Frost (the brainchild behind the the Avro car) who openly admitted that his research was inspired by German scientists who explained the mechanics of disc aviation to him. It’s also a fact that the famous Roswell crash happened in New Mexico, where some of those scientists were located in – in fact it was only two years after the war until the US was experiencing discs and orbs over it’s skies, similar to what pilots were seeing over Germany just years before.

About two years later however, the Kecksburg UFO incident occurred. Witnesses described the strange object to be shaped like an acorn, with one actually describing it as a ‘bell’. Some speculate the recovered object was taken to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and there is evidence, although circumstantial, to support that theory. It’s believed that the Die Glocke, the bell shaped anti-gravitation object, was surrounded by ceramic bricks. A company was called by Wright-Patterson Air Force Base to make a delivery of a significant amount of ceramic material – the driver of that truck actually said that he felt they wanted to entomb it after seeing the bell object in a hanger at the base itself. Is there a link there? Was this a technology recovered from Germany?

At the same time as the US military made that infamous press release that they had discovered a flying saucer back in Roswell almost twenty years previously to the Kecksburg incident, Viktor Schauberger in Germany sat reading the paper one morning stunned at this and later reports of discs over the United States. He was telling reporters, and anyone who was willing to listen to him, that these were his discs – his technology. Who is Schauberger? He is believed by some to have created an anti-gravitation device, a small one, that’s disc in shape. He is supposedly one of the names cited for the inspiration behind the Avro car. Is that a link between Nazi Germany and the UFO sightings in the US?

But even the Kenneth Arnold sightings are interesting when you compare the similarity between his drawings of the objects he saw and the German Horton 229



And there were nine of them as well, just like the Arnold sightings.



Some of have speculated that after the war German officials who escaped the allied forces retreated to South America and even the Antartic. There is something to support that too, the Germans certainly did go to the Antartic in the 1930’s and claimed a part of it for Germany. The Argentinean (significant sightings in South America even to this day) president in the 40’s is known to have approved around 1,000 passports for Germans after the war. And then there’s of course Operation Highjump in 1946, officially a trip to review the threat of a Soviet influence from the poles, but unofficially said to evaluate whether there is a Nazi presence. Admiral Byrd, leading the taskforce of the largest armada sent to the Antartic – with supplies that could last 8 months – led his ships back after only 16 weeks, and added that the US must be ready for craft that can fly from “pole to pole”. Is that a link between Nazi Germany and flying discs?

This relationship between Germany and the UFO phenomena’s history is certainly the most compelling in terms of evidence. What it does not answer of course is where the Germans got this technology from. Well, according to one of their scientists working on the wonder weapon (cant remember his name, speed typing this), he was communicated with extraterrestrials.

I tend to believe there really is something to the Nazi saucer craft, and the Vril Society channelling Aldebaran. I think it very possible they may have had ET contact. I have heard 2 people, Von Braun being one, claimed they did have contact, and was technologically assisted. It could be a romantic fantasy, but something about the Haunebu and Vril craft just feels real to me.

Originally posted by Shino
This relationship between Germany and the UFO phenomena’s history is certainly the most compelling in terms of evidence.

I think there are two answers to the question in your thread title:

(1) Theories linking reports of UFOs (and, during World War II "foo fighters") to nazi secret weapons have been discussed in numerous UFO books. I'd be happy to give you some references to discussion in UFO books of Operation Paperclip and some of the individuals mentioned in your OP.

(2) These theories aren't discussed more because the evidence supporting them is pretty weak. Some of the UFO material was fabricated by nazi sympathisers - none of it can be taken at face value.

By the way, I think you would be interested in (but probably have already seen) Nick Cook's book on UFOs and his related Channel 4 TV documentary: "Nick Cook Presents UFOs The Secret Evidence"



All the best,

Isaac

interesting to say the least,
possible links to the Nazi "Bell" and the "Acorn" from Pen.
Expanding on Operation Paperclip for a moment...
I've also read that, not only scientists were brought
here to the u.s., but Intel. personnel also were
"dropped" in our lap. Creating such Horrific Agencies
as the C.I.A., N.S.A. and likely more. It is
staggering, the legacy of the NAZIS. and the influence
they still have over the world,even today.

It is my personal belief and has been for some time that the UFO's or disk shaped, cigar shaped craft are nothing more than man made "UFO's". The technology they're using is far more advanced than anything we know about. Just a question, it seems pretty obvious that over the last 60 years or so that these UFO's have changed, from unstable looking craft to craft that we very rarely actually see anymore, lights and energy fields are what we see now. Does it seem likely that the objects that were captured on film seem to have evolved over the last half century. And if technology has evolved we must ask why. How is it possible that "aliens" traveled all this way then had to modify their craft, make changes etc? I believe they(the gov't) have anti-gravity tech, and the ability to travel at tremendous speeds. What interests me the most are the orbs that seem to be able to disappear and reappear at will. These orbs have also been seen by NASA in space and are intriguing, because we have seen these outside our atmosphere. Be very wary of alien disclosure because we all know the TPTB have no interest in sharing truth with the people. They only share what is beneficial to them. Just my 2 cents, have a good one.

reply to post by Shino


greetings, I wonder the same thing all the time..

have you delved into how oak ridge figured into things? doe and human dna

reply to post by Shino


some things were also taken to chanute.. back then it was a Major low key spot..

there is even a manly hall..

I watched a great informative documentary on this subject yesterday. I am not sure how old it is and where it has been aired but the first part is linked here for you. The program seems to link almost every major UFO incident in history to the work of the nazis/project paperclip scientists work. Enjoy.

The Nazi - UFO connection is super interesting. I really wish there was way more literature and documentation available to investigate.

There are many Holy Grails in this one...Just think if we had some classified documents about Operation Highjump with no redactions. That would be intense. Or actual blueprints of how to make Die Glocke.

You know how Star Wars isn't just a few movies, it's an entire fantasy - galaxy where countless new stories are possible to be told, by anyone who can look into that realm of imagination.

Nazi Lore has become equivilant to Star Wars in many similar respects. You can come up with anything by speculating about Nazi possibilities. It's infinite, because we are using our imaginations.

That's not a bad thing, I love speculation and hearing legends. Part of me likes to consider many legends at least partially true, although perhaps distorted somewhat. Nazi UFO legend is nice because it comes with tons of stories and angles to it and there are photos. It corresponds well to known factual history, it also corresponds with tons of ufo photographs nicely.

Did the Nazi's go to the moon? I have no idea, because I wasn't there to witness everything.

In the field of Nazi UFO speculation we need to be VERY careful to remember we are merely speculating. Because we really don't know what the truth is yet, we are only following a few trails of bread crumbs here.

It is super easy to get carried away when pondering Nazi stuff.

That's why I compared Nazi Lore with Star Wars Lore. They are 'galaxies of infinite story-telling potential".
Good examples would be Indiana Jones. Or maybe that game Return To Castle Wolfenstein.

There just isn't any way to know what really happened without being there or seeing some really concrete solid evidence...

Also, the Arnold Drawings do look very similar to the Horton.

I would propose that what he saw was an advanced version based on the Horton design. The cockpit sizes are way different in proportion to the size of the fuselage.

What is the most significant and uncanny "coincidence" is the markings on the wings. The Cross Insignia.

The wing insignia is a dead give away of who is behind it.

Thanks for posting the comparison photos. It is really amazing especially because the Arnold sighting was where the term "flying saucer" was coined, because he said they "skipped across the sky". It is one of the most famous and credible sightings in history as well. Arnold seems quite credible, so perhaps he really did see some sort of Nazi Secret Aircraft??

What were they doing in the backwoods of America?
And why wasn't the USAF chasing them?

I sincerely doubt the existance of the Nazi saucers,They are i believe a fabrication of Ernst Zundle the hollocaust denyer from canada.
The first mention of these were brought out by zundle as far as i know.His were the first i ever heard...
Its all more nazi propaganda just like the last reich, which was built on Bullcrap.

the masses are brainwashed and are not told this by cnn

Originally posted by Shino
(snip)
But even the Kenneth Arnold sightings are interesting when you compare the similarity between his drawings of the objects he saw and the German Horton 229

(snip)

Your fanciful Arnold drawing is someone else's fantasy. Here is the real Arnold drawing with his signature above and below it. Unless Arnold had super-vision I doubt that he really saw anything like he describes and draws.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d06474b54fdf.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by The Shrike


Interesting. So that first one is a artist's concept of what they were told? Hmm. Why the hell would a concept artist put the German Luftwaffe's insignia on the wingtips of a US-bound UFO sighting? Bizarre.

That drawing your are claiming to be the "real" original drawing looks a LOT like the "Flying Pancake".
flying pancake

The body shapes are almost identical.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by The Shrike

 

Interesting. So that first one is a artist's concept of what they were told? Hmm. Why the hell would a concept artist put the German Luftwaffe's insignia on the wingtips of a US-bound UFO sighting? Bizarre.

That drawing your are claiming to be the "real" original drawing looks a LOT like the "Flying Pancake".
flying pancake

The body shapes are almost identical.

edit on 23-12-2010 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

Actually, Arnold is seen holding more than one version of drawings that had to have been done by non-witnesses and you'd think that he would have corrected the artists and straightened them out to represent what you see in his hand-drawn sketch but he had been thrown into a scenario he probably never dreamt about so he just milked it for all its worth. This happens to people thrust into the spotlight by virtue of a world news event.

The one that comes to mind most often is that of detective James R. Leavelle who was escorting Lee Harvey Oswald through the basement of Dallas Police headquarters when Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby. Whenever you watch the film of the escot look at James. He is seen looking to his right for the vehicle that Lee is going to ride in when Ruby comes out of the left and shoots Lee. James can be heard in interviews saying that he saw Ruby out of the corner of his eyes and started to pull Lee towards him. This is pure bull 'cause he is taken by surprise. He would have impressed the world if he had owned up to the fact that he never saw Ruby approach Lee and was taken by surprise. James and Kenneth, the truth is immaterial.

But with Kenneth, there is a bigger effect on the world and your example proves it.

reply to post by Shino


Shhh. Not supposed to talk about the third Reich still going on. People aren't supposed to know that we were literally coup de gra'd after WW2, or that international billionaires have never actually wanted a one world order, or that our history has been completely re-written minus the facts. Hopefully everything we've now discussed will be categorized as "thought crimes" in the future, will keep us (listening) safe (to) from the terrorists.

Jim Marrs 2012

reply to post by ThinkingCap


This is why the whole phenomena continues to be so compartmentalized imo. There are so many different aspects to the UFO truths. This particular one is dark dark dark.

Originally posted by tom502
I tend to believe there really is something to the Nazi saucer craft, and the Vril Society channelling Aldebaran. I think it very possible they may have had ET contact. I have heard 2 people, Von Braun being one, claimed they did have contact, and was technologically assisted. It could be a romantic fantasy, but something about the Haunebu and Vril craft just feels real to me.

I've never seen a satisfactory link to Von Braun saying this, only seen it mentioned. Do you have a source of documentation in the media, a book or a transcript known to be real?

As to Channeling, I'm still awaiting even one demonstration that is any proof whatsoever. Seems more an extension of mental illness to me.
______________________________________________________________

On the topic of the German's excursions into experimental aircraft, I'm very interested and fascinated with that topic.

reply to post by Shino

i read what was claimed to be admiral byrds logs when he flew over the north pole. i am and will continue to be unsure as to the validity of the whole story but you just never know. i understand from the logs, his radioman 'howie' was also present when the aircraft was guided into the domain of 'arianni'. it would be interesting if there was any information on this guy and surviving members of his family. i am sure this would create further interest if anything howie left behind could confirm the events he witnessed.
regards f

I'm new here so please no flaming. With my entire background being German I've had the chance to speak with my grandfather before he had passed. I remember him bringing up ET "stuff" but never going into full detail. Seeing as though this is after the war I would've thought that he would go into detail but this is later in life that I think this, I was 11 when he passed so he wouldn't have gone into detail because my fragile young mind probably would'nt have handeled it. BUT, after he passed a few months went by and I remember going to help move his stuff into storage. I clearly remember my grandmother saying not to go into a certain box which looked military. It had a massive lock on it too. I'm 34 now and I've asked about that box but I still can't get a straight answer, my family has always been extrememly secretive. Which pisses me off because I'm tired of being treated like a child at 34 with the secrets.

Moreover, my grandfather was in the SS in the aerospace program which I'm not proud to say but he did defect before the war ended. Either there were ET secrets in this box or maybe just his military appearal. Either way I want to know what happened to that box.

The Germans were much further in technology then we were at the time hence "Operation Paperclip". If it wasn't for Von Braun aznd the other German scientists we would never have left the ground as soon as we did. I still don't believe we ever went to the moon but that's a whole other thread entirely!

~S