The Third Person

Is there an entity or some higher priority in our minds that is actually really doing all our living?

For example, when I go to a social place, it seems as if I lose myself and another person takes over.

Even when home or completely alone, this entity still controls body movements, thoughts, etc...

I now realize that this entity is just an automaton, that is self-preserving and has no awareness of itself.

I realize that at first, perhaps at birth, it had awareness, now it has almost no awareness, its continuing to automatically protect and preserve us that is all it is doing.

If some of you are lost, imagine that all your actions you are doing is done on purpose not by you, but by some higher force that is really doing all the work for you.

How this automaton lost its awareness I have no idea. It could be due to thousands of years of living as automatons.

Which would mean, that we aren't truly free. We may be free from freedom, but not free.

But of course, there is no need to worry and panic, continue living your everyday life or try to truly bring your automaton into awareness.

But then again, I have no idea whats really real. Could the automaton be the true entity that once fully aware, we become complete, or is the automaton a virus that we need to get rid of in order to truly be ourselves?

Decide for yourself.

My wife and I refer to this "third-person" experience as "auto-pilot" mode.

It seems to happen a lot in situations that we've done several times over, such as a certain task at work or ferrying the kids to and from school. It doesn't seem to carry any "automaton" vibes to it at all, more like the brain already knows more or less what to expect and has it's own subroutine to carry out and can do so without a great deal of conscious effort unless the need arises - such as a dog running out in front of the car...the subroutine jumps control back to the brain and screams "WHAT DO I DO????", whereas the brain will respond by calculating the risks of braking, swerving, or possibly even proceeding - then will pass the message to the appropriate appendage to carry out the orders. In that case, just to be on the safe side, the autopilot will be on standby for several minutes before it kicks back in.


That's what I think.

reply to post by NaturalKnowledge

THAT, is very interesting OP. S&F

I call that the "itself", which would like to make you go unconscious of who you REALLY are, so becoming aware of this automaton, of conditioned, reaction/response to stimuli "vehicle", that's the first step, differentiating that. Next we have all the "rackets" we're running (one thing going on out front, but a gambling operation or something else in the back behind the scenes), relative to a mind FILTER (reality tunnel), judgements of "is this good or bad" or defence mechanisms, "am I feeling dominated here, how shall I fight back" etc etc, the run on thoughts in the mind, the voice in the head (what voice?).. but that's still part of the itself, even at this level, the complex recording device of the classical mind, but still not the real you..

But then, there is another mind, a quantum mind (yes, I'm serious), which alone has the freedom to observe thoughts, choose from a thought over another, or better yet, generate a new thought, even in a whole new context, out of which authentic freedom arises. This choosing self, which is of a quantum holographic nature and distributed non-locally, believe it or not, since it is only from this choosing frame that there is such a thing as the FREE self, and we all have qualia, or felt experience to back all this up, and put it to the test, so to speak - this is the REAL YOU. And it's non-local in the sense that it's closing the loop of observation within the entire non-localized (Bell's Theorem) holographic universe, or actualizing reality, as we go, but there again, if we surrender and renounce from all attachment to outcomes, or the fruits of our labors, then we can remain, unmoved, at peace, even happy or humorous, where humor is the state and action, the creativity.

The real you, the Self (with a capital S) is recognized all through the ancient Eastern traditions, and is called the Atman/Brahmin of Hunduism, but also known by many other names.

But the KEY, is to become aware of THAT self, and remain IN IT, while dissolving the "noise" or the static of "itself", allow "itself" to become a nothing unto itself, but in dying, allowing the True Self gratiously, to be reborn in eternity, and into the realm of freedom from which conscious (and creative) choice is made, but this is a freedom of a whole new order, since it's timeless, and spaceless, and filled with infinite creative possibility, and imho, that's just totally freaking AWESOME!

Put another way, we must become fully present to our own INauthenticity, as well as the "itself" voice in the head AND the automaton, to become present to "the one" that is left over, the no-self self, and the beginners mind (instead of the seeking mind). Only then could we ever hope to become authentic, or even charming.

But we can FORGET it, for YEARS, with but a simple distraction one day - you might be wandering around as a self aware self realized being, and then POOF - reaborbed, for 10 years, over the ring of a telephone, or an argument with a friend, whatever.

So becoming ever present to the presence through the eternally unfolding present, would be the ultimate thing, the ultimate PRESENT, in the form of a gift, the gift of eternal freedom and authentic life and love. Wouldn't THAT be something to be a part of some day... but tomorrow never comes.

Oh, what a relief!

Let us therefore, never forget, once we rediscover who and what we really are.

Your view brought all this back to presence for me, while allowing my fingers to talk and walk it out. I thank you!

Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year!

NAM

its called your subconscious mind

-NG

reply to post by NaturalKnowledge

Originally posted by bismos
its called your subconscious mind

-NG

Yes. And it is not an automaton. It is still alive if you give it a chance. Bring your subconsciousness into awereness and perhaps the unification process may take place

-v

Most people are not aware of it.

They are just pulled one way or another, as a reaction/response mechanism, a machine, rarely if ever truly free or real. What would such a being care for his fellow man? He doesn't. Can't. We're just machines, objects bouncing around in a material world. God how I feel for the man who has actually come to believe that nonsense. I did for years. No more.

Spirit alone animates all life, and we are spirit - thou art that, not a machine. That is not who and what we really are. You will never catch me arguing for my own unconsciousness, and if you do, wake me TF up! Thanks.

And I have one other thing to say, while I'm on my little rant here (what the heck), and no this isn't directed at anyone in particular, not at all, just to get everyone thinking a little more deeply..

While we of course need, solely for purposes of generalizations from time to time, to refer to the human being as a type of "it" - to the man who actaully BELIEVES that, that he himself is nothing but an "it", and that his fellow man is an "it", to him, I would just have to say YOU'RE CRAZY!
That is insane. It's not reasonable, logical, nor the authentic experience of the self aware qualia of the human being, and neither is it even in accordance with the laws of modern science, that's NOT the real world, not the real person, most certainly not a self aware person. Love draws the self out in fear and trembling, so I don't want to get too pushy here, and if i came across like that I'm sorry I just think it's about time someone took a stand against an onslaught of ignorance which was ignorant of it's own ignorance, while fighting against the percieved ignorance that some of you thought, had to be stopped at all cost, for the sake of sanity, but you had the wrong sanity in mind, that's what I'm saying, when in truth the whole notion of the self as an "it" is itself insane. And don't pretend you don't understand me (there I go again, sorry, don't mean to take aim at any PERSON, just that angry mindset - which in the final analysis, is still more of "itself" objecting to the very notion of a spirit or a free self, since part of its own delusion, is born in its fear of death! How absurd!

Just let that sink in a while... maybe you too will smile.. (I hope so).

ADiGregorio wants to chime in.

ADiGregorio has simmilar experiences, except ADiGregorio feels the world around him is "controlled" versus the other way around.

Anyway, ADiGregorio is done playing with the third person.

i believe that the OP is speaking of something different ENTIRELY from what any of the previous posters have discussed. and the OP speaks of it in a way which invokes a certain recognition within my own experience, kudos, OP.

in earlier years, i was quite a fan of NewAgeMan's quantum self. and i certainly can appreciate the reality of habitual subroutines, etc. i consider myself to be reasonably self-aware. but most recently i have had the distinct impression that "I" am not living my life.

rather, it is just as the OP describes it. "I" seem to be observing from some far-off point as the drama unfolds before me. Even my thoughts do not seem to be "my own".

it is a distinctly inauthentic and dispersonal sensation and i cannot avoid feeling as though i have lived my ENTIRE life in this state, unwittingly.

although, if "I" am not the one carrying out my thoughts and behaviors, i certainly do not know who is.

Originally posted by tgidkp
i believe that the OP is speaking of something different ENTIRELY from what any of the previous posters have discussed. and the OP speaks of it in a way which invokes a certain recognition within my own experience, kudos, OP.

in earlier years, i was quite a fan of NewAgeMan's quantum self. and i certainly can appreciate the reality of habitual subroutines, etc. i consider myself to be reasonably self-aware. but most recently i have had the distinct impression that "I" am not living my life.

rather, it is just as the OP describes it. "I" seem to be observing from some far-off point as the drama unfolds before me. Even my thoughts do not seem to be "my own".

it is a distinctly inauthentic and dispersonal sensation and i cannot avoid feeling as though i have lived my ENTIRE life in this state, unwittingly.

although, if "I" am not the one carrying out my thoughts and behaviors, i certainly do not know who is.

Exactly. Those who are stuck in society worrying about people or jobs or those who are in society and love it have lost themselves and live as complete automatons. Those of us who aren't so attached still can feel this strange, weird feeling of something else taking over during certain times.

For me, when I'm walking to a social place, I swear I feel like I am not the one thats walking, but its as if something else is walking, and I get pissed off because I comprehend that something, a dying voice in me does not want to go to this place.

I think the worst point to reach is the point where you type this wall of text, and you wonder who it is inside of you typing it. I dont know who it is. Can someone clarify?

reply to post by tgidkp


ADiGregorio knew exactly what the OPost was talking about.

ADiGregorio thinks that the opposite of the OPost is true.

ADiGregorio also thinks that if one feels they are not in control of their actions, therapy should be found.

(Many "bad" types have this detatchment you guys are describing, just recently "Iraq soldier had to think of victims as "not human".)

Of course, as long as you know your thoughts are incorrect and that you are in control of your actions...

I think ADiGregorio is correct.

Also, the idea I forwarded regarding the quantum self is relatively new from a scientific perspective, it hasn't even been around for years.

There's another way of describing this I think. There is a part of us, which, on self examination, is simply at a loss to say who we are, we just don't know, it's a mystery. BUT, the part which knows that we don't know who and what we are, that one who resides in a field of unknowing - that's who we really are, and when we know this, it changes everything, and we can then become authentic, even humorous, charming, loving, and get to actually BE ALIVE.

Everything else is either run on thoughts, or whatever, the rise and fall of largley unconscious processes, and in that way of being, at best all a person does is exist, and it's not real life, not even authentic life, so there's ZERO (or very little) possibility for that person to have any fun in any sort of social situation (unless and until they find themselves by losing themselves), and I really feel for people who walk around in that state of mind. My post then was only intended to be most helpful, and, if at all possible, to liberate someone, somewhere, maybe a reader out there, anyone.

I am losing my concern for what posters at ATS have to say, because I know it's helpful to someone, and my every post is designed with that aim in mind, to be helpful, not to "show off" that's not at all what I'm about.

the pompousness and presumptuousness of both of your responses is troubling to me. the OP has described an ontological perspective which is difficult to appreciate and rather than entertain the idea "as if" it were true, it is denounced as dangerous.

while thinking of all this today, it struck me that the question being asked by the OP is the same as in the movie Vanilla Sky, at the end....

"TECH SUPPORT!!!" "TECH SUPPOOOOOORT!!!"


i generally appreciate your posts, NAM, however i think that you are getting yourself all tangled up inside the notion of the "quantum self". you read recently "the self aware universe" by gomit aswami, no? please go back and review pages 240-241 in which the "double-bind" is discussed. the quantum self exists in a place of UNCONDITIONALITY.

this super-positional state of being is incapable of making any decisions. and it is certainly not concerned about being....

....authentic, even humorous, charming, loving, and get to actually BE ALIVE...

...as you have described. (although it MAY be any of these things)

so, really, the OP's detatched state is a better description of "quantum self" than whatever it is you are trying to sell.



i believe that ultimately the continuous and dis-continuous aspects of the self (universe) must become aligned. it is not one above the other. when this happens, the process of living becomes a bit programmatic yet releases the soul from the bondage of creation.

YOU did not create this frame of reference and YOU are NOT responsible for its outcome.

it is wise for the OP to have discovered the PROGRAM for what it is.

Freedom.

That's all I was trying to sell.

Nothing more, nothing less.


Regards,

Yoda

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6f701c9e7705.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by NaturalKnowledge


You are talking about "the eye" - it is part of a genetic implant, with a "seal" in the form of a man's eye. Often called the "man" the "I man". When we say "I am" really we mean "eye am". This eye is located in the brain, it is a kind of energy conduit. At the moment they are upping the control frequencies, and at this stage the frequency of the eye is able to interlace with the frequency of our normal emotions. My advice to you is to have pure water (flouride seems to conduct it) and try to resist its energy. Everyone "sees" through this eye, and they are basically in their own world, you have to find that place within yourself that acts without the eye interfering, that is, you have to monitor your mind and subvert any compulsion to act from it. The eye frequency is best described as a "white light".