the Dark Face of Darwinism

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Indeed, there are exceptions to the rule.

That´s true. I agree.

I think the relevant issue is as stated above: "Darwinism is often used by creationists as a pejorative term".

Agree, but is this thread here about a debate between Creation/Evolution?? In my opinion the thread here just showing the other side of the "Coin."

Anyway, i respect your opinion, and i understand the point, that you made.

Peace

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Negative and Positive aspect of the Theory of Evolution please...

Bloody hell here we go again..........

In my opinion Darwin was simply using critical and logical thinking and opening his mind to possibilities - rather than sticking unwaveringly to a belief that is against everything that logic and intelligent thinking stands for - Faith.

So anyhoo, I laboured through those absolutely ridiculous videos just to see if it got even mildly interesting and what I saw was a series of misrepresentations, opinions and outright lies backed up by absolutely no concrete evidence whatsoever. I am therefore forced to come to only one conclusion about this entire thread - and in this case I strongly believe a picture speaks a thousand words:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/79ce6f26d818.jpg[/atsimg]

Have a nice day

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
please no altered version of user-entered Wiki fact...

I would prefer Dictionary or Encyclopedia links also, everyone knows by now since it is all over the news just how accurate Wiki is.

still waiting for 'positive and negative' aspects of Darwins Theory, possibly could even be in (One's Own Words) which shows what they have learned about the world we live in.

The good thing about internet access is that you can double check Wikipedia's entries to verify them. If you choose to discuss such matters in web forums rather than to educate yourself beforehand one can only question your motivations.

I am sorry but the Dictionary and Encyclopedia predate the internet so Wiki is not the first word... and it is actually biased for a particular group.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Have you ever looked at the bottom of the Wiki articles? You know, the section named 'References'?

Bet you didn't

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Darwin was not a racist, but I doubt you've actually read anything that Darwin has ever read. This entire thread is the same sort of lunacy you've been putting out.

Now some actual writing from Darwin that shows that this is all idiocy:

I have watched how steadily the general feeling, as shown at elections, has been rising against Slavery. What a proud thing for England if she is the first European nation which utterly abolishes it!
Letter to J. S. Henslow (March 1834); later published in The Life and Letters of Charles Darwin (1887), Ch. 6 "The Voyage —1831-1836"

My wife has just finished reading aloud your 'Life with a Black Regiment,' and you must allow me to thank you heartily for the very great pleasure which it has in many ways given us. I always thought well of the negroes, from the little which I have seen of them; and I have been delighted to have my vague impressions confirmed, and their character and mental powers so ably discussed. When you were here I did not know of the noble position which you had filled. I had formerly read about the black regiments, but failed to connect your name with your admirable undertaking. Although we enjoyed greatly your visit to Down, my wife and myself have over and over again regretted that we did not know about the black regiment, as we should have greatly liked to have heard a little about the South from your own lips.
Letter to Thomas Higginson (27 February 1873)

I mean, these are in the personal writings of the man.

I'm not going to reply to the videos because...well...that's probably something like an hour of viewing something that would lower my IQ further (I mean, you've already let my poor, idiot self know that it's below 85 to begin with), and I don't have that sort of time right now.

Honestly, try presenting an argument against Darwin that hasn't been thoroughly debunked before.

Oh, and Hitler hated Darwin.

But these fellows have already made a great article on how stupid it is to connect Darwin with the holocaust.

methinks I see unnecessary confusion from definitions.
I submit there are two primary beliefs about mankind's origins; from God, or from natural causes (evolution). we aren't worried about space influence / panspermia right here/right now.

history is full of sad accounts of believers in God slaughtering their fellow men. one must admit though, most of this slaughter was not justified Biblically.

more recent history shows how those who do not accept God also slaughter their fellow human beings. Hitler's final solution was evolution taken to its logical end; two genetic groups competing for the same niche. our Aryan dna vs your Jewish dna and may the best subspecies win. (in evolution terms, win means live, lose means die).

and of course communists in many countries killed millions, reasoning that human life was of no particular value when compared to The State.

the big difference, as I see it, is this; when a Christian kills it is almost always a violation of his belief system, making one wonder if this is a 'true Christian', or perhaps a 'Christian in name only'.
athiests (Marxists, darwinists, supremacists) who kill in the name of race can use evolution as a defense and an inspiration ('just weeding out the competition, your honor').

conclusion; the more anti- and non-Christian belief systems spread, the worse the violence.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Evolution is a scientific theory, its "positive" or "negative" effects are irrelevant and are tied to people's reactions NOT on the validity of the theory. Even if everyone on Earth started behaving badly when we learned about Evolution it wouldn't make Evolution false. I don't know of many school kids who come home from biology class hoping to commit genocide because they just learned about Evolution.

Evolution, I think, can have a far more positive effect. At least for me Evolution tells me that all living systems are connected by common ancestry, that all humans are part of the same species that emerged from Africa. If anything Evolution should make us feel more interconnected and more amazed that such bio-diversity could occur naturally, that a natural process could produce intelligence. Evolution has given us a window into our origins far more detailed and fascinating than a God waving a magic wand over some dirt.

Only those who already have darkness in their minds will find darkness in Evolution.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by SlyFox_79
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

How about instead of getting bytchy about one another's own beliefs, try to debate and discuss, this is what ATS is meant for.
Creationism isn't proven.
Evolution isn't proven.
It's wide open for you both to try and prove.

thank you Sly, I did not intend one of the videos to show the word God in the screen shot and I do not think I have any control over that. That particular part of the video goes quickly into how the Theory was accepted by religious groups at the time of its introduction.

Darwin had a dark side of racism for one thing, and alot of people do not realize that.

So Darwin's scientific findings are wrong, because you think he is racist? The bible had a dark side of racism, too, and people don't realize that either. It also had a dark side of sexism, incest, murder, polygamy, adultery, slavery, killing children, stoning people, burning people alive, animal sacrifices, basically forced cannibalism, rape, etc, all fully condoned except maybe the cannibalism. People don't realize a lot of things.

So should the reason I don't believe in the bible be because of all these things? In your logic of questioning Darwin because of the moral implications of his views on race, then I guess I should question the bible for god's display of personal morality, too?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e229c8ed0f22.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
this is not a discussion about religion, it is a discussion about the Theory of Evolution and what it has offered to humanity.

thanks again...

One thing that the theory of evolution has given us is a better insight into genetic issues. We have a basis for learning how genetics function, how they adapt/mutate. It also helps us understand the effects and ways to combat diseases and genetic conditions. In that way it's helped saved people from disease that they could have otherwise died from. He also bravely laid the way for later scientists to bring controversial theories to light. He gave us a better fundamental understanding of the inner workings of our existence, an understanding that religion couldn't provide...if that can't be called a contribution to humanity then I don't know what can.

reply to post by MrXYZ


yes I am a Theist, being I am speaking English and live in the United States you may consider me a believer of the Christian faith...

"Theist" will do though, my family stretches far and wide across many languages and many faiths...

thank you...

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Cosmic Artifact...the most judemental Christian ever

Seriously, all those videos are so full of crap and misinterpretations of what Darwin said, it's hard to decide where to begin. I'm also really starting to worry for you mental health as you literally start 1-2 anti-atheism per day. Did an atheist steal your girlfriend/boyfriend/lover?

man you guys are really hurting

this is still not really the conversation I was looking for, I was looking for what one personally thinks about Darwins Theory...

These videos were made by a Muslim and they are attacking Darwin at the moment, not just Christians !

Theist in general are attacking Darwins Theory from all walks of life... gotta love the internet ! and UK wonders why the Islamic people are freaking out on them over there on their tiny Island.

it is an interesting video, what you guys have to say about Islam ? do Atheist realize if they even uttered a word of what they speaking about on here ats in Arabic or Urdu they would basically have burning oil poured down their throats right ?

Gotta love America's Freedom of Speech, (something UK does not even have)



here is another documentary made by a Muslim, maybe it'll give a better understanding why they hate Atheism so bad... way worse than the majority of Theist !

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


I spent 2 weeks 50km from Makkah during Ramadan. I'm 1m86cm, blonde, and was the only white dude there as far as I could tell. Religion obviously came up during dinners, and given that I'm still alive and quite open about being an atheist, I'd say you don't know what you're talking about

I have no clue where you got the "all Muslims kill non-believers" crap, but my guess it's Beck&Co. Stop getting "information" from clowns like that and start learning about reality.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Hello, CA... long time no argue. Anyway, on this particular one, I'm going to start with an analogy.


Imagine that people believed that no person could possibly be harmed.

If people did believe this, it would of course be pointless trying to harm anyone, so the world would be better for that.

However, for most people, this belief would soon find itself challenged by the world around them. The world, generally speaking, is very good at causing physical harm, and sooner or later it would be obvious that people could be harmed.

In one way, this would be bad, because with this realisation, people would know that they could harm one another, and would do so for personal gain.

In another way, this would be good, because people would learn to avoid things that caused them harm (e.g. sitting on hot coals, chewing electric wires, stepping off cliffs, etc).

Evolution, to my mind, is a lot like that.

Recognition of it has given many people an excuse to harm one another, with the reasoning that they are more "fit", and therefore more deserving of survival.

However, recognition of it also allows us to recognise the roots of some of our less savoury behaviours, and by understanding them, we are better able to overcome them.


So yes, darwinism and natural selection has been used for bad things... but while religion may give you a reason to be good, an understanding of your evolutionary history can show you why you tend to be bad, and how to overcome that tendency.





On a more OP-answering note, people who have used evolution to justify genocide are misinterpreting it. That a different genotype exists simultaneously is proof that it is equally fit, as it has survived an equal period of selective pressure. And evolution does not deem any to be more deserving - that, I am afraid, holds its roots in religion, and it is only through a misinterpretation of evolution that one could reach the conclusion that, for example, people with blonde hair and blue eyes are better than people with brown hair and brown eyes.

And if Darwin was racist... so? The society that he lived in had been racist for the whole of its existence, and humans always had been. I don't like that european history was recorded by people who believed that other people were less than them on any basis, but that doesn't mean that I will disregard history. I will just take it in context.

In my experience, every text - from Frankenstein to the Bible - is greatly improved by being taken in context.



(The only part of evolution really appropriate to justifying genocide is kin selection, and that wasn't, unless I'm mistaken, one of Darwin's. And it only really works when the survival of non-kin is directly and specifically impeding the survival of kin... and even then, evolution doesn't justify it. It just explains it)

تطور يحدث. الحصول على أكثر من ذلك.

reply to post by MrXYZ


I don't believe you.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

it is an interesting video, what you guys have to say about Islam ? you do realize if you even uttered a word of what you guys are speaking on here in Arabic or Urdu you would basically be burned at the stake or even burning oil poured down your throats right ?

What planet do you live on seriously?

Originally posted by MrXYZ
start learning about reality.

reality is Atheism is a small group of English speaking spoiled kids who have not figured life out yet... As we have evidence of this by "the Evolution of Being"

I admit there are some adult who pursue this religious belief of Atheism actively, but that doesn't say much... or does it ?

ok folks, this will be my last response in this section about "religion" yes we are talking about Evolution here at the moment, even this section had Darwin as the theme icon on the main page.

please direct any religious comments to the bts Religion and Theology...

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


I reject your reality and substitute it with my own, factually oriented, reality.

Originally posted by Kryties
What planet do you live on seriously?

I live on planet Earth, and the internet is no longer a breeding ground for terrorism and rapist nor is it no longer a safe place for Satanist to preach their personal rhetoric.

you see Wiki is getting alot of attention as of late, which is kind of good because it is also discrediting Wiki encyclopedia by the majority of the outside world... and I do interact with alot of people, in fact it has been brought to my attention.

I am terribly sorry to inform you folks but your parents are here now, it may have taken us some time to get up with the internet as we are always running behind our children in some things. The internet is no longer just the scourge's playground and you may personally thank Assange for bringing that to everyones attention (if I am right the mail still works in prison) some really need to pay closer attention to the outside world ya know !

see the Light always finds its way into the cracks

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


I don't believe you.