the Dark Face of Darwinism

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
Once again I must tell you that Buddhists are not theists.

again, that is exactly why a true Buddhists opinion would be allotted here...

it is all I was really saying, you may like to wait on my next topic as I will more clearly define the parameters so the topic does not stray too far from course.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


I was actually a Buddhist when I first joined ATS, a Theravada Buddhist to be exact. Theravada Buddhists, who make up a significant portion of the Buddhist community are nontheistic though they do have supernatural beliefs.

Anyway, you still have done absolutely nothing to address my questions in this thread. Can you demonstrate Darwin's racism using his own writings or can you not?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

I was actually a Buddhist when I first joined ATS, a Theravada Buddhist to be exact. Theravada Buddhists, who make up a significant portion of the Buddhist community are nontheistic though they do have supernatural beliefs.

Anyway, you still have done absolutely nothing to address my questions in this thread. Can you demonstrate Darwin's racism using his own writings or can you not?

amazing, you addressed me directly !

this topic is once again not to debate Theism or the spiritual aspects of the Buddhist, it was intended to discuss only the negative aspects of Darwinism and Sociobiology.

I will more clearly state this in my next topic...

thank you at any rate for your personal opinion here.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

I was actually a Buddhist when I first joined ATS, a Theravada Buddhist to be exact. Theravada Buddhists, who make up a significant portion of the Buddhist community are nontheistic though they do have supernatural beliefs.

Anyway, you still have done absolutely nothing to address my questions in this thread. Can you demonstrate Darwin's racism using his own writings or can you not?

amazing, you addressed me directly !

this topic is once again not to debate Theism or the spiritual aspects of the Buddhist, it was intended to discuss only the negative aspects of Darwinism and Sociobiology.

I will more clearly state this in my next topic...

thank you at any rate for your personal opinion here.

Well after reading through this endless thread I see little evidence to brand Darwin as some dark lord of the sith.
He was not the only scientist of his time that was considering the concept of evolution based on observation
so more then likely if he did not present his theory some one else would have and in some alternate reality there is a thread going about how that person is an evil person because they proposed the theory of evolution.

---By the way nice new avatar Cosmic A Hitler Darwin Hybrid though it looks more like Santa Hitler

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

I was actually a Buddhist when I first joined ATS, a Theravada Buddhist to be exact. Theravada Buddhists, who make up a significant portion of the Buddhist community are nontheistic though they do have supernatural beliefs.

Anyway, you still have done absolutely nothing to address my questions in this thread. Can you demonstrate Darwin's racism using his own writings or can you not?

amazing, you addressed me directly !

this topic is once again not to debate Theism or the spiritual aspects of the Buddhist, it was intended to discuss only the negative aspects of Darwinism and Sociobiology.

I will more clearly state this in my next topic...

thank you at any rate for your personal opinion here.

So you're going to create a third thread on the exact same topic because the argument isn't going your way after the first two. Amazing.

I think it is possible, yes that Darwinist inspired Hitler, as well as the eugenics movement, and
www.dianedew.com...

Leading Nazis, and early 1900 influential German biologists, revealed in their writings that Darwin’s theory and publications had a major influence upon Nazi race policies. Hitler believed that the human gene pool could be improved by using selective breeding similar to how farmers breed superior cattle strains. In the formulation of their racial policies, Hitler’s government relied heavily upon Darwinism, especially the elaborations by Spencer and Haeckel. As a result, a central policy of Hitler’s administration was the development and implementation of policies designed to protect the ‘superior race’

… modern eugenics thought arose only in the nineteenth century. The emergence of interest in eugenics during that century had multiple roots. The most important was the theory of evolution, for Francis Galton’s ideas on eugenics—and it was he who created the term “eugenics”—were a direct logical outgrowth of the scientific doctrine elaborated by his cousin, Charles Darwin.’ 13

Ludmerer, K., Eugenics, In: Encyclopedia of Bioethics, Edited by Mark Lappe, The Free Press, New York, p. 457, 1978.

Considering the age in which Darwinism theories were brought int light and the mindset of the people, yes I can see it as having an negative influence on humanity.

During the 20th century, many countries enacted various eugenics policies and programs, including: genetic screening, birth control, promoting differential birth rates, marriage restrictions, segregation (both racial segregation and segregation of the mentally ill from the rest of the population), compulsory sterilization, forced abortions or forced pregnancies and genocide. Most of these policies were later regarded as coercive and/or restrictive, and now few jurisdictions implement policies that are explicitly labeled as eugenic or unequivocally eugenic in substance. However, some private organizations assist people in genetic counseling, and reprogenetics may be considered as a form of non-state-enforced liberal eugenics.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by iterationzero


Of course..that's what he's been doing the entire last week. Every time he loses an argument in one of his threads, he creates a new anti-atheist rant thread. Which is why discussing with him is 100% pointless.

Having said that, I'm really interested in knowing why the OP continuously ignores the fact that no one ever used Darwin as an excuse to commit crimes. He attributes all those wars to Darwin, but totally fails at presenting proof. Given that it is the premise of the thread, it would be kind of expected to post some evidence as backup before starting your pointless rant.

So for the 27th time: WHAT IS YOUR EVIDENCE THAT PEOPLE USE DARWIN AS AN EXCUSE TO ACT BADLY??? (Ignore this once again and I'll give up acknowledging that you're a brainless brainwashed religion zombie who's too dumb too have a rational discussion.)

iml.jou.ufl.edu...

Galton and the Eugenics society., Darwin's cousin.

Galton was the cousin of Charles Darwin and the son of a wealthy, influential family. In 1869 Galton wrote a book called Heredity Genius in which he followed the lives of several accomplished men from, what he considered good families. These good families, Galton claimed, were more likely to produce intelligent and talented offspring.

Galton concluded that it was possible to produce "a highly gifted race of men" by the process of selective breeding, which he later termed "positive" eugenics. Discouraging the reproduction of "undesirables" was subsequently termed "negative" eugenics. (Dolan)

The “negative” eugenics movement was much stronger than the “positive” eugenics and swept across the U.S.

Discouraging the reproduction of "undesirables" was subsequently termed "negative" eugenics, along with that came forced sterilization

Nazi Germany was not the first or only country to sterilize people considered "abnormal." Before Hitler, the United States led the world in forced sterilizations. Between 1907 and 1939, more than 30,000 people in twenty-nine states were sterilized, many of them unknowingly or against their will, while they were incarcerated in prisons or institutions for the mentally ill. Nearly half the operations were carried out in California. Advocates of sterilization policies in both Germany and the United States were influenced by eugenics. This sociobiological theory took Charles Darwin's principle of natural selection and applied it to society. Eugenicists believed the human race could be improved by controlled breeding.

Still, no nation carried sterilization as far as Hitler's Germany. The forced sterilizations began in January 1934, and altogether an estimated 300,000 to 400,000 people were sterilized under the law. A diagnosis of "feeblemindedness" provided the grounds in the majority of cases, followed by schizophrenia and epilepsy. The usual method of sterilization was vasectomy and ligation of ovarian tubes of women. Irradiation (x-rays or radium) was used in a small number of cases. Several thousand people died as a result of the operations, women disproportionately because of the greater risks of tubal ligation.

Yes, it did influence the so called elite, the mid to late eighteen-hundreds to early twentieth century were odd times,
look at us now.

Yes indeed this era was influenced by Darwinism,

Erasmus Darwin

Co founder of the Lunar society, along with,
Josiah Wedgwood and Joseph Priestley,

These people were not as race conscious as we are today in modern society, quite the opposite for being geniuses, but that was then and this is now, that was in the early stages of his scientific theory.

They were know as lunatics, how apropos,
"He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness."

www.strangescience.net...

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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


I've addressed you directly multiple times. Now, would you please answer the questions that I've frequently posted to you?

Question 1: Where is the evidence in Darwin's writings that he was a racist? No, the subtitle of a book isn't enough to draw a conclusion about the material contained within.

Question 2: Where is the evidence of negative social impact with regard to Darwin's theory of evolution?

Question 3: Where is the evidence that Darwin's writings and scientific findings influenced any dictatorship? Please provide direct quotes from these dictators.

Question 4: Why would it be dangerous to teach children actual, fact-based science?

Question 5: Do you or do you not agree that Darwin's theory of evolution is the best way to explain the diversity of life found upon planet Earth?

Thank you in advance for answering these questions, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I admit that when I refer to "darwinism" I am referring to social darwinism and the dark side of eugenic and political implications. I realize though however the inaccurate undertones. Moving on however , One question I always have kept in mind about Darwins theory of natural selection ; is what seems to be certain health epidemics that many contribute to environment and pollution , such as diabetes ;how much of that is due to the fact that because of medicine, those that would have naturally died young from these diseases are now growing old enough to have children of their own and pass these genes on? In my opinion , science is just another approach to some of the fundamental questions of mankind. Where do we come from , who are we and what is our purpose? Darwins contribution was just another chapter in a scientific journey and this "quest " of mankind to answer these questions.
I must admit , I'm really confused by this thread. (probably my blueberry wine)
Dark side of evolution ? I don't see one. I am very interested in what science discovers and they may not have everything right , but it's an exciting journey and a relative journey.

I still believe as stated on (page 1) that Darwin might have give birth to alot these atrocities inadvertently as I have stated.

I will look tomorrow for more interesting facts as I formulate a better discussion on this topic of Darwin, Racism and Sociobiology.

One thing I am puzzled about is this claim that Hitler was an atheist

First off Hitler didn’t do his thing on his own, so one question to consider is, who in Catholic/Lutheran Germany would get any kind of reward from getting rid of the Christ killing jews?

And second – atheists love science and intellect and all that, but the biggest names in science at that time where Jewish - Einstein is the prime example but there where many others – so where’s the pay off for atheist here

And I mean come on Judaism – it’s a religion, atheist by very definition don’t give a flying duck about religion – so what the payoff?

*Adolf Hitler's religious views have been a matter of dispute, in part because of apparently inconsistent statements made by Hitler, and those attributed to him. The relationship between Nazism and religion was complex.
en.wikipedia.org...

I guess by definition (from a Christians point of view) he could be considered Godless, besides nobody wants to have anything to do with him, possibly including any God. specially the one I know of.

there are many websites dealing with this... besides I do not think the topic was about this at all.

Hiler was godless because he was his own God... sound familiar ?

*Führer, also spelled Fuehrer, German Führer, Adolf Hitler. title used by Adolf Hitler to define his role of absolute authority

Self Proclaimed God "absolute authority" www.merriam-webster.com...

there is only 1 absolute authority that I know of...

I guess Racist would better describe his views, penned in Mein Kampf and inspired by his radical racial predecessor, Darwin.

...not in our schools thank you very much

Originally posted by racasan
And second – atheists love science and intellect and all that, but the biggest names in science at that time where Jewish

bzzt! ...wrong answer

I believe Germany was the leader of the technological world back in the day, imagine galloping up to the field of battle on your horse, never seeing a tank before... alot of people thought Germany had technology so advanced that it came from Aliens !

going all the way back to WW1 mind you.

Originally posted by racasan
And I mean come on Judaism – it’s a religion, atheist by very definition don’t give a flying duck about religion – so what the payoff?

whats the payoff being Absolute Authority over people and crusading in the name of Darwinism ?

I believe MIMS may be able to better answer your questions about that !

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Adolf Hitler's religious views have been a matter of dispute, in part because of apparently inconsistent statements made by Hitler, and those attributed to him. The relationship between Nazism and religion was complex.
en.wikipedia.org...

When you're quoting something from an external source, please use the ex tags around it to indicate that those are not your words. Like so:

Adolf Hitler's religious views have been a matter of dispute, in part because of apparently inconsistent statements made by Hitler, and those attributed to him. The relationship between Nazism and religion was complex.
en.wikipedia.org...

I would be easy to interpret the initial part of your post as your words followed by a wiki link for reference. And I'd hate to see your posts deleted for plagiarism. Again.

What's really interesting is the page you're citing as a reference never provides even the remotest suggestion that Hitler was an atheist. Quite the opposite, all of the information regarding Hitler's views toward atheism indicate he was strongly anti-atheist, which is supported by his view that atheism and communism went hand in hand. So while his religious beliefs may be under debate, you still haven't provided any evidence that he was an atheist.

I guess by definition (from a Christians point of view) he could be considered Godless, besides nobody wants to have anything to do with him, possibly including any God. specially the one I know of.

there are many websites dealing with this... besides I do not think the topic was about this at all.

Hiler was godless because he was his own God... sound familiar ?

Führer, also spelled Fuehrer, German Führer, Adolf Hitler. title used by Adolf Hitler to define his role of absolute authority

Self Proclaimed God "absolute authority" www.merriam-webster.com...

there is only 1 absolute authority that I know of...

So believing one's self to be God is atheism? I really hope you stretched for a good fifteen minutes before bending yourself into the contortion required to pull that one off, otherwise I'm pretty sure you sprained something important. So you're conflating megalomania with atheism now? We'll keep this simple - atheists don't believe in God, including themselves, therefore Hitler being a megalomaniac is hardly evidence of him being an atheist.

I guess Racist would better describe his views, penned in Mein Kampf and inspired by his radical racial predecessor, Darwin.

Yes, Hitler was undoubtedly a racist. However, you still haven't provided a single shred of unrefutable evidence that Darwin was. Rather, an inordinate amount of evidence has been provided to you in this thread that the opposite was true. Instead of viewing this evidence objectively, you've already come to your conclusion and are shoehorning everything you can find into your pet hypothesis, regardless of whether it's true or not. You simply repeating that Darwin was a racist in the face of all the evidence to contrary isn't going to magically make it so.