the Dark Face of Darwinism

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

Yes, OK, I get it. You have repeated yourself again, that this thread is about the negative aspects of evolution. Can you respond to what I said now? Why do you keep derailing your own topic and why do you expect other posters not to derail it?

I am not derailing, in fact my post with the pictures above were designed to get the post back on topic, this discussion was not intended to be about Occam's Razor nor the Fabric of the Universe, it is however intended to be if one feels there could be any negative aspects to Darwins Theory, used by those in History and some today...

I believe the alot of posters in this thread do no get the general idea of the topic, some are totally using it only as a means of attack on others, namely Theists.

it is not what the topic is about.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


since some actually do own this Issue of National Geographic, can they post the parts where it says "Theists and Creationist are Ignorant or Insane...

maybe the article is actually saying there are those who misuse and lack the understanding of this 'theory' in general meaning there are those who are misusing it for other than a teaching/learning tool..

hint hint

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Kailassa

 

Thanks for picking up my slack on that point, I did mean to do that but forgot in the holiday rush.

I'm afraid my "little bit extra" kind of grew.
I hope you've had a great Christmas and birthday.

So yeah, if there is an omnipotent deity that created us, how does that make us anything more than clay dolls for this deities amusement? How does it make the deity anything more than the kid at the top of an ant hill?

It's no good asking me why a biblical type god would do things, because I don't believe in an omnipotent ancient playing with ant-farms.

I'll tell you what I believe in case you want to know, but please understand I'm not out to convince you or anyone else.



You're god. Just imagine an existance, outside of time and space and those other dimensions that our minds can't comprehend. There's nothing but you, infinite you, just existing. Not breathing, no belly-button to contemplate, no world to interact with, no other beings.

Being god, you can do whatever you want. So what would you choose to do?

Surely you would want something to interact with. But the more you create to play with, the more strongly you feel something was missing. All this play seems meaningless without someone to share it with.

Seeing this was my story I was free to anthropomorphise god in my own image, so I had him invent the most wonderful place in the world, a library. But, being god, he didn't place books on shelves to read, he made billions of interlocking stories, and became each one. Each story is separate, and god lives as the main character of each. But the separate planes on which these stories live interact in such a way that we are each aware of other planes, and believe them to be part of our own.

"Incarnating", living these "material" lives, god found he had things to learn and people to love, to have fun with and to fight with. It's a wonderful adventure, and god wants to experience everything, all the loves, hates, joys, delights, miseries and even tortures possible. Even us little gods, in our blinded, truncated forms, still have this urge to experience new lives, both the good and the bad. How well would an RPG, (and I don't mean a rocket-propelled grenade,) sell if there was no evil to be fought, no difficulties to be overcome?

Some of us, as humans, live amazingly wonderful lives, some live horrors on an epic scale, and some don't do very much living at all. But although god, being infinite, can still be there as a god or a friend in our experiences as individuals, there is no outside god that has done anything to us. I am god, and I chose my life, including every horror, adventure and joy I've experienced, because this was the story I wanted to live. You are god, and chose your life for the same reason.

This does not mean it is wise to live thoughtlessly and cause pain. Between living out our stories we lose the barriers to our consciousness, and can feel every harm, and every lack of care that we have inflicted on the other aspects of god. It does not even mean it's wise to let bitterness, revenge, hatred, callousness and deceit thrive in our minds, as these thoughts not only encourage us to live thoughtlessly and cause pain, but also hinder us in reuniting with what new-agers call "our higher self". This is the real hell, existing inbetween lives with the contents of your own mind, unable to make the connection back to the rest of god.

So what's the point of hating bad people? None really, as they are giving your story focus, a point of interest, something to fight against. The evil they do can benefit us, making us stronger, giving us understanding, changing our lives, even killing us if it's our time. The only real evil that can happen to us through another person's evil is what we do to ourselves, by fostering bitterness and hatred in our minds. However doing evil is terribly damaging to the perpetrator, as guilt and harm-doing set up a feedback loop, and the perp can find himself forever on the outside, having cut himself off from all that gave his life value.

Our reactions to what happens to us are terribly important, because it's our reactions to outside events which create the inner self which we live with, and which dictates most of our actions. We are never alone, as this inner self is our constant companion, one that may bring peace and joy, or may be something we are endlessly trying to escape from. This inner self is the only thing in this world which we may truly call our own.

What's the point of religion? Perhaps, for some people, it is an important part of their story. But we are not here to worship a creator who is actually our own self, we are not going to go to hell for being gay, religion is just one more institution to create interest in the game we're playing.

The important things to do in this world are those which we would be sad to have missed when we are no longer incarnate; living, loving, sharing, adventuring, fighting for your ideals, learning, eating home-baked chocolate cake . . . This is a precious world, a precious life, and it is up to each of us to work out the best way to not waste it. One day we will look back on our adventures, and, although we will each regret the wrongs we have done and the mistakes we have made, what will will really regret is the opportunities we've missed.


Of course none of the above impinges on physical creation/evolution in the least. - Because, living in this RPG, how a being on another plane produced this is not important. What matters here is learning about this plane because, unreal as it is, we share the same unreality, so it is real to us and its natural laws matter.

Originally posted by HeliArc
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

I'm not making it Evolution vs Creation.
The article that YOU presented says that. Maybe if you had read it you would understand that I'm not saying that nor did I ever say that. I'm simply quoting that NatGeo Article you presented.

I am providing a fair and balanced discussion then... I have read he article yes.

Still fewer Americans, only (12 percent), believed that humans evolved from other life-forms without any involvement of a god.

The most startling thing about these poll numbers is not that so many Americans reject evolution, but that the statistical breakdown hasn't changed much in two decades. Gallup interviewers posed exactly the same choices in 1982, 1993, 1997, and 1999. The creationist conviction—that God alone, and not evolution, produced humans—has never drawn less than 44 percent. In other words, nearly half the American populace prefers to believe that Charles Darwin was wrong where it mattered most.

ngm.nationalgeographic.com...

now where does it disprove my stance or use any language you have spoken of (ignorant ect)

it is right there for you to read and the link is posted.

12% albeit

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Actually, if you check Gallup here, you'll notice the following interesting trend in the past 10 years:

1) 15% fewer people believe man was created in his present form than in 2000.
2) 5% fewer people believe man evolved from other beings under the guidance of god than in 2000.
3) 77% more people believe man evolved without the intervention of a deity than in 2000.

So your claim that things have remained almost unchanged is misleading

I have to admit it is a poll taken of Americans, very typical of National Geographic yes... But I believe if the poll was taken Globally, those who wish to use Evolution as a weapon would have a big surprise... if this was a discussion about Theism Vs Creation then I would have to refer to the pie-graph on Adherents.com.

I have posted it endlessly so there is no need... one can also look a my last comment in the post I made,

Racism and Darwinism

The greatest influence in the sudden development of racism in the 19th century Europe was the replacement of the Christian belief that "God created all people equal" by "Darwinism". By suggesting that man had evolved from more primitive creatures, and that some races had evolved further than others, it provided racism with a scientific mask.

www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com...

and that being just one other "very large" theistic group of the 'non-polled'

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

Actually, if you check Gallup here, you'll notice the following interesting trend in the past 10 years:

does Gallup include Islam ?

I believe we are off-topic even so the poll being attacked and even used is that of National Geographic.

reply to post by MrXYZ


1. humans Evolved with God Guiding (38%)

2. God Created humans in present form (40%)

3. humans Evolved no God present (16%)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5e1e6051c84a.gif[/atsimg]
www.gallup.com...

(Creationist = 78%)

thanks for the link... might I mention this particular poll does not state exactly whom was polled nor where it was conducted, online or Globally or just in Islam ect.

now maybe since we are nearly blue in the face over this battle... has anyone noticed any negative aspects to Darwin's Theory used by others in History and in the present ?

Off-topic babble.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
...those who wish to use Evolution as a weapon...

WTF are you talking about, lol. Using evolution as a weapon. What's next? Wanna fearlessly wield a mighty gravity sword and defend yourself with circuitry theory?

Again, you are pretending as if the theory is somehow turning people into savages, lol. The theory doesn't make us do stuff, nature does...like it or not. Or greed...or mental illness...or tons of other stuff. But no one ever said "I'm gonna kill stuff because of Darwin's theory".

You really seem to hate the guy, lol. Breathe deeply...in...and out...and now slowly count back from 10 while you continue to breathe...repeat after me "it's just a theory, I must not be scared or angry"

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
has anyone noticed any negative aspects to Darwin's Theory used by others in History and in the present ?

why yes, actually I have noticed...

it is happening right here on ATS, just as Hitler and his mentor "Darwin the Racist" said would be done in his not to distant future.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
has anyone noticed any negative aspects to Darwin's Theory used by others in History and in the present ?

why yes, actually I have noticed...

it is happening right here on ATS, just as Hitler and his mentor "Darwin the Racist" said would be done in his not to distant future.

LOL! So now you quote yourself, while having a schizophrenic avatar of 2 completely unrelated people...I'm "slightly" worried for you

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
...those who wish to use Evolution as a weapon...

WTF are you talking about, lol. Using evolution as a weapon.

deny it, the evidence is right here on ATS (the internet) people using Darwin and his Theory as a 'weapon' to attack anyone who does not fall in line with their minority views. Kinda just like "Hitler"

Theist bashing as an example...

got the point now ?

reply to post by MrXYZ


the resemblance is striking wouldn't you say ?

This topic is to discuss the Dark Face of Darwinism, I figured it fitting for the time being...

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

this discussion was not intended to be about Occam's Razor nor the Fabric of the Universe, it is however intended to be if one feels there could be any negative aspects to Darwins Theory

Well, many others have said, repeatedly, that they do not feel that there are negative aspects of Darwin's theory. You dismiss them out of hand and say, "get back on topic!" I am sorry, but when your topic is a hypothetical, and "if," then it is perfectly fine for people to reply that the theory is not bad. You left them a choice to say that it is good or bad, and most of them said that it is good.

It is not a discussion if everyone agrees with you. Didn't you expect opposition? Didn't you expect debate? Or did you just want a gang of dittoheads?

some are totally using it only as a means of attack on others, namely Theists.

No. YOU are the one using this thread as a means of attack on atheists. You used both of these recent threads to explicitly insult atheists. Your critics responded in kind. When you disrespect people who come here to discuss opposing views, what do you expect? That they will lay down and accept that they are "kafirs with chicken bones through their noses" or "english-speaking, caucasian male, spoiled brats" or "odious atheists?" Their criticisms of theism were far less crude and meanspirited than your attacks on atheism.

I am providing a fair and balanced discussion then... I have read he article yes.

This is not a fair and balanced discussion. A fair and balanced discussion is not one that claims, repeatedly, that it is unacceptable to say that Darwin's theories are legitimate. It is not one that says, repeatedly, that the thread is solely meant to criticise Darwin. It is not one in which the host, the OP, the main participant is hostile towards his respondents.

I notice that when you do start responding to other people, you take the thread in the direction of "creationism vs. evolution" and :theism versus atheism." You are still taking the thread off topic.

Show some respect for other posters, respond to their points, stop spouting ad hominem attacks and maybe this thread will be productive. It will not go anywhere if you don't treat it as a discussion instead of a diatribe or rant.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
...those who wish to use Evolution as a weapon...

WTF are you talking about, lol. Using evolution as a weapon.

deny it, the evidence is right here on ATS (the internet) people using Darwin and his Theory as a 'weapon' to attack anyone who does not fall in line with their minority views. Kinda just like "Hitler"

Theist bashing as an example...

got the point now ?

Wow, now you are calling people who disagree with you Hitler?? Dude, you should really take a break and step away form the computer. You seem very angry...especially given that it's Xmas, someone stole your bird?

And telling us we bash theists because we criticize their pseudo-scientific creationism approaches is hardly fair...how else do you expect people to discuss? Just blindly believe stuff...oh...wait...I think I'm on to something

What's even funnier is that you were the one bashing Darwin and atheists by creating 1 anti-atheist/Darwin thread per day, lol. The irony's slapping you in the face

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Not quite as much of a resemblance as this

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/00aded4549ec.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by davespanners
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

Not quite as much of a resemblance as this

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/00aded4549ec.jpg[/atsimg]

OMG, that totally proves Hitler was like Jesus!! At least according it proves this according to Cosmic

reply to post by MrXYZ


I truly hate myself for letting him drag me down to his level

Originally posted by davespanners
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

I truly hate myself for letting him drag me down to his level

I know pictures are serious business, but you're obviously a cat with a santa hat, so you shall be forgiven