7.62x39 vs. .223

Does anyone know where I can find an even longer barrel for my AK-47? Maybe even similar to the dragunov style since the weapons are similar in construction.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Here you go

Time to throw a shoe into the cogs. I choose harmony. Both cartridges have their merits and pitfalls.

I say go with the 6.8spc!! The caliber that falls in the middle. Bingo! The best of both cartridges. Just pop on a new upper and you're good to go with the current format.

Granted, getting the govt. to change anything would be a miracle. Plenty to like about the 6.8 though!!

Cheers!

reply to post by jibeho


The 6.8spc is a great round, but there are issues with availability and support for weapons chambered in this round. Until the market starts supporting the 6.8spc a little more I'm sticking to the tried and true 5.56..

Most comments have based on personal preference. Yes the 7.62 rd is a reliable one, just not out of a typical AK-47. The other platforms have been tested successfully with this load. Its accuracy is unsurpassed. But it comes down to dependability and affordability.
Wouldn't mind getting an AR with 7.62, but the AR is junk comparatively speaking.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I think it's an issue of range. Within 300 yards or so 5.56 would be better for more people. Less recoil and more accuracy. Beyond that range the 7.62x39 would be more effective in the right hands with the right weapon because a lot of those 7.62x39 weapons are lousy shooters unless you get a nice 7.62x39 AR upper or something. But if you're shooting that far you may as well be doing it with a 7.62 NATO and know you'll have the accuracy to hit at that range effectively.

 

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I have an AR-15 (M-4 carbine version) with both a 5.56mm upper and a 7.62x39mm upper. Haven't fired the 7.62x39 upper yet.

I also have a MAK-90 (Chinese version of the AK-47). First thing I noticed was the much heavier recoil from the MAK-90. Enough so that it made me wonder about all the "terrorists" you see on TV firing the rifle on full auto - they must not be hitting much, because it seems like the rifle would be pretty hard to control firing in that mode.

The AR-15 IMO is a much smoother shooting weapon with an ergonometric design that almost makes it seem to "jump into your arms in firing position". I would also question the assumption the 7.62x39 is better at longer range than the 5.56.

Also looked at the .308 (7.62 NATO) version of an AR-style weapon. Trouble with that caliber is that it takes a completely different upper AND lower receiver, you can't just buy a different upper for that caliber and use it with a regular AR-15 lower receiver. This, of course, greatly increases your cost.

Originally posted by Jkd Up
reply to post by bozzchem

 

I as well am unsure as to why they have an AR platform in a 7.62x39mm... However, it is readily available...

Simple.

To make use of relatively cheap and easy to find ammunition on a platform you like and are otherwise familiar with.

Imagine if the SHTF, I'd rather just switch uppers depending on what ammunition was available.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Jkd Up

 

My girlfriend and I both use 5.56 AR weapons. I have a 20" and she has an m4 type carbine.
The point is to use the same ammo. Makes things easier in a hairy situation.

I am glad I am looking at things correctly by not having a ton of differant sized cartridges around. Havin already a good ammount of 7.62x39mm and my loved 7.62x54R, I am unsure how she likes the AK (she was tight lipped) but oved shooting a friends 9mm M4 (the bassis on the build).

Reply to post by centurion1211

Yeah. The price difference between the AR-15 and the AR-10 is ludicrous.

A decent semi 7.62 NATO isnt a cheap thing. I have a couple of HK clones that came to me "broken" and I fixed them pretty easily and now they're a couple of the most accurate and fun shooters I own. But if I hadnt come into them cheap I probably wouldnt have them.

The cheap .308 semi route is generally not worth it. Options under $1K arent very good. Limited mostly to CAI CETME's and Saiga sporters.

An AR-10, PTR, FAL or M1A is going to be over $1K easily if not pushing close to $1500. For "battle rifles" anyway.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I have all of thee above in my safe so
i got it covered
Im building an SBS Saiga 12 gauge with front folder and full auto next hehehe

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Yeah. The price difference between the AR-15 and the AR-10 is ludicrous.

A decent semi 7.62 NATO isnt a cheap thing. I have a couple of HK clones that came to me "broken" and I fixed them pretty easily and now they're a couple of the most accurate and fun shooters I own. But if I hadnt come into them cheap I probably wouldnt have them.

The cheap .308 semi route is generally not worth it. Options under $1K arent very good. Limited mostly to CAI CETME's and Saiga sporters.

An AR-10, PTR, FAL or M1A is going to be over $1K easily if not pushing close to $1500. For "battle rifles" anyway.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Considering the difference between an AR-15 and an AR-10, I don't know that ludicrous is the right word to use regarding their difference in price.

I will grant you that my Armalite AR-10 with a stainless barrel cost nearly double what the AR-15 I built from gun show parts cost. At the same time, they are an apple to orange comparison in their capabilities. An apple to apple would be the FN-FAL my buddy has chambered in .223 that cost almost triple what I built my AR-15 for. It is a far superior weapon to the AR and comes with a price tag that reflects it. His FN .45ACP is also an amazing piece of work compared to my Springfield XD and cost twice as much.

I don't know why you knocked the Saiga rifles since I've shot them and have considered selling my AR-10 to pick up a Saiga and pocket the difference.

Either way, it seems we can all agree to disagree on things but at the end of the day we have to use the tools we have as best as we are able.

I got both my AR15A2 and the M4A3 for $1855.00 altogether. I've done a lot of experimenting with different parts and different add-ons. I use a few different 5.56mm rounds. I use primarily 55-62gr. rounds. I use M855 and M193 for defense purposes. For other purposes, like hunting and plinking, I use 62gr. JHP and 55gr. FMJ respectively.

For 7.62 weapons I prefer the KEL RFB bullpup Carbine in 7.62 NATO.

I got to go crazy on one of these a few weeks ago. I was plenty happy with it after 1200 rounds.

Reply to post by projectvxn

Yeah, is it really that nice?

I was all set to hop on board when I read about it coming out but that MSRP is a little high for a Kel-Tec and I can't really justify the cost. Maybe if I unload one of my HK clones.

How heavy is it?


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7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm/.223 are not directly comparable. One is a first-generation intermediate assault rifle round, and one is a small caliber high velocity. A much better comparison would be 7.62x39mm and 5.45x39mm. In that case, it's about a draw. 7.62mm has more hitting power, but 5.45 is far cheaper (1080 round "spam cans" go for around $150 US). 5.45 also has increased yaw due to the design.

Originally posted by rebeldog
reply to post by Jkd Up

 

environment plays a huge role in choice.

in an indoor, moisture, sand, dirt free atmosphere choose the .223

any environment outdoors where debris moisture or dirt contact the weapon go with 7.62x39

murphy's law HAS kicked in MANY times causing death to the soul with the jammed m-16/ar-15...

anyone who relies on these garbage guns is palying russian roulette.

an sks will never let you down, ice, mud or sand..

BS! I have a Sig516 Patrol in 5.56x45 that can be stored in a muddy sand trap and pick it up and fire it - no problem. You are letting your platform prefernce shine through without discussing the merits of the rounds - as requested by the OP.

www.thefirearmblog.com...

Anyway, in response to the OP's question... My preference is the 5.56/.223 round. Lighter in weight, more accurate over longer distances, faster shot recovery and target reacquisition and performs as required for the type of platform firing it. If I required a larger 30-cal round I would shoulder a .308.

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Some like to argue stating that the Ak-47 7.62x39 isnt accurate after 100 yards. Where they come up with this nonsense is beyond me? I have accurately shot up to 400 yards, 5 rounds with 2 inch spread? So I think this is more of a debate about personal preference.
Theres alot of people I know that are AR fans, and can't stand AK's, knowing full well that the AK is a more reliable, and structurally sound weapon. Trying throwing your AR into a mud pit and firing thereafter.

Not gonna happen, where as the AK can take a beating and keep on firing!

I see a man at a gun show years ago take a AK-47 and pop the top cover off. He took a hand full of sand and dumped into the receiver. He then shock the weapon around to get the sand every where. He then took the weapon and turned it upside down and dumped out the sand. The then racked the bolt and let it rip. It dumped the 30 shot mag with a single jam.You could see sparks flying as the metal ground up the sand. Now lets see you treat a AR15/M16 that way and see if it still fires.

AK-47= WW2 US Army Jeep. Go anywhere and do anything
AR15/M16=Town Car. Get it off the black top and you are not going anywhere.

Now which one would you want in the woods?

If you still want 5.56X45mm NATO than get a AK-74 (5.45x39mm) re-chambered for NATO (not too hard to find)or get a Daewoo


If a AK-47 had sex with a M-16 you would get the Daewoo K2

I was in Iraq from 03-04 and 05-06. I saw plenty of dudes get hit with our 5.56 rounds and keep coming. I saw lots of our guys go down when hit with their 7.62 rounds. I believe NATO chose the 5.56 mostly because its slightly less lethal. I'm not a violent person anymore. But my money will always be on the 7.62. Stopping power is EVERYTHING when it really counts.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I haven't bought one, but they aren't really that pricey. It's well balanced, has a light trigger pull, the only drawback is the weight..It's about 12 lbs empty.

Arms were very sore at the end of that day.

reply to post by kozmo


bs.. where???? the 5.56 is not gonna drop someone unless it a head shot.. 39 will drop you with one shot..

now, are you actually gonna suggest that the ar/m16 rifles dont have jamming problems?? really?

i spent 6 years in usmc

reply to post by ZeroReady


no way dude, us vets are wrong..

just ask KOZMO.. he is the weapons guru bs that the 5.56 jams...!!!!!!!

what a tool for saying BS..


the real round for dropping people is the 9.3x62.. it smokes the 30-06 by 25% more hydrostatic shock..
just think if we had a 9.3 version of the m4..