The Strangest Question

Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Originally posted by badkitty

Originally posted by Raphael_UO

I wouldn't suppose you would feel like sounding that out phonetically?

for example: did "a bleeder" sound like Ah Bah Lee Door?

I will simply say, "AH Bah Lee Door" sounds quite a bit like "abah liy duwr" which should roughly translate as "consent god dwell"

Edit: a healer if it sounds like "Da Hee Ore" sounds like "day uwr" which would be "Abundance Fire"

The "or" between if "a healer" sounds like "Da Hee Ore" would also be uwr.
uwr uwr would be a REALLY big fire, possibly symbolic of "damnation"



[edit on 6-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

[edit on 6-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Oooh - just saw your edit. Totally freaky! In english it would seem that "a healer" is a positive and "a bleeder" is a negative. But with your translations it seems almost the opposite - "a healer" could mean
basically "inferno" and "a bleeder" could mean "consent to gods will". Very confusing as you stated. So, if there is something to this (which makes for great fun) why would God be so cryptic?

Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Edit: hmmm... Possibly "Doob You" (duwb yuw) which would be "Cause sorrow god"

Mind you some of these "words" are parts of words that are in the Torah and are not ever used by themselves.

If it could sound like "Doob you ish too abee da hee ore ore ah bah lee door" this would translate to english to read "cause sorrow god. man sweep away (my) father. abundance fire fire. consent God dwell.

I need to stop editting and just post.


[edit on 6-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

[edit on 6-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

[edit on 6-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Yes - I've missed those edits. But this is very interesting. How long have you been studying Hebrew?

I wonder if any of this has helped to solve this mystery at all? I hope so. While I find these possible translations very intriguing - I'm still leaning toward my previous post....

healer = peacemaker

bleeder = warrior

These seem to be things that might trouble a young man. Especially in these very turmultuous times we live in.

Originally posted by badkitty
Yes - I've missed those edits. But this is very interesting. How long have you been studying Hebrew?

I do not technically study Hebrew. When a verse in the Bible (OT in this case) does not make sense to my understanding, I often look up the Hebrew word for the verse. I have been doing this for the last 12 years or so. When believe or not, I said my first prayer in over 10 years while dreaming.

Hebrew is a very symbolic language. It basically paints a picture. Like the "Fire Fire" in that possible translation. Fire Fire would be a REALLY big fire.

Raphael - totally cool! You are a scholar.

Hawk - have we helped at all? What are you thinking about all this at this point?

Originally posted by badkitty
Raphael - totally cool! You are a scholar.

I am but a man searching for the truth.

I find it very interesting that something that sounds so close to what he said has a decent structure. (you do this)(when you do that)(you'll get that)(if you dont do this).

Originally posted by badkitty
Raphael - totally cool! You are a scholar.

Hawk - have we helped at all? What are you thinking about all this at this point?

Hey all,

I just got to reading your replies and needless to say I am stunned. I never thought that the pronunciation might be in a different language than the one I heard it in.

It's interesting that it was in an English accent because at that age I didn't ever really recall hearing English accents (myself living in California and all) ... so it was very strange to hear it.

I'm 20 years old now, so this was some time ago... but it still bothers me as to its meaning ... it was vivid and the question seemed to have unnerved me then as it does now.

I feel that it's a choice I had made or must make in the future, and I do not know what it means.

I don't think it has a religious connotation but I really don't know if my subconscious was just toying with me.

I don't quite understand exactly what the Hebrew translations are getting at ... perhaps you can clarify for me?

Thanks for all of your help!

Originally posted by Hawk
I don't think it has a religious connotation but I really don't know if my subconscious was just toying with me.

I don't quite understand exactly what the Hebrew translations are getting at ... perhaps you can clarify for me?

Thanks for all of your help!

Edit: my computer decided to send this before I was done, so I am still finishing. Give me a moment or two

Edit: ok, they are complete thoughts now.

If you were asking why I would think it was Hebrew:

When I was approx 12, I had simliar dreams, except the words were nothing I understood to be words. After a long story that ended in an "spiritual discovery", I began studying the Bibile. When something didn't make sense in the translation I was reading, I would read the hebrew/greek from which it was translated. When I started doing this, I also tried to learn how to say the words. Some of the words seemed familiar, even though I couldn't remember ever hearing them. It wasn't until I began trying to make sense of the long story that ended in "spiritual discovery" that I made the connection. By then, I was afraid any memory was clouded by my studies. So, I simply filed it away as "something to look into in the future".

The description of your dream (with the exception of the words) was familiar to me. I said the words you heard out loud, and they seemed familiar. It may have been the way I pronounce things, but I focused in on "a bleeder" which I pronounced as "Ah Bah Lee Door". I looked for Hebrew words that sounded the same. "Lee" is the only word there that wasn't by itself a word in the hebrew Bible. It was used as part of names, and basically means "God". This gave me (consent God dwell).


Now if you were asking to help translate the verse, I fear my Hebrew is limitted. See, I am familiar with basic words and structure, but I am uncertain of many aspects beyond that. But, I will share what I do know.

Hebrew is a very visual language. The words basically "paint a picture" of what they are describing. A group of words form an idea, the progression of ideas put them into a logical order.

Assuming I didn't do the language an disservice when I put the string of words together, we have the following rough translation:

"cause sorrow god man sweep away (my) father abundance fire fire consent God dwell."

Now, honestly I didn't examine all of this all that closely, and without knowing what you heard, I assumed certain things.

to give you an idea:
Do could have been Doob, Dood, dook, doots

dook was aramaric, so I dropped it.
Doob means "to pine away, to cause sorrow, pass away"
Dood means "pot, jar, basket, kettle"
Doots means "to leap, dance, spring"

So, there is clearly some bias in deciding what was said, as I was attempting to make something that made sense. My intention was to eliminate words that didn't make sense together. The fact that what I made does sound very simliar to what you said, and still makes sense amazes me.

Now how to make sense of the words.

First step is to decide on word groupings that relay an idea.

I divided those up as: (cause sorrow god) (man sweep away (my) father) (abundance fire fire) (consent God dwell).

Next step is to find the logical progression in those ideas. For this I used:
(Cause this) (when you do that) (Get that)(if you don't do this)
it could also be (cause this) (when you do that) (and you'll get this); (do this instead)

Both the word groupings and the progression are consistant with the language of the bible. Which is quite amazing.

If you wish to explore this aspect, I am more than happy to explain in greater depth how I decided which words to use.

[edit on 7-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

This is very interesting.

I have been trying to match the words your heard with hebrew words since I mentioned it last night. I simply wasn't satisified with certain aspects (like the missing L in healer)

I thought I would update you on what my "current translation" sounds like.

Does this sound closer to what you heard?
(Doosh you eesh too ah bee) (o gheel ore ore ah ba lee door)
(Trample God man sweepaway my father) (rather rejoice fire fire father god dwell)

Father or consent is a matter of pronouncing "ah ba" or "ah bah" but I dont think it matters which is which as far as "the meaning"


[edit on 7-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

[edit on 7-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Well from what I gather you put in "eesh", which I'm assuming was "wish".

I heard "want".

Anyway, it sounds interesting but when I sound them out they really sound like nothing I've ever heard before ... probably because I don't know how to pronounce them.

Interesting nonetheless, but I'm opting to think that it wasn't some sort of Hebrew.

My first thought is: Are u going to be a healer = Are you going to have the ability to heal 'miraculously' ... and Are you going to be a bleeder = Are u going to be a stigmatist? (miraculously suffer the wounds of Christ)...

Given your Catholic upbringing and being that particular age... hmmmm

Originally posted by Hawk
Well from what I gather you put in "eesh", which I'm assuming was "wish".

I heard "want".

Anyway, it sounds interesting but when I sound them out they really sound like nothing I've ever heard before

... probably because I don't know how to pronounce them.

Interesting nonetheless, but I'm opting to think that it wasn't some sort of Hebrew.

LOL
I read what you wrote, and wrote down the wrong word. That was one of the words I was struggling with too.

I'll take another look at with want and not wish. Simply because I am curious. I'll let you know if anything turns up, even if you doubt it's Hebrew.

Edit: I'm too tired to study right now, 'an, sounds like "dawn" without the d. with the T word following it would sound like "awn too". "an" would mean "until" and make it a question. I'm too tired to look back up that list of words to find out how that fits in.

I may get back to this later.

[edit on 7-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

What you heard is what you heard. Your mind cannot receive messages in languages you do not know... and since this question was sent to you, why would the sender try to confuse the matter by speaking in tounges? Words heard through the mind are always understood, whereas the words heard through the ear are not...

Now, personally, I think there is way too much thought involved... questions of being are simple and straight forward. The spirit is not in business to confuse.

To alter the meanings a little bit, between healer and bleeder, look at these examples... Martin Luther King and Malcom X (or for the comic fans, Professor X and Magneto)... both want the same thing, but go about things differently. You can still be 'good' if you are a bleeder... likewise, I am sure, 'evil' has its healers as well.

But the choice is still there. To help others by caring and assistance, or help others by fighting?

I agree with an earlier statement... 'especially in these troubled times'... choices are being made, and lines are being drawn. If people haven't been questioned yet, they soon will be.

My interpretation:

Healer = kind, loving person, who HEALS others wounds (ie giving comfort, being kind, offering help)

Bleeder = cruel, manipulating, harmful person (ie making fun of others, hurting people when they're down, etc)

hmm...thats what most pops into my mind, sounds familiar though.

-wD

Originally posted by soothsayer

To alter the meanings a little bit, between healer and bleeder, look at these examples... Martin Luther King and Malcom X (or for the comic fans, Professor X and Magneto)... both want the same thing, but go about things differently. You can still be 'good' if you are a bleeder... likewise, I am sure, 'evil' has its healers as well.

But the choice is still there. To help others by caring and assistance, or help others by fighting?

I agree totally - that is what I was getting at with my "peacemaker" vs. "warrior" scenario. Both are necessary in any society and both have their positives and negatives. But I think the gist of the whole thing is decisions must be made. I think one thing we are greatly lacking in this modern society is a "rite of passage". And I think somewhere between 12 and 16 are natural ages for this to occurr. These are the times in our lives that we begin seeking maturity, acceptance and our place in the world. I think it is natural for all of us (male or female) to seek our "graduation" to adulthood and our purpose in life and our societies. And regardless our legal status (as adult or minor) our natural and physiological state often propelles us to seek this transition long before the age of emancipation (18). If we had in our society a "rite of passage" that would greatly ease so much of the indecision and confusion so many young people seem to go through. So I think this was natures way of saying "you are coming of age - it is time for you to choose a course for your life". And you being a reasonable and very aware young man realize there are equal but different strenghts to build upon and forge your way with.

So Hawk - consider your current situation and your attitudes and views. Have you become a healer or a bleeder (peacemaker/diplomat or warrior/revolutionary).

Originally posted by badkitty
And I think somewhere between 12 and 16 are natural ages for this to occurr... to seek our "graduation" to adulthood and our purpose in life and our societies... a "rite of passage" that would greatly ease so much of the indecision and confusion so many young people seem to go through.

And you being a reasonable and very aware young man realize there are equal but different strenghts to build upon and forge your way with.

Sorry for breaking up your post, but, it made me remember... look at all the 'primative' societies we have, in which they do have their children, at those ages, go out on vision quests, to find themselves, their names, and their place, in the world. Silly silly primatives...

And...

"reasonable and very aware young man"? Why, thank you!

why not go back in time and try to figure out what you were being taught in Religon in Catholic school 10 to 1 odds whatever you were studying at the time left an imprint in your head and thats why you dreamed about it because your own self was questioning what that might have meant to you and all of your surroundings.

Good Luck

the healer and bleeder situation could be more deep than you think and be more of a societial issue.


I consider the book by Daniel Quin : "Ishmael"

Bleeders would be considered Takers by him, those that take from society and do not consider the results. They are responsible for the destruction of the rainforest, and destruction of society. They do not live in harmony with the Earth. These are more materialists, living in an industrialistic state

Healers could be considered those called Leavers by him. They leave the Earth in as good a shape as it was when they accepted its use, and therefore could be considered living in harmony with the earth. They are more Farmers, etc, living by the means of the land, Agriculture


well this is more a metaphorical example of what it could mean, and by far is a basic explaination, and can be further explained if you read the book, which is a great piece of literature.

Originally posted by soothsayer

Originally posted by badkitty
And I think somewhere between 12 and 16 are natural ages for this to occurr... to seek our "graduation" to adulthood and our purpose in life and our societies... a "rite of passage" that would greatly ease so much of the indecision and confusion so many young people seem to go through.

And you being a reasonable and very aware young man realize there are equal but different strenghts to build upon and forge your way with.

Sorry for breaking up your post, but, it made me remember... look at all the 'primative' societies we have, in which they do have their children, at those ages, go out on vision quests, to find themselves, their names, and their place, in the world. Silly silly primatives...

And...

"reasonable and very aware young man"? Why, thank you!

Silly, silly soothsayer....rites of passage are not necessarily savage and primative acts of savagry and mutilation. Consider the Jewish bar mitzvarh or the dbutant ball - these are very civilized rites of passage (not primative) but none the less meaningful. It is a point in a young mans or womans life when they are offically indoctrinated into adultuhood. No more wandering somewhere between childhood and responsibility but a clear point when we pass from one to the other. The rite or ritual is not the point but rather the idea that it is now time for you to think for yourself and take responsibility. Not primitive ideas - very progressive and much needed ideas in todays society of "blame my parents and I can do whatever I want" kids.

I was just being sarcastic. Alot can be learned from "primative" societies. Having gone on my vision/naming quest a fe years ago, I can vouch for it.

Originally posted by soothsayer
I was just being sarcastic. Alot can be learned from "primative" societies. Having gone on my vision/naming quest a fe years ago, I can vouch for it.

Oops - I didn't catch the sarcams. Thanks for carlifying. So tell us more of your vision quest (good movie by the way). Maybe you can start your own thread?