The High-jacked Forum

Originally posted by T3hEn1337ened
I hope I don't need to explain what's creepy about this one. Granted, the CTCHIP program is entirely voluntary from what I can tell, but if this were a program that parents were being forced to register their children with, people would have a fit.

I don't want to imply that Freemasons are secretly evil, or infiltrated by the Illuminati, or devil worshipers, or anything else, I'm just saying that you guys can come off as a little cult-ish and creepy sometimes.

CHIP'ing your kids is about as voluntary as buying them Christmas presents.

They set up booths at the fair where kids wait in line for hours to be processed. It's not at all unfeasible that some of those kids are plants to draw other kids.

I had made and treat about mapping the New World Order, including the Masons. I have link them to Amen-Ra.

Freemasons -Amen Ra

This was the treat i created, I think if you watch everything I put together. You can see the circle come round.
And thats why I think treats like this, and mine below get put in the background.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

The devil speaks with many tongs, endless discussions.

Look here a video of the 99degree masons.Grand Hierophant


And this treat below, is also very funny. all those comments.

www.abovetopsecret.com... (639669) treat number

Originally posted by emsed1

Are you serious?

Up until I joined ATS, I thought 9/11 truthers were idiots. I had never heard of WTC 7 before I came here and the videos alone show that something's not right.

OK there's something I agree with. I fought long and hard with the 'truthers' until I read about WTC 7. Something does not add up.

:: Quick off-topic alert ::

To add to this off-topic topic - I'm with you on this one.

Not a truther, but two things absolutely do not add up re: 9/11:

1 - WTC 7 (enough said)

2 - Pentagon "plane" hit. My simple question on this one is, if there is nothing to hide - why are they hiding it? All pics/video etc that we know of were confiscated by the FBI and never released unless you count the the very few only done so via an FOIA demand. Why should an FOIA request even be necessary? Also, to say that the Pentagon themselves have no camera's and/or pics taken from these cameras is just plain ludicrous.

I am not an idiot and refuse to be treated as one.

:: End off-topic rant ::

reply to post by Schrödinger

But it is not always just a simple truth, you refuse to accept the fact, that truth is subjective! And that there could be things going on in the secret societies that you aren't aware off.

There are things going on in non-secret societies like our elected government that we aren't aware of. As more and more of our nation's foreign policy decisions are classified as "National Security" even Federal Judges are having a difficult time now getting the real facts from the government needed to preside in trials where people are suing the government.

Secret Committees of Congress, the Federal Reserve and a number of things that go on at Langley and Quantico are all off limits.

Want to talk about the most dangerous secret society, tha would be called the Press, who amongst other things at various points conspired to hide FDR's polio, JFK's affairs, and Hollywood's drug problems and rampant homosexuality.

I find it a bit odd when our most important public institutions are becoming more and more secretive and destructive, that anyone is focused on the Masons as the end all be all of secrets.

You valse in and think you are the ultimate arbiters and keepers of "the real truth" and therefore insist that you have the last word in every debate about the structure of the secret societies.

I don't think (as far as I know of) that any of the Masons are making this claim. They seem to (I don't know for sure, nor do I much care) have a philosophy that is semi religious in nature that centers on math and geometry.

So does your computer that speaks in a bianary language of 1's and 0's. Math appears in other places though like the Hebrew texts and math is an important part of the logistics that make the world go round.

The big problem with 'secrets' of all kinds is people have an inherent fear of the unknown that sometimes makes them toss out common sense. Alex Jones is a perfect example as he takes fear mongering to sensationalized heights for the sake of ratings.

I started investigating conspiracies when I was 6 years old, I was literally raised on conspiracies by a conspiracy minded person.

The first 26 years of my life there was no internet, so investigating conspiracies was not investigating URL's as some people seem to imagine it is. It was a lot of reading, and a lot of wearing out shoe leather, and a lot of very quality discussions with people you met wearing out shoe leather.

When you have been to the Bohemian Grove and you end up listening to someone like Alex Jone's take on it, and then the even wilder ramblings of people trying to decipher pictures taken there, you realize "conspiracy theorist" all too often ends up being "person devoid of any logic and common sense" as they read the most sinister things into often what are the most harmless and innocouous.

Example: Picture of puppy dog at Bohemian Grove

Conspiracy Theorist One: Oh my God they are getting ready to have sex with that 6 pound puppy!
Conspiracy Theorist Two: No they are going to slice it open and make a hat out of it!
Conspiracy Theorist Three: No they are going to kill it and eat it!
Conspiracy Theorist Four: No they are going to sacrificie it to Baal!
ATS Mason: Actually if you look at the picture real closely the third guy from the left has a can of puppy chow and the fourth guy from the right has a can opener, and the second guy from the right has a dog food bowl, I am pretty sure they are going to just feed it.

Now personally I like the Mason's answer the best, because it's the logical answer based on the real evidence.

Being a great conspiracy theorist is like being a great detective, not being the greatest story teller with the wildest imagination.

Like great detectives conspiracy theorists theorize looking at motive and opportunity, but they also INVESTIGATE those theories real time eliminating suspects and theories as they go along looking for the truth.

To many people who consider themselves conspiracy theorists are in fact just into info-tainment and wild speculation and it gives those of us who are doing our due dilligence bad names.

Just look at this thread, 75% of the masons replying in this thread are replying to each other, on a topic that have nothing to do with the OP, this thread is officially hi-jacked by off topic ramblings made by masons.

This is not true at all 50% of the Off Topic Posts in this thread are the Masons responding to me, and I am not a Mason. In fact I can point you to a number of threads (and they likely can too) where I have so beat up on them for "select" things that sales of Proto Voodoo dolls spiked heavily on the New York Stock Exchange.

But I also happen to not just like but respect a number of Masons on the site. One of the site's Masons authored a highly respected thread this summer where he took his family to Pensacola Beach during the height of the Gulf Oil Spill and personally filmed the things the Media wasn't showing us, and publicly did an about face on his previous stance that the spill was being 'contained'. Not only was he big enough to admitt he had been wrong, he took the effort at his own time and expense to go out and do a real world, real time, investigation that proved his earlier statements regarding the spill wrong and to publish the truth of his findings here on ATS.

That doesn't sound like a guy to me who is going out of his way to keep important secrets from the public, sounds like someone going out of his way to share important secrets with the public.

Further the Masons of ATS can make great sources of information, if you are researching ancient societies and religions a lot of them not only know history extremely well but the histories of pagan religions extemely well.

As long as you aren't asking them about their grips and signs they will for the most part happily share anything that they know with you, and if you don't trust them, take what they tell you and head for a good library and double check it, and dollars to donuts the information they will give you will pan out.

Think they hate all non-Masons? Guess again, from time to time when I do a big conspiracy thread (and I write some big conspiracy threads here on ATS) as I scan down my profile list of people who selected me as a friend over a dozen of them are Masons.

So I invite them like everyone else on my list of people who selected me as a friend to check out my latest conspiracy thread and I usually get a U2U like this example back from them:

Dear Proto;

Thanks for the invitation to check out your new thread, I was really honored to recieve it, thanks for thinking of me, it was a great topic and a great read by the way.

Your friend,

ATS Mason

...They don't show up and visit the thread, but they will often star and flag it, and either leave a public complimentary comment on the thread, or will write privately and say "Do you really think this is that?".

As far as forum gangs go on ATS and there are a few very viral ones, the Masons are about as benign as a group of like minded people can be.

The truth is obvious, and whilst nothing conclusive have been proven, for all we know you aren't even masons!

When it comes to the anonymity of the Internet we can't even be sure who we are talking to is anything, guys can be girls, people can be machines...etc.etc.

Being accusatory simply puts people on the defensive, so when you come on strong with a lot of accusations you are going to get a lot of defensive postures from the people you are leveling the accusations at.

You can kill more flies with honey than vinegar and that's a fact.

It is a fact that the majority of members calling themselves masons on these boards, take part in an organized effort to derail any thread critical of the secret society structure aswell as riduculing any person that comes forward with a theory on the secret societies.

This is simply not true, I write conspiracies about 'secret societies' all the time, and when Masonry comes up in one of them, there is really only one Mason on these boards that will attack like a pit bull on every occassion, believe it or not I encounter the most flak from non-Masons who have done so much 'specific' research on the Masons that anything that doesn't fit in with their theories on Masonry sets them in a tizzy and has them making attack after attack because they want the Masons to be about what they believe they are about.

Now in all fairness I don't do Masonic Conspiracy Threads, I usually just give the Masons a bit part in some of my conspiracy threads, as I theorize and speculate where they might have come into play in the conspiracy, the truth is I think some of them find it actually flattering, or so off the mark that it's not worth arguing since the thread really only deals with the Masonic element in a small fractional way.

However as a rock drummer, if someone did a thread that says "Rock Drummers, never serious, throw TV's out of Hotel Windows, and sometimes take home drag queens"...trust me I am going to be one of the first to show up and state clearly for the record, I ended up at his/her house they didn't end up at mine!

Make a thread about Zionists and most of them will show up.

Make a thread about Christians and most of them will show up.

Make a thread about Law Enforcment and most of them will show up.

Make a thread about Masons and yeah, most of them will show up.

Masonry in fact is in most areas in a sorry state. The Internet, the generation X and Y people are not joining, there membership is on the decline and the median age is probably 60. The economy has hit them hard, dues aren't rolling in and between attrition of older members expiring of natural causes, and members who can't pay their dues during these hard economic times lodges are shuttering their doors for good and closing up shop and consolidating with one another.

Some juristidictions are having some luck attracting new members while others aren't having hardly any luck at all.

Though truth be told it remains to be seen even in those lodges who have attracted some younger members how many of them stick with it, in this age of electronic social media and economic hard times, as they embark on a lifelong committment to gradient scale learning.

Most of their own efforts here on the boards when they are not responding to attack threads are thinly veiled recruitment drives.

In other words threads where they are hoping that rare individual here or there will after chatting with the Masons here end up going into a local lodge and meeting and greeting the people there and investigate becoming a member.

Most of the ATS Members here who are Masons have been Masons all their adult life, it's given them something in the way of an identity and friends and a purpose in life that they cherish.

As a Past President of the Newport Beach 20/30 club a charity organization of men in their 20's and 30's I can tell you that not only is recruitment into charitble organizations hard, but between the gambling, strippers, prostitutes and ball games, the things that under my degenerate leadership we would use to raise money for charity from normal people who like those things, we did some very nice things for the needy.

The Masons do too, and if the Masons are anything like the 20/30 club was, most of their time is split between planning their next fund drive, to pay for their next big charitble outlay and to find some new members to help plan it all out and raise the funds.

Now having said all that, do Masons use their organization as a social network, to steer business to one another, and do one another favors when and if at all possible. They would be really stupid if they didn't.

Whether it's a round table, a chamber of commerce, a political or church committee, charity organization, or fraternal orgnization that's what they all do. They help each other out, so when it comes time to buy the local little league team it's new uniforms, send a cancer patient on a make a wish once in a very short lifetime last trip, help a battered woman shelter, or a toys for tots drive, they are all there.

Want to know the most charitible group of people I have ever encountered, dyed in the wool, drug dealing, head breaking, girl swapping biker trash. Those guys will pull so deep in their wallets when they are doing a 'charity run' it will bring tears to your eyes.

If you saw them hanging out on a corner you would walk to the other side of the street, but the truth is they would make sure that your child who needed a cancer operation you couldn't afford could get it, no questions asked by pulling every last dollar out of their wallet if need be to do it.

Judge people case by case as individuals.

I am proud to call some of the Masons on these boards my friend. You know why, because they have been, and they are. Treat them with respect, and they will definately do the same.

They will in fact answer your questions, if you put it to them politiely and respectfully. They might not be the answers that Alex Jones told you, and you want to hear, but they are likely to be honset reflections of what the person you are asking things, and feels and knows about Masonry.

Remember in any heirachy only the people at the very top know everything, and if you are only guessing at what that is they know, and the people you are asking aren't at the very top and don't know either...well...even Alex Jones and David Icke might be able to figure that all out.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Well yeah, I guess that's my point here. You can choose not to do it, but then you're a "bad parent" because you "don't care" about the safety of your kids. Programs like this use fear to get people to sign up for them, and once you're part of the program they can pretty much follow you wherever you go. Personally, the last thing I'd ever want is for me or my children (should I choose to have children one day) to be fingerprinted and examined like criminals by a secret society.

Fear of the unknown is a very powerful motivator towards ignorant conclusions. Unfortunately, the only real way to find out what Freemasons are "up to" is to become one, but even then you might spend your life just working towards becoming a 33° mason, only to realize that there's nothing so sinister about the masons to begin with.

While Freemasons appear good on the surface, their secrecy is reflective of cults such as Scientology. Sworn secrecy and a hierarchy of knowledge is ripe for corruption. Heck, just look at the U.S. government.

Rather than ask whether Freemasons are good or evil, it seems important to ask why they're secretive. Why are their secrets so important? Good deeds don't require such secrecy, and sure it's fun to be part of a secret society, but I get the sense that the masons take themselves too seriously to just do it for "fun".

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
I heard about this on the William Cooper show.

The Freemasons first ask you to show proof. When you show proof they flat-out contradict you anyway without showing any proof for their own arguments. Sometimes they will also say, "Oh, well, you've never been inside a lodge and taken the oath." For some reason, having taken the oath means that the person is trustworthy, although the oath calls for one not to reveal secrets.

When that doesn't work, they will attack your character, saying that you're a nutcase, or that you're unfairly attacking innocent people (nevermind that they'll probably attack you first), or that you're a deluded religious zealot on a holy rollin' rampage.

William Cooper said that he's been physically attacked. I have reason to believe that my identity has been outed, but I haven't been physically attacked (although I don't make the outrageous claims that he's made either).

Bill Cooper is dead. He died in a shootout with Sheriff Deputies many years ago.

Originally posted by Schrödinger
But it is not always just a simple truth, you refuse to accept the fact, that truth is subjective!

No Mason here has denied that.

And that there could be things going on in the secret societies that you aren't aware off.

I'm sure there are. In fact, I guarantee it. I make no claims to be omniscient. I'll leave that to God... you know, the guy we depict with the all seeing eye.

You valse in and think you are the ultimate arbiters and keepers of "the real truth" and therefore insist that you have the last word in every debate about the structure of the secret societies.

Nonsense. We claim to have a truth, and we base our truth on our experience, and our experience within the lodge is by its very nature more informative about what goes on in the lodge room than a truth based on someone who's never set foot within a hundred feet of a lodge room.

The truth is obvious...

Bzzzzt!!!! You can't have it both ways. The truth can't be both subjective AND obvious. My truth is obvious to me, and your truth is obvious to you, but they're obviously not the same truth...

I'll go one step further and say that the Masons on ATS are more often than not trying to get the naysayers off their butts to go out and find your own truth. Stop taking YouTube videos as "proof" of anything. Recognize when baseless claims are baseless, and if you think there's any truth to them, find the base that would support that position, or if you find it's not there, build up a truth for yourself based on what you DO find with your own investigation.

It's really the only way to deny ignorance...

reply to post by T3hEn1337ened


None of the information (besides a permission slip from the parents) is kept by the Freemasons from the CHIP program.

Check with your local police lodge, they do the same program. A few years back even McDonald's was doing Child ID programs.

The masonic lodge was probably closed because nobody is there when there isn't a meeting, unless you have a bunch of coffee club guys that go up there in the morning.

Give them a call and I'm sure they will be happy to show off their facility to you.

reply to post by emsed1


Thanks for the info! I might try and get a tour of the building. I certainly didn't mean to imply that an empty building was suspicious. Quite the opposite. I also know that child ID programs are the norm these days, what with the perceived risk of child abductions being so high. That the masons don't keep any info is reassuring (unless secretly they DO! OMG, CONSPIRACY!!!)

Seriously though, I'm much more creeped out that McDonalds has/had a child identification program than the Freemasons.

Originally posted by T3hEn1337ened
Seriously though, I'm much more creeped out that McDonalds has/had a child identification program than the Freemasons.

I don't think the guy who started McDonald's was a Mason. The guy who started Wendy's was, as was the guy who started KFC... I don't think Jack is a Mason, though I'd love to see them balance a Fez on the giant ball...

you humans give the masons to much power,power that is only in your mind,the masons are not that powerful,and there are no real masons on the ats,only masons of recently.Masons of recently have no say so or no real level of high power,if you wasnt a mason from 1985 on down then your not really nothing.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by wcitizen

 

I'm not in denial about my fraternity, and I speak for no one but myself. I just don't don't give a damn about this "mountain of negative reports" you and others claim to have that proves Freemasonry is some evil cult. IMO the people in denial are the one's who refuse to listen to reason

Show me where I have ever said the information available on the internet and elsewhere proves it is an evil cult.
You can't, because I have never said that. For me, however, the sheer quantity of that kind of information which exists, and has existed over many decades, raises serious questions, as it does for many. Personally, I would not be able to subscribe to an organisation where those kind of questions remain unanswered.

. Either way I don't give a crap.

My point exactly!

Nothing that you say is going to change anything.

I didn't expect it would, I was actually replying to the OP, not you, although I think your post proves her point.

Believe all the distorted stories being played out

As I said above, the stories raise serious questions for me, I never said I believed them and I challenge you to find one single post where I did.

and sold out for profits from people like you

What is it exactly that I sell for profit? Please tell me because I am actually completely unaware that I do that.

who refuse to listen to reason.

Reason or hearsay and blind fatih?

In the end it all comes down to who is able to live harmoniously with their surroundings

In order to live in harmony with our surroundings there needs to be transparency, honesty, and an end to secrecy, as the foundation on which to build trust and goodwill. Where these things do not exist, and where many reasonable people have raised serious questions, it is harder to achieve trust and harmony.

. So in an effort to maintain that attitude towards mankind: You win.

Thanks mate, that's really generous of you.

Please continue to believe whatever you wish about my Fraternity

Thanks for giving me permission to believe what I wish ....but I didn't need it, and my questions remain.

Originally posted by aMason
Im all for hearing a good conspiracy theory.....but seriously, those who accuse the Masons of this or that have no evidence whatsoever

If there was real evidence, judicial proceedings could take place...but as you know, it's hard to get real evidence when there is secrecy. It's the same with the gubberment and all the crimes they commit - very hard to get evidence because of the secrecy.

. If they bring fourth evidence, it is usually debunked fairly quickly

I haven't seen much of that...real evidence which needed to be being debunked.

.....I will never ever disclose the "secrets" found in Masonry, but come on, anything can be found on the web these days, including Masonic rituals and so fourth.....Nothing is hidden anymore, there are no super Masonic secrets.

I don't doubt your sincerity, but I'm also aware that you could not possibly say that nothing is hidden any more. At the lower levels of masonry, I have no reason to disbelieve there are lots of decent people. But if, as some people say, the lower levels of masonry provide the 'front' for the very dark elements, of course you wouldn't be aware of those dark elements yourselves because they would be kept secret from you too.

Hell, if you are that curious you can walk into a Masonic temple, ask for a tour, meet some of the Masons......its all fairly accessible.

I've met many masons, and of course, a visit to a masonic temple would not give any answers about the issues many people are concerned about.

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527
you humans give the masons to much power,power that is only in your mind,the masons are not that powerful,and there are no real masons on the ats,only masons of recently.Masons of recently have no say so or no real level of high power,if you wasnt a mason from 1985 on down then your not really nothing.

What happened in 1985?

Originally posted by wcitizen
Show me where I have ever said the information available on the internet and elsewhere proves it is an evil cult.
You can't, because I have never said that.
...
As I said above, the stories raise serious questions for me, I never said I believed them and I challenge you to find one single post where I did.

Challenge accepted.

I am starting to believe that the 'shadow government' is the Jesuits. It seems they aren't Christians but are Luciferians.

Their art of deception and dissimilation has created many organisations and movements under different names - Zionists, Communism, Knights of Malta, Freemasons, etc, You name it, they seem to have created it - they play all parts, all roles.*

So you believe that Freemasonry is an organization or movement created by the Luciferian Jesuits. Your words. You think they created the Zionist movement too.

Zionists are a fanatical sect who call themselves Jewish, they control most of the banks and the corporations in the world, they run our governments and want to kill most of us.*

These psychos have to boast about what they do, but they do it in covert ways, so only those in the know understand the true meaning. They tell us most of what they are going to do, in quite a lot of detail, well beforehand. They do this in films, for example, I think they get a real kick out of seeing how they are 'duping' the people.

Also, I have no doubt that 9/11 was an important strategic part of their plan, so it would require special mention in something like the bizarre Denver airport, which is like an illuminati shrine.*

Totalitarianism is always developed in secret. The Illuminati plan their Agenda in secret. Secrecy is ruining and destroying our world, so yes, I take a strong stand against secrecy in today's world.*

My personal belief is that most of the so-called terrorist attacks have been engineered by TPTB, so I tend to believe there could well be something in this particular video symbolism.*

You've been quite clear on your beliefs.

Originally posted by wcitizen
I have noticed this too. Either there is a well orchestrated 'association for masonic defense' , organised to swoop, as you say....or there is a bunch of many, smug small-fry masons who are in denial about the mountain of negative reports about aspects of the masons.

Despite the apparent fond wish of your heart that there were some "well orchestrated 'association for masonic defense'", even a cursory glance by someone not harnessed to your apparent agenda would yield a response that calls your interpretation into question. Repeated half-truths, lies and outright fiction about Masonry don't magically become truth just by virtue of repetition and any smugness seems to emanate from other quarters.

Originally posted by wcitizen
They just deny it, which would, in fact, be impossible if they were sincerely following the oaths they quote in their defense. No-one with common sense and a real wish to better society would leave the too many to be ignored concerns about the dark sects within masonry.

The lurid lies and fiction that crop up have been debunked repeatedly. Believe it or not, even Masons have lives that exist when the computer gets turned off.

reply to post by kallisti36


Lol! One of my favorite OPs to date!

If the forum is dying, because of experienced Freemasons sharing their reality with you and crushing all the silly conspiracies then I would say that is a win-win-win! Freemasons get to set the record straight. Frightened conspiracy believers get to see the silliness rebuked. ATS gets to serve a purpose and become a center for elevated conversation and truth-seeking, standing true to the motto "Deny Ignorance."

So, the 6 or 10 Freemasons that I see in all of these threads, that consistently share everything possible, and offer to give first-hand accounts, and provide links to published material where all the secrets of Freemasonry are readily available seem like pretty good fellas to me, and they are doing an awesome job. Kudos!

Originally posted by T3hEn1337ened
reply to post by emsed1

 

Seriously though, I'm much more creeped out that McDonalds has/had a child identification program than the Freemasons.

Probably just trying to build their database of future customers.

Line 2

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Our Temples won't fall. Truth has kept them upright since their creation.

Long in the tooth? I'm 26-years-old!

Lies through obfuscation, lies through avoiding telling all the facts, and lies by omission are still lies.

If any "Secret Societes" were truly benevolent they would not exist to begin with.

Because there would be no secrets or need for secrecy.

Secrets begat secrets, those secrets turn to darkness, and darkness leads to evil actions.

All Secret Societies will fall eventually even to time all things must fall.

And as institutions, all "Secret Societes" are "long in the tooth", far too old for their own good.

They choke off fair trade, fair business practices for all in their favor only, and keep honest people who have no interest in belonging to their ilk from making good businesses run by oppressionist tactics, spreading lies about those businessmen, and basically using Mafia tactics through R.I.C.O. Act offenses with Government sanctioning and or interactions.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Of these federal commissions, institutions, federal reserves and ABC bureau's etc. How many of the people involved with these, would you guess are connected to a secret society?
So pulling a straw man on me, and saying oh look the federal reserve is much more corrupt that the Freemasons, really does not help your argument.

I agree that the media have been infiltrated and today control public opinion, they chose what is aired and what is not, they create allot of peoples realities, spoon feeding the ideas and agendas en masse!
I also believe that the powerful men that composes the top elite of the world, have direct ties to secret societies.

And you misunderstand something completely, I do not think that the Freemasons are the top of the pyramid, I actually speculate that you are in the bottom of the hierarchy in the world of secret societies. Blue lodge is obviously the entry barrier, where you sought through the various scrubs that apply. Then they are filtered through either the York or the Scottish rite! Then they advance up the line to things like Knights Templars, Rose Croix etc, and then on to even more secret and prestigious societies, are they deemed worthy! (Worthy = power, influence or hard currency)
THIS IS A THEORY! IT IS NOT PRESENTED AS FACT; AND YOU HAVE NO FACT THAT DISPROVES THIS! ERGO THIS IS NOT DEBUNKED!

You make the claim about ultimate arbiters indirectly!
I have seen it over the 7 years I have been here on ATS, your main argument is; YOU ARE NOT MASON ERGO YOU KNOW NOT WHAT MASON IS!

Your hypothetical situation is so biased towards the mason, that it is a joke really!
And your claim, that anyone critical of the secret society structure (hereunder; masonry) is a loon, devoid of logical and rational thought, therefore the mason is right, just reeks of pro-masonic propaganda.

I always investigate a source, ALWAYS! Again stating that anyone critical of masonry, does not check their sources from multiple accounts, is just plain wrong.

I really stopped reading your reply, I was actually getting nauseous!
You are lifting masons up to some pedestal, and completely ignoring any critical thinking in the process.

I know what I have seen over the last 7 years, and while it is not particularly bad right now (it has been worse) I am seeing this trend escalate once again.
How am I to know you aren't a mason, you look like a mason, you talk like a mason.

You surely go out of your way to defend their integrity and honor, for someone not initiated into the craft.

Just sayin.

My favorite poster here on ATS is a mason, thats no secret. However this has nothing to do with the OP or my arguments.
Masons have enlightened me more than you could ever believe, yet again that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this topic.
You are their excuse to derail this whole thread, congratulations Mr Straw.