I believe that the US militarily is powerful enough to not ever have to repay its debt.

son... wake up and smell the coffee. You cannot even win a war against some of the poorest people on earth and they are only armed with AK47s and camels..

Its game over..

and in war really there are no winners

kx

Originally posted by saabacura


Federal Reserve is a government organization which only determines the interest rate. That is their only job.
The US do not owe anything to the Federal Reserve as it is created by the government.

This statement proves that you are opinionated, but have no knowledge of the facts. You clearly know nothing, absolutely zilch about the Federal Reserve, what it is and what it does.

To the other point, I know that the US military is backed by the economy of the united states. So long as the economy of the US can support the actions aboard, through taxes paid by citizens, it will function....

This shows you know nothing, zilch about taxation, and where the money goes.

The US military is not backed by the banks.... but the economic output of its citizens as a whole... (so I guess bank is part of it) Remeber bank is just like any other private company which pays taxes to the US government

Ditto

Who has to most money in the world????

The US government.

Arrogance and ignorance - a deadly combination!

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by saabacura


Federal Reserve is a government organization which only determines the interest rate. That is their only job.
The US do not owe anything to the Federal Reserve as it is created by the government.

This statement proves that you are opinionated, but have no knowledge of the facts. You clearly know nothing, absolutely zilch about the Federal Reserve, what it is and what it does.

To the other point, I know that the US military is backed by the economy of the united states. So long as the economy of the US can support the actions aboard, through taxes paid by citizens, it will function....

This shows you know nothing, zilch about taxation, and where the money goes.

The US military is not backed by the banks.... but the economic output of its citizens as a whole... (so I guess bank is part of it) Remeber bank is just like any other private company which pays taxes to the US government

Ditto

Who has to most money in the world????

The US government.

Arrogance and ignorance - a deadly combination!

edit on 18-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

Okaaay??

The USA goes bankrupt.... The USA perhaps divides into 3 different countries for example....

where does the former federal reserve come into this scenario?? Pay interest to the Fed??? Are you stupid?

If the US goes bankrupt and the country no longer exisit, we still pay loans with interest to the Federal Reserve????

Are you really really really stupid? Does the former British Empire still have to pay their loans to their Bank of England now?????

Are you stupid?

I would not be too fast making this statement in the same thread where you keep proving over and over you haven't got a clue about the subject at hand, even though it's your own...

reply to post by Romekje


It should be crystal clear as to how dumbed down the American population has become, if not from this clueless grasp of how the financial market runs in his/her own country.

If its not on a reality show chances are they have no idea.

Realy, Hat’s off. Well done, as we know that “hard work always pays off”, after a long struggle with sincere effort it’s done. This action proof to be a win, win situation. This is a true art work, which will be a success story.There’s usually a good bunch of talent nominated- they just don’t usually win.
=====================================
Business Debt Advice

Originally posted by saabacura

Originally posted by DevilJin
reply to post by saabacura

 

My point is still valid as your comment proves nothing. The military cannot exist without the financial backing of bankers.


You may want to actually READ what we owe to the FED. It seems like you are just guessing and being opinionated.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Federal Reserve is a government organization which only determines the interest rate. That is their only job. The US do not owe anything to the Federal Reserve as it is created by the government.

If the US cease to exisit, so does the Federal Reserve... nobody owes nothing....

To the other point, I know that the US military is backed by the economy of the united states. So long as the economy of the US can support the actions aboard, through taxes paid by citizens, it will function....

The US military is not backed by the banks.... but the economic output of its citizens as a whole... (so I guess bank is part of it) Remeber bank is just like any other private company which pays taxes to the US government

Who has to most money in the world????

The US government.

edit on 18-12-2010 by saabacura because: (no reason given)

You obviously don't have even the faintest clue of how the system works. Why don't you see if you can grasp that before shooting your mouth off? For starters, the Fed is NOT a government institution, nor does it have any real money. The US govt owes EVERYTHING IT WILL EVER PRODUCE to the Fed, and then some. So do you. Duh.

Originally posted by saabacura

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by saabacura


Federal Reserve is a government organization which only determines the interest rate. That is their only job.
The US do not owe anything to the Federal Reserve as it is created by the government.

This statement proves that you are opinionated, but have no knowledge of the facts. You clearly know nothing, absolutely zilch about the Federal Reserve, what it is and what it does.

To the other point, I know that the US military is backed by the economy of the united states. So long as the economy of the US can support the actions aboard, through taxes paid by citizens, it will function....

This shows you know nothing, zilch about taxation, and where the money goes.

The US military is not backed by the banks.... but the economic output of its citizens as a whole... (so I guess bank is part of it) Remeber bank is just like any other private company which pays taxes to the US government

Ditto

Who has to most money in the world????

The US government.

Arrogance and ignorance - a deadly combination!

edit on 18-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

Okaaay??

The USA goes bankrupt.... The USA perhaps divides into 3 different countries for example....

where does the former federal reserve come into this scenario?? Pay interest to the Fed??? Are you stupid?

If the US goes bankrupt and the country no longer exisit, we still pay loans with interest to the Federal Reserve????

Are you really really really stupid? Does the former British Empire still have to pay their loans to their Bank of England now?????

As a matter of fact, the former British Empire, including those pesky American Colonies, DO still have to pay their loans to the Bank of England. And they are paying them, and have been for a long time.....

Yeah. We owe China pieces of paper in exchange for "real" items of value. China is the loser in this not the US.
We can print more paper all day long and they will keep shipping us "stuff" that is more usefull than the paper we owe them in return. Funny stuff. It is not like the us can't harvest its own food, water etc... if we are cut off from the supply of world goods. It just means we will have to work instead of sit in cubicles and pretend to work.

people, please don't fall into this somewhat understandably rational but compeltely irrational fear of the federal reserve. All countries have their own versions. They may could be corrupted, or may become corrupt to help the banks, but all countries have them. In our modern keynesian economic theory, the government has two methods of managing the economy. One being fiscal and the other monetary policy.

Remeber, all countries have monetary policy. Bank of England, Bank of Japan, Bank of China, Federal Reserve, Bank of Korea, Reserve Bank of Australia, Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency, and European Centeral Bank.... etc etc list goes on and on and on..... We live in a time period where gold is NOT a standard....

Thus, we have paper currency controlled by a national bank. It prints more money when it needs to.... It prints less money when it needs to... That is the role of the federal reserve.

However, I do agree with Ron Paul in that it may be too secretive and has no accountability.

However, according to the founders of the United States, I recall Thomas Jefferson saying something like "the monetary policy of the US should be decided by the Congress".....

Well, judging by how the modern US congress works now these days, and the people who are now elected, I do not, or can be sure that they even have a capabilities to judge where the interest rate may be....... Our elected officials are based on the US citizens who have no clue on this subjects, thus making the elected also completely clueless.....

In our modern governmental system, judging by our modern elected officials, I have no confidence in them, to judge our monetary policy either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt it. The world could stop the U.S military.

Originally posted by saabacura
people, please don't fall into this somewhat understandably rational but compeltely irrational fear of the federal reserve. All countries have their own versions. They may could be corrupted, or may become corrupt to help the banks, but all countries have them. In our modern keynesian economic theory, the government has two methods of managing the economy. One being fiscal and the other monetary policy.

Remeber, all countries have monetary policy. Bank of England, Bank of Japan, Bank of China, Federal Reserve, Bank of Korea, Reserve Bank of Australia, Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency, and European Centeral Bank.... etc etc list goes on and on and on..... We live in a time period where gold is NOT a standard....

Thus, we have paper currency controlled by a national bank. It prints more money when it needs to.... It prints less money when it needs to... That is the role of the federal reserve.

However, I do agree with Ron Paul in that it may be too secretive and has no accountability.

Yup. We dropped the good old gold standard, supposedly so back in the 70s.

So what was the value that EACH central bank of other nations based on to print their own national dollar since gold was removed?

In the 70s, it was a time of American dominance over the rest of the world, technologically advance and most important of all, more stable than any country. It was considered the richest country in the world with its mineral and highly educated human capital resources.

No one would have believed that America could fail. Everyone wanted trade in US dollars. And thus, every nation's wealth was valued and printed against the stable US dollar and the amount that they hold of it, even though they still hedge it with other relatively stable dollars such pounds and marks.

But today, we saw with horror at how USA could collapse. It's technology and production went offshore. Crippled with stupid wars. Debts at insane record highs, Masses homeless, middle class almost wiped out, cities bankrupted, and the dollar down.

Many of such countries that continued to hold the dollar saw their wealth eventually down, even though their own national dollar rose in the daily traded foreign exchange markets, as the accounting period for the financial year had not arrived to audit their treasuries.

Many other nations are now scrambling to convert such holdings into gold instead. Seems like the gold standard has returned and thus the rise in its value. And only with real gold dare a country prints its notes, backed by it and trusted by the world's communities.

This is the new global reality.

As for US, the only up for US is for the dollar to go down. Its exports will rise eventually, with more earnings to spread around and circulate, its debts burden in US dollars decreased, and overtime, if the right political policies are made, it will regain its prominence.

But today, americans have to face up that its dominance is over, in order to keep its own house in order. It military budget will have to rationalize, jobs to be created for the laid off in both govt and private sector. Govt spending for wars, aids, and the unnecessary must be cut and its revenues used for social spending on education, health and infrastructure for the next generation of technology to come.

The US may well be militarily capable enough never to have to pay its debts, but you don't need to worry about that since the US is financially unable to pay them back anyway, it's like trying to pee in the corner of a barrel. Besides, if you decided against paying them back, it would take China less than 10 minutes to send the US into a third world style famine and civil war.

Because of America's bad government decisions.
The people are the first to feel the pains. Homeless,
jobless, hungry and broke. Next the government fails,
with no pay checks, then the military with no pay checks.
The reserve oil supply gone. Needed for the military machine.
We will, with open arms welcome the Chinese. Sad, but this is
the direction are country is heading. We need to get our currant leaders
out and install new ones for the people.
May we have new leadership in 2012. The time is now to make your votes
count.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Originally posted by saabacura
people, please don't fall into this somewhat understandably rational but compeltely irrational fear of the federal reserve. All countries have their own versions. They may could be corrupted, or may become corrupt to help the banks, but all countries have them. In our modern keynesian economic theory, the government has two methods of managing the economy. One being fiscal and the other monetary policy.

Remeber, all countries have monetary policy. Bank of England, Bank of Japan, Bank of China, Federal Reserve, Bank of Korea, Reserve Bank of Australia, Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency, and European Centeral Bank.... etc etc list goes on and on and on..... We live in a time period where gold is NOT a standard....

Thus, we have paper currency controlled by a national bank. It prints more money when it needs to.... It prints less money when it needs to... That is the role of the federal reserve.

However, I do agree with Ron Paul in that it may be too secretive and has no accountability.

Yup. We dropped the good old gold standard, supposedly so back in the 70s.

So what was the value that EACH central bank of other nations based on to print their own national dollar since gold was removed?

In the 70s, it was a time of American dominance over the rest of the world, technologically advance and most important of all, more stable than any country. It was considered the richest country in the world with its mineral and highly educated human capital resources.

No one would have believed that America could fail. Everyone wanted trade in US dollars. And thus, every nation's wealth was valued and printed against the stable US dollar and the amount that they hold of it, even though they still hedge it with other relatively stable dollars such pounds and marks.

But today, we saw with horror at how USA could collapse. It's technology and production went offshore. Crippled with stupid wars. Debts at insane record highs, Masses homeless, middle class almost wiped out, cities bankrupted, and the dollar down.

Many of such countries that continued to hold the dollar saw their wealth eventually down, even though their own national dollar rose in the daily traded foreign exchange markets, as the accounting period for the financial year had not arrived to audit their treasuries.

Many other nations are now scrambling to convert such holdings into gold instead. Seems like the gold standard has returned and thus the rise in its value. And only with real gold dare a country prints its notes, backed by it and trusted by the world's communities.

This is the new global reality.

As for US, the only up for US is for the dollar to go down. Its exports will rise eventually, with more earnings to spread around and circulate, its debts burden in US dollars decreased, and overtime, if the right political policies are made, it will regain its prominence.

But today, americans have to face up that its dominance is over, in order to keep its own house in order. It military budget will have to rationalize, jobs to be created for the laid off in both govt and private sector. Govt spending for wars, aids, and the unnecessary must be cut and its revenues used for social spending on education, health and infrastructure for the next generation of technology to come.

Yes, for a while, I thought having a Gold Standard would be a good thing. But if you think about it, think of it this way. A gold standard is no different than you going to your grocery store, buying chicken, rice and veggies in exchange for your physical gold that you have in your pocket...Wow, I carry pieces of gold in my pocket, buy stuff in store, get my gold out to the cashier, measure the weight and the legitimacy of my gold, and cut it off according to what I have bought.....

An evolution from above...., since it is extremely difficult/dangerous/inconvenient/hard to measure to be carrying pieces of gold in your pocket, the government prints paper money backed by gold.... So now, instead of carrying gold metal, you can now carry currency....

So now you look at a gold standard.... If we revert to gold standard, who would be the only people in the world that have gold metal???? Do we even have enough gold to make this our means of exchange???

If we do revert it to gold, then think what would happen in this modern age... I cannot even imagine what it would be like as it would be sooo complex.

All these people who think reverting in to gold standard will only happen in these scenarios...

The whole world economy goes back into stone age.

There are no trades globally

There are no more oil in the world

People die in massive numbers like the black plague

The world economic output goes back to year 1800's

etc

So dream on with the gold standard....

Instead of going back to the gold standard, why don't we observe and monitor what the federal reserve is actually doing?

Originally posted by saabacura
Yes, for a while, I thought having a Gold Standard would be a good thing. But if you think about it, think of it this way. A gold standard is no different than you going to your grocery store, buying chicken, rice and veggies in exchange for your physical gold that you have in your pocket...Wow, I carry pieces of gold in my pocket, buy stuff in store, get my gold out to the cashier, measure the weight and the legitimacy of my gold, and cut it off according to what I have bought.....

An evolution from above...., since it is extremely difficult/dangerous/inconvenient/hard to measure to be carrying pieces of gold in your pocket, the government prints paper money backed by gold.... So now, instead of carrying gold metal, you can now carry currency....

So now you look at a gold standard.... If we revert to gold standard, who would be the only people in the world that have gold metal???? Do we even have enough gold to make this our means of exchange???

If we do revert it to gold, then think what would happen in this modern age... I cannot even imagine what it would be like as it would be sooo complex.

hmm.....how can I explain this simply?....I'll try ....

Imagine you and a group of followers of 1000 people occuppied an uninhabited large island. You declare the island yours. You and your followers set up shelters, etc to set up a primitive form of living, off the island, which is bountiful in water, fruits, fowl and arable land. You set up simple rules, a guide of for civilisation, so that all may live in peace off the island.

One day, an american sailing yacht with a family arrives at your shores, and seeks permission to tour your island. You welcome him, gave him hospitality and after 5 wondertul day, he leaves, and in gratitude, pays you US$1000. You have no need of it, for your people freely shared what they have.

A month later, another sailing family arrives at your shores and did the same thing. This time, instead of taking freely, the family paid for their fare on their island, for the board, for the food and the help, in american dollars. You now have a wealth of US$2000.

So you discuss with your followers and they agreed to share their island with others by tourism, earn the money so that modern trappings and civilisation will fill the island. A few more families came and your wealth grew to $100,000. Then you decided to go to USA, and exchange your dollars into gold.

With the gold, you return back and set up a treasury. As the money do not belong to you alone but the people as well, you write on several pieces of paper to reflect the amount of gold you have, with your signature as the leader, to the bearer that they can exchange the paper for gold anytime.

You then arrange for a turn-key contractor to build a harbour on your island. The contractor agreed to be paid monthly by the pieces of paper you create, as he has to get his labour amongst your followers and pay them, as well as for water and resources, and will take 4 months to complete the project

At the end of the project, the contractor left, after returning those balanced pieces of paper you signed in exchange for gold.

With this harbour, you are more capable of receiving more tourists to your island. They pay in US dollars to your followers, as well as entry taxes to you being the leader of the island. You then change the US dollars that your people have for the pieces of paper you have in lieu of the remaining gold you have. As gold is rather unweldly to carry around, your people trust you and that paper, and circulate it amongst the growing community to build better beds, restaurants and home. An economy blooms.

With the US dollars you have collected, you make another trip to USA and exchange it for gold. Upon returning, you print more pieces of paper base on the new amount value of your gold holdings, with your signiture, and build up your island by hiring contractors to create roads, rail, airports, etc, etc.

-------------

This is a simple explanation of 'gold standard'. It is not about distributing or replace a country's currency with gold coins or dust.

You will ponder, why gold, and not oil or something else as a reserve?

Gold is in great quantities on Earth, and most critically it does not rust. Like diamonds, they last forever. In the past and present, gold had been an ornament, but owners know that in hard times, they can melt those ornaments without it losing its properties and be exchange for commodities. Today, we may have little use for it, but in future, there may be uses yet unknown to man, for its non-rusting and gleaming properties,

thats what taxes are for, right?

Originally posted by saabacura
I believe that the US militarily is powerful enough to not ever have to repay its debt.

So people who are worried that we must repay our debt with interest... should reconsider. If you are the biggest and the most powerful bully in the world, who cares if someone gave you a little loan when you can beat them down.

Just wondering. you see the thing about debt is, is that you only have to pay your debt if there are some kind of legal, bigger than thou, institution which forces you to pay for it.

For instance, you go into foreclosure, the legal system will force you to lose your house.....

but if you are more powerful than the legal system itself (like the US military), who will/can and ever force you to lose your house?

Do we have a world legal judicial power which is stronger than the US military??? NO, as far as I am concerned.

whatchu guys think? Is this a crazy thought?

You sir, are amongst a host of other terms....A welsher.

Quite frankly......nobody likes a welsher.