9/11 - I have seen little evidence beside that of non experts, that the US gov DID IT

I am amazed that so many people on ATS have the opinion that 9/11 was committed by the US government.

I have read so many things from conspiracy theorists that contradict each other. When someone says it was not the US gov, it was Israel, they jump on board that. When one site says it was not Thermite but a small nuke people jump ship.

I have read on here about the way the buildings fell, yet without knowing 100% what caused the building TO fall you can not calculate anything because you do not have all the facts. It amazes me.

I have seen on ATS the same people state one thing and then when a new better theory comes along they adjust their story to that new perspective.

I have seen a lot of people try to analyze the "evidence" none of which they have seen up close and personal but only from photos or "untouched" video. But they still try to come over as the foremost expert on the subject and argue like crazy to shout their point across.

Then we have the people who use what the US was planning to possibly do to Cuba decades ago as CONCRETE proof that they were going to adapt it to create 9/11.


When will this type of talk come to an end? When will people stop pointing fingers when they have NO proof. Not one of you actually has real proof. Just speculation. All the evidence has to point to the same conclusion to reach an end result, NOT multiple conclusions.

One minute the US Gov did it.
Next the Jews Did it.
Then Israel.....then the "Elites", then the Muslims.
One min its thermite, next its a small nuke, next its tiny explosive all over the building.

So many theories yet all contradictions. Please end your mass accusation and finally GET some real PROOF. Not you bedroom science and pie charts.

No one has proof the US government did it. So its all FALSE accusation. Such treachery.

more than following all of the myriad of physical evidence that creates speculation ad infinitum; the money trail that precipitated the event needs to be examined more.

Just before 9/11 there was an "extraordinary" amount of put options placed on United Airlines and American Airlines stocks. Authorities believed, and some conspiracy theorists continue to maintain, that trading insiders may have known in advance of the coming events of 9/11 and placed their bets accordingly. An analysis into the possibility of insider trading on 9/11 concludes that:

A measure of abnormal long put volume was also examined and seen to be at abnormally high levels in the days leading up to the attacks. Consequently, the paper concludes that there is evidence of unusual option market activity in the days leading up to September 11 that is consistent with investors trading on advance knowledge of the attacks.
—Allen M. Poteshman, The Journal of Business

www.journals.uchicago.edu...

Who didn't see this one coming...isn't their a rule against duplicate threads or something?
2nd _______

I think that the explanation of the black boxes from the towers is what convinced me. "They" don't, or didn't want us to hear what was going on in the cockpit.

Originally posted by liejunkie01
I think that the explanation of the black boxes from the towers is what convinced me. "They" don't, or didn't want us to hear what was going on in the cockpit.

Could you explain this to me?

I did read that they never found them? But I also read that this has never happened before and that the black box is always found?

reply to post by WhizPhiz


i'm a noobie here but i did a search of my link on ATS before posting it, found nada so i figured it twas ok. if sure the subject has been broached many time before, but this is where i think that many of the answers may come to light from. the financing.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
Who didn't see this one coming...isn't their a rule against duplicate threads or something?

2nd _______

It not a duplicate thread you ________!!

It is one to do with accusations that are so far unfounded.


Always people on ATS who have their opinion dismantled wish to cry and bitch about it.

reply to post by c0ldPhr34k


Don't you think that it would be strange if we could prove it 100 percent. The guys who planned this tragedy certainly know how to conceal evidences. But watching such a documentaries like "Zeitgeist," or "Ring of Power" shows you that there was something unclear with it. Though you are right that many theories contradict to each other and this is the main problem why it's so confusing.

Peace!!!

Originally posted by AssassinsCreed
reply to post by c0ldPhr34k

 

Don't you think that it would be strange if we could prove it 100 percent. The guys who planned this tragedy certainly know how to conceal evidences. But watching such a documentaries like "Zeitgeist," or "Ring of Power" shows you that there was something unclear with it. Though you are right that many theories contradict to each other and this is the main problem why it's so confusing.

Peace!!!

that is a fair comment. But doc are always BIASED. ALWAYS.

9/11 - I have seen little evidence beside that of non experts, that the US gov DID IT

i don't know how many experts you're gonna find here on ATS

also your definition of 'expert' please, but i will only accept a expert qualified answer.

Oh such treachery, please if you only knew what you sound like. I watched this show the other night, you might have seen it also, The Third Reich, The Rise/and Fall on the history channel. Not quite exactly the same as 9/11 and the following wars, but amazingly similar. The basic similarities being that, Hitler was put into power and a couple months later the now infamous Reichstag fire took place. Within 24 hours they began suspending major rights that the whole country had enjoyed up until that point. Immediately followed by the start of ww2.

What I thought was the most interesting was the accounts of Germans that also questioned the Nazi's official story of how their Parliament had been burned to the ground. People were scared to voice their opinions, due to the Nazi's willingness to outright murder anyone who did oppose the official story(or anything else for that matter). This would be the theme throughout the regimes entire run, common German citizens that were terrified to speak up when they saw obviously dead wrong acts being committed.

Thankfully, we all do not have to live like that in today's world, but listening to you 9/11 conspiracy debunkers really makes me wonder if many of you would happily go back to those days. (Not sure where your from) but here in America, our democracy was formed on a outright suspicion of the governments ability to do the right thing.

A fair dose of patriotism is fine, but not when it comes to defending a government, that utterly fails to the point where thousands of our citizens die. Yet the same government does nothing to reprimand and punish the people who failed, and then do their best to oppose even the most rudimentary, rigged type of investigation known to a modern government(a commission). Refuse to testify on the record(Bush and Cheney, and who knows who else), take almost a decade to produce their own reports(NIST), refuse to release any of the evidence even longer(all of the agencies). Oh yeah, and outright refuse to release models and computer simulations that explain how they came to these conclusions(NIST again).

I know most here have heard this song and dance a thousand times before already. But it really bothers me when fellow Americans are opposing other Americans simply b/c they're asking questions about 9/11(or asking for monetary compensation for ill health effects that occurred after responding to the attacks).

Other than just being common bullies, or maybe Nazi's in a previous life, to be so committed in opposition against people who question the events of 9/11 is a very strange phenomenon(to me anyways). I would love to know how it effects them so personally that they feel they must quiet all opposition, until there is no one left but others like them that swallowed the whole official theory.. hook , line and sinker.

You're expecting the impossible. This is an internet forum. For every member here, there will be an opinion. Some of these opinions will be uninformed, ignorant, biased, based on emotions or outright deception. Some of them will be based on an honest examination of the facts, but even they may not agree.

It's not like there are secret meetings where everyone gets together and votes on what the "official alternative explanation" is. That seems to be what you are asking for.

If you want a consistent, alternative explanation that doesn't contradict itself, read a book or watch a documentary.

The best peer reviewed, scientific backed presentation I have seen so far is "9/11 Blueprint for truth" here video.google.com...#

I can see no problems with this material being submitted in front of a court. Clear, accurate, complete and transparent.

reply to post by c0ldPhr34k

It is one to do with accusations that are so far unfounded.

That's exactly what I meant was the duplicate topic, do you really want me to post a list of threads like this one? Here's one for example: Is this 9/11 nonsense going to ever go away? ZERO eveidence but still pushing on!. I've seen good threads closed because they were supposedly a duplicate of other threads, and this topic is one that gets brought up on ATS constantly, coincidentally it's always by an OP who appears to know next to knowing about the actual events.

EDIT: And it's all from non-experts you say? Architects and Engineers for Truth has garnered over 1200 signatures from professional engineers that support the claim the towers were brought down by explosives

reply to post by c0ldPhr34k


I do agree with you that there are a lot of sheeple and attention seekers who will just go with latest thing. Whilst there may be no "concrete-evidence" it is simple deduction logic that brings one to the conclusion of the US govt being the perpetrators. Besides if the US govt did do it, and then the evidence got out that proved it it would cause one hell of an international sh*tstorm around the world with huge repercussions. They would do anything to prevent that.

As for the deduction logic, you need to take into account a large number of things. I could go on and on here about the different things that one can deduce to lead to the fairly certain assumption that the US did it, but I will just use a few. Firstly, as with any crime, who had motive? Well the US govt had a lot, to name just one, if you look into it you will find that in Feb of 01 the US govt threatened to invade Afghanistan (why I can not remember of the top of my head) however they would have been unjustified in doing so, and needed a reason to do so. (i believe you can find the docs for this on the UN website, once again sorry it has been a while since I read it)

Secondly, why was Norad stood down at the precise time that the attacks where taking place? Perhaps it was a coincidence, once again if you look deeper into the history of NORAD for five years leading up to the attack you find some interesting things. Who has the power to stand down NORAD and has motive?

Thirdly, and I have not yet verified this part so take it with a grain of salt. The flights that were hi-jacked where not at full capacity yet all other flights were at full capacity on that day? Who could manipulate flight seating, stand down NORAD and has motive?

Fourthly comes the towers themselves, explosives of some kind had to have been used and the event thoroughly planned in order for both towers to fall on their footprints as they did. However to plant explosives in the tower of that quantity and at the precise levels would require an "all areas" access pass to the towers. Who could do that?

As I said, no, there is no "concrete evidence" it is simple deduction, and you have to take into account the event as a whole, not just videos and pictures, but documents, interviews, the lives of people involved leading up to the attacks, and when all is considered there is only one possible suspect with two variables. Either the US govt greenlighted the attacks and assisted in their execution, or the US government carried out the attacks themselves and the terrorists where simple patsies.And that is why people around the world, common people, stars, experts, and politicans alike are all calling for an inquest into 9/11 because people are becoming more and more aware that 9/11 had to be an inside job.

I have no idea what happened, as nobody here does, but I will give you the opinion I have developed from an Australian POV. Some may say who cares, we do, your flight restrictions etc effect us also.

11/9 was a tragedy, for numerous nations, not just the USA. Whoever did it needs to be hung high, & I'm against the death penalty, I'd rather see them rot in isolation for life so they suffer as long as possible. If thats Bush or Bin Laden I dont really care. Id like to know who, & case closed on Bin Laden that same day just doesnt fit right.

When it happened, I didnt know a thing about conspiracy theorys etc. I did however see that there was something not right about it, not right about the official story. I have not gone too far out of my way to find the answer, though I'd love to know. Thats one reason I joined ATS, I do know theres people on here who spend the time to really look into things, the time I dont have. I am learning who they are & value their input.

There is one thing I do know, nomatter what the question being raised is, nomatter how contradictory it is to the other questions, it is a question that, considering the impact this event had & still is having on the ENTIRE world, something needs to be answered beyong the official answer, theres just too many questions, & as with the UFO topic, if just one has merit, is it not worth investigating ??? Just one valid question is enough.

As for credible parties questioning the official story, Im surprised nobody has mentioned AE 9/11 Truth. Is not 1000+ architects & engineers a credible body to at least consider their queery ? They have more than valid points, & I personally feel that this alone is worthy of an independant investigation.

I cant deny, some of the questions raised about 11/9 have made me laugh, theres a lot of people out there who have a serious need for a good nights sleep at the very least, but from down here, when you wade past the paranoid, there are some people, like AE9/11 Truth, who have the credentials, & the genuine, scientifically based questions that, right or wrong, are questions that deserve much more than a sceptical F. Off from those who wont go outside the box. There are genuine, credible people asking genuine, credible questions. They may be wrong, but they have the background that deserves better consideration than what sceptics give them.

Dont be afraid of people who question the official story, if they are wrong, its another tick in your box, but just one good question that cant be answered is all it takes, & theres many of them.

reply to post by c0ldPhr34k


Just watch the JESSE VENTURA'S SHOWS AND RE-RUNS. The show on the pentagon last night was further proof there are no real laws in this new country,for it sure isnt america anymore. rj-

We know we have been lied to. At first it was speculation on cui bono and suspicious actions by the administration who "convenitently" used the attacks to pass absolutely appaling bills.

Also by now more like evidence galore.

www.larouchepac.com...

official documents

reply to post by WhizPhiz


Your boring!! Stop your childish behavior.

Other people have given some insightful opinions.

Not you though. Waste of ____

I admit the following:

9/11 happened

9/11 killed some 3000 people



But the evidence that people have collected from here and there and their constant belief they are right still has no direct proof that the US gov did it.

Could it of been Israel and the Jews? After all I read that they have a lot to gain. Plus I read another thread that implies that Israel may nuke two US cities. I read that thread here on ATS.

Would someone outside of the US gov more than likely be responsible?

they only way someone inside the US government did this is if it were a rogue CIA op.

That would absolve the President and is Administration!! Correct?

Maybe everyone is looking n the wrong place.