Sexist Female Oppression? Cleavage In The Workplace

reply to post by hotbakedtater


I admire you, honey, for being so bold, I really do. Absolutely nothing wrong with how you dress or behave I'm sure, but for some it's not so easy.

Sounds like I'm a similar build to you and every day I'm at work, I thank the gods I have a very frumpy uniform to wear that covers everything, cos I really can't be bothered at all with the reaction the boobies get all the time...and I mean all the damn time. I love to show them off too when I'm on the right frame of mind, which certainly doesn't include work, but when I'm on duty....nope, it's all hidden. I understand that they can be a major part of a woman's identity, and yes....why should we hide them? But we have other bits too, and no one is saying it's ok to show them off at work, are they? Ok...ok...maybe some people are........but can you see my arguement here?

I would hate to believe even for a moment that breasts played a part in any kind of decision about my work life, positive or negative...they have nothing to do with my job, and I can think of about a hundred other techniques I would choose to use first to get my way without resorting to flashing my cleavage.

But like I say...this is my no means any kind of criticism of you...you're one of my very favourite posters, and I admire how up front you are about this........

OK I'm starting think that this thread is simply a way to fish out those particular MeMbers.

Well played.

reply to post by hotbakedtater

Men must be very frightnened of the power of the breast if they are passing cleavage minded woemn over for promotions, simply due to cleavage baring!!

Yes we are! Because, if an attractive women gets a promotion there are so many pitfalls for a male. We do not want to see our careers, marriages, finances, and possibly even freedom ruined over some petty female jealousy!

Personally, I do not allow any subordinates to show ANY cleavage unless it is physically impossible to avoid (big women). I also do not allow clothing that is ridiculously tight-fitting.

I once had an employee that had a previous sexual harassment lawsuit at another job. She was a very good employee, and we had a good relationship for a full year. One day she asked to speak with me privately (which I NEVER do with a female) and that particular day she was wearing a skirt and a very tight undershirt and a low cut blouse. I asked her to meet me in an adjacent conference room, I went and recruited another female manager, and together we let her know that her attire was distracting and that she is well-aware of my policy regarding private meetings. She was sent home that day, and the next day we continued on as supervisor-subordinate!

Now that is my opinion as a male boss. I hate to have attractive females working for me, because no matter how appropriate I may act, it only takes an accusation to ruin a career. People like to gossip, and I am a fairly attractive guy, so no matter what preemptive actions I take, the rumors will still persist. The first time someone is a little jealous, the potential fall-out is devastating!

On another note, a female can discount her intellect and hard work ethic by accentuating her looks.

My sister-in-law is a very attractive female, a hard worker, and highly intelligent. She was having trouble advancing at her job, and she noticed that when she started to dress "like a school teacher" (her words) she got more attention and credit. She has toned down her wardrobe a great deal, and she has recently been promoted twice!

reply to post by caitlinfae

"I can think of about a hundred other techniques I would choose to use first to get my way without resorting to flashing my cleavage."

Please elaborate, with pictures if available.

LMAO!!! Men are so.. .. funny.

Im with the Lady, there is a place and a time. Im not too shabby myself, but I know pretty well when and where to use my assets.. so to speak. Some women are so obvious in the need for attention from males.. ANY MALE will do.. that it effects the rest of us with adversely. WHen they use the excuse of it being a feminist issue to perpetuate this.. Im plainly disgusted by that mentality. That and some women really really shouldnt be showing what they have.. some things are not attractive I dont care how BIG they are.

I was an RN back when we had to wear uniforms and stockings and not scrubs. You should have been a fly on the wall back then.. these uniforms were obviously made for small prepubescent boys.. not able to handle a boob or a hip without straining the fabric and leaving NOTHING to the imagination. Some were cotton and some were polyester. The polys gave more so we used them mostly. .. and much was revealed.. not purposely!

Not only have I just explained why the "sexy nurse" myth came into being, but Ive also explained that the male mind is a funny thing as Im convinced a man made the polyester uniforms.

IMO the younger crowd ( 20's or 30's) doesnt get it that you can be incredibly sexy.. and not show all your cleavage. You also dont need to see butt cleavage with these low riders either.. Now I get to see teen cleavage of all sorts top and bottom.. every time my daughters friends come over. Its all good for everyone when its an attractive woman showing what she has apparently.. but this also applies to the unattractive.. which can be a compete gross out.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


ok you think its sexist or oppressive i get it thats your opinion.

But let me ask you something have you looked at it from the side of the employer? As an employer I'm not paying anyone to show off their Cleavage, dress sexy etc while on my dime. While on my dime I'm paying you to do your job and do it in a professional manner and in professional attire suited for you job. do you have to wear business suits or turtlenecks? No just dress professional. dress shirt slacks, skirt etc.

While i'm at work the last thing i want to see is alot cleavage And the Majority of the customers do not want to see it either.

I'm sorry there is a time and place to show off your better assets as you say but at work is not the place for it. unless your a stripper or work at Hooters, or someplace similar.

would i pass a female employee over for a promotion or pay raise if she continually dressed in attire that showed cleavage. probably not since i would base her promotion or pay raise on her actual job performance. And most employers are like me and advance their employees on their ability to do a good job.

Now if a female that continually dresses in attire that shows cleavage is passed over of a promotion or pay raise i can see where she might think it was because of her choice of attire but I'd Strongly suggest to them that they take a long hard look at their actual job performance because that is probably why they were skipped over. not because of what they wear.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
reply to post by caitlinfae

 

"I can think of about a hundred other techniques I would choose to use first to get my way without resorting to flashing my cleavage."

Please elaborate, with pictures if available.

edit on 16-12-2010 by harrytuttle because: (no reason given)

Ummmm...........no!

It's not sexist it is called millions of years of evolution. Men are attracted to breasts and have sexual thoughts when they see them get over it. Expecting them to just suppress their nature is ridiculous. As for passing women over for showing more cleavage personally I think those bosses are idiots. However I wonder if they are consciously doing it? I also wonder if it is a conscious decision if they feel it will be a distraction on the job? Personally A rather large pair are going to attract attention regardless of whether they are showing cleavage or not. Every guy in the place is thinking man I'd like to get a look at those naked unless perhaps they are gay.

Originally posted by Advantage

... Now I get to see teen cleavage of all sorts top and bottom.. every time my daughters friends come over.

Its all good for everyone when its an attractive woman showing what she has apparently.. but this also applies to the unattractive.. which can be a compete gross out.

Lol at that paragraph and so True!

Boys and GIrls, cover the butt-cleavage too!

Originally posted by caitlinfae

Originally posted by harrytuttle
reply to post by caitlinfae

 

"I can think of about a hundred other techniques I would choose to use first to get my way without resorting to flashing my cleavage."

Please elaborate, with pictures if available.

edit on 16-12-2010 by harrytuttle because: (no reason given)

Ummmm...........no!

No star for you.....

Originally posted by SLAYER69
OK I'm starting think that this thread is a way to fish out those MeMbers with large cleavage.

Well played.

Oh bugger....I didn't think of that before opening my big gob....as usual!

reply to post by getreadyalready


Let me add that I also once inherited an employee that was more than willing to do anything to keep her job. Everyone was afraid to take her on as an employee, because she needed to be fired, but she was an expert at giving the wrong impressions and nobody wanted to be the one that rebutted her and addressed her shortfalls as an employee.

So, I did exactly that. It took me several months, but I did eventually terminate her employment. During those several months I got complaints filed from her coworkers that I was giving her special treatment (they had no idea what was going on behind the scenes, they just saw a lot of meetings with her). When she was let-go, she indeed filed a sexual harassment claim, but I had preemptively filed one of my own, and I had saved every little bit of correspondence via email, message, notes, etc. The pattern of her flirtations and my professional responses was abundantly clear and the claim was not investigated.

Amazingly she was hired at a sister organization almost immediately and subsequently promoted!

Some 'ass'ets are better than others!

I'm all for people wearing whatever they feel comfortable in.

However, in the real world, we all make judgements based on impressions. How we dress, plays a part in how others view us.

If a bloke wore tight, I mean really tight trousers that highlighted and outlined the shape and size of his groin organ, would that be seen as acceptable and business like? Well, I suppose it depends on what business he's in but the point of any uniform is either to protect the person or project an image to the outside world.



I'm all for people being able to wear what they want, whether it be nipple tassels, a clowns outfit, g string or hot pants. It makes no odds to me as long as safety was adhered to and they can do their job.

Can you imagine frying a basket of chips in a hot fryer of oil in a bikini? A bit daft but people are in general including me.

We all like to believe what we see. We see a man in a suit; he's honest, intelligent and smart.
We see the same guy in a pair of shorts and a hoodie and we see him as something completely different.

I don't think it is a question of size, although it may be difficult to keep under control from time to him. If you have larger breasts, try a top that is straight across the top of the breast (with shoulder straps) and a fitted jacket./ Cardigan.

There are plenty of t-shirt type tops with V-Neck, that would be entirely appropriate. However the word is "plunging". and the mix of large breasts and plunging neck lines, maybe even with a bit of under-wire, is in all honesty just asking to be talked about around the water cooler!

Why?

Human Nature.

But if you rolled into my office wearing a skirt, open neck blouse, that's fine.

If you rolled in wearing a mini skirt and a top configuration whereby the full shape of the breasts and cleavage was there for all to see. as proud as you may be of them, and as much as I may enjoy looking at them. there are better forums for that. and the office is just not one of them.

I will tell you a story. When i was an apprentice, I was friendly with the PA. A very ordinary looking woman, always smart, professional looking. Never needed to be daring. We went out for a company party one night. And I was at the bar. In front of me was this gorgeous blond woman, with a fantastic figure. She turn around after getting served, smiles at me and says "HI jakiusfogg (obviously my name) great to see you, come sit with me, and the others etc etc" my jaw almost hit the floor!!! seriously I had a bruise for days after! hehe. Yes it was the same woman!, just "out of hours"

But the point is she did not need to dress to impress (in that way) in the office, she was good at her job, and a stone cold fox out of it. and she knew the difference. That shows class, as well as professionalism.

Don't mix business with personal (or personnel)
Welcome to the jungle, hope you enjoy your stay!

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
Why?

Human Nature.

But if you rolled into my office wearing a skirt, open neck blouse, that's fine.

If you rolled in wearing a mini skirt and a top configuration whereby the full shape of the breasts and cleavage was there for all to see. as proud as you may be of them, and as much as I may enjoy looking at them. there are better forums for that. and the office is just not one of them.

All joking aside.
That hit the nail on the head IMO. Can't be anymore brutally honest than that.

Originally posted by LadySkadi

Originally posted by Advantage

... Now I get to see teen cleavage of all sorts top and bottom.. every time my daughters friends come over.

Its all good for everyone when its an attractive woman showing what she has apparently.. but this also applies to the unattractive.. which can be a compete gross out.

Lol at that paragraph and so True!

Boys and GIrls, Men and Women - cover the butt-cleavage too!

edit on 16-12-2010 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)

HEH..





Lets keep it real real...
Since we're on the subject and there are some men here.. I need to mention spandex bike shorts and speedos. Now men.. I do love you... men are awesome.. but it is a fact that with your junk flopping all over it really reminds me of of those rubber plucked joke chickens. I cant help it. Initially you make me giggle.... and then some fool has to come out wearing a speedo or bike shorts. Its NOT attractive. I dont care how large or shapely you junk or butt is when youre striking the he-man pose. .. its really comical when you wear those things. Id think in 2010 speedos and bike shorts would be outlawed.. nope. I was assaulted with them even this past summer.

i reckon we should all go to work naked...althought maybe not in the winter...

reply to post by Advantage


Fully agree Advantage. As i said, I would apply the same rules to men as well as women. and we do look silly in thise lycra shorts!!,

And to be honest that are not good for the health of the boys downstairs!!

Anyway.

time and place. and keep it in place at the time!

reply to post by Advantage


You ain't seen me in my speedos luv.

You'd give me a job.