U.S. Rethinks Strategy for the Unthinkable

Ha! An atomic bomb? I'd hide though cause leaving is suicide - the chemicals in the air will kill ya. Either way, I think we are toast if there is an atomic bomb.

i believe that, unless you're directly beside the bomb or within a few hundreds yards, you won't survive, but if you manage to get an area protected fromt the secondary effects, like fire, shockwave and radiation you'll probably survive.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

there was also a thread here on ATS not long ago
where nuclear materials were stolen or missing
from Poland I think. Those materials could be
used for a dirty bomb I believe. Can't find that
thread off hand but it was here.

Yes, and maybe they do know something
is coming and just can't say. It's a perfect
way to implement martial law and take ur guns
at the same time with everybody holed up in their
house.

stay alert, stay alive

I hate to state the obvious....but....isn't the OP's article telling you to, and I'm paraphrasing here, to stay indoors...like at home? I recall a pilot friend telling me seatbelts in airliners are there to keep you in the seat with the number on it so when it crashes, they can figure out it's you.
This smacks of the same thing.

"Stay where we have you labeled to be."

Keeps the body count that much more accurate.

Just sayin'

Cuhail

"Suppose the unthinkable happened, and COMMUNISTS struck New York or another big city with an atom bomb. What should people there do? The government has a surprising new message: Do not flee. Get inside any stable building and don’t come out till officials say it’s safe."

oops, I think I quoted that twenty years too late

I think the survival rate is subject to so many variations....all arbitrary, that its really just a turkey shoot.
Ive heard a story that when Nagasaki got hit, the underground factory workers in the mitsubishi airplane factory didnt even know it had happened......You could be on the wrong side of a brick wall, and that would be the difference of living or dying in the initial effects....shock wave, flash.heat wave etc.
The chances are you could survive one effect and succomb to another....the whole situation is fraught with unspeakable horror.
Once out beyond the radius of the blast and heat the chances become better for initial survival, but the prognosis is still not good...Radiation poisoning is a very nasty way to die,and the injuries sustained in the blast would be serious ones as a rule.
All in all, id say it would be worth being straight up with the public and just stop trying to candy coat this type of crucial information.
The facts, are important to the wellbeing of millions of us potential victims.
Do we go upstairs or down?(already two different aanswers to that. in this thread)
How do we decontaminate ourselfves of caught in a dust storm from collapsing buildings orr secondary exlosions?
Is it expedient to simply rinse thoroughly with plain water?
How much iodine should we drink if exposed to radiation?sic(what really s done for treatment?)
(perhaps it would be simpler to takke a lethal dose?)
I would definately pay attention to a simple and factual presentation of what to actaully expect,
Then theres the dirty bomb...what kind of precautions can one reasonably take if that scenario happened?
should i make sure i have a set of rubber gloves, respirator, rubber raincoat and rubber boots in the trunk of the car with my bug out bag?

Depends on how close during the supposed event. Too close and it doesn't matter much, everything's pretty much toast in one way or another. Digging in would make sense for the blast irradiated areas. (Which would only be a few miles considering the type of bomb in this scenario.) But further out, my first goal depending on the prevailing winds (screw the authorities) would be to get the hell out of the fallout zone. Fifty miles in any direction outside of the presumed downwind swath should be clear enough. (If you're in far enough the burbs and upwind, you could probably view the mushroom cloud on the horizon and still be plenty safe.)

Of course I probably wouldn't be alone in such thinking. Whether to stay or go is relative to my proximity and the weather.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


I wouldn't be surprised if the government knew something we didn't....

I mean they knew about Pearl Harbor
They probably knew about 9/11
Me thinks they know something....
Oh and I saw on Glenn Beck the other day that our military has to learn a new protocol for massive domestic disasters.
You can read about that here www.military.com...

I think the best way to avoid something like this is to keep track of where the big boys/girls are..

If they suddenly all leave town, follow them FAST..

What exactly constitutes a "Stable" building in NYC???

As I remember it, they tend to collapse upon themselves, if simply an airplane crashes in to them....

So when a nuke goes off?????

Well, there goes the neighborhood...

Originally posted by freetree64
What exactly constitutes a "Stable" building in NYC???

The sewer system. It is not common knowledge, but a lot of American cities have HUGE underground networks underneath them. This is really the only human defense against nukes dropped on them... and since all humans enjoy the sun, we have not nuked each other yet.

Besides the nuclear fallout and radiation I should be pretty safe if anyone decided to nuke my city.

The following site help you check the blast radius of different bombs in whatever city you choose

Nuke my town

Did nobody see the movie 'Wag The Dog'? Made in about 1996/97 it predicts the new threat to America and the west will be muslim nuclear terrorism. Looks like they're sticking to a script to me.

WAG THE DOG - Whole Movie

Have you ever wondered what would happen if a nuclear bomb goes off in your city? With Google's Maps framework and a bit of Javascript, you can see the outcome. And it doesn't look good.

Ground Zero Simulator I
www.carloslabs.com...

Ground Zero Simulator II
www.carloslabs.com...

Just pick your location and the bomb
and see how far the damage goes.

reply to post by Jakes51

Is the the government priming people for a nuke attack on the United States?

McGraw-Hill and Scholastic are busy reprinting the periodic table.

This has got to be the most ludicrous articles I have ever seen. Almost as comical as the old "Duck and Cover," video from the Cold War. If anyone happens to be in a city where one of these monsters is detonated, they are screwed.

The chances of surviving a nuclear strike are actually quite good. Nuclear weapons fall into two ranges - kiloton and megaton. Generally speaking, kilotons are tactical-yields and intended to be used at low altitudes for destruction of military and specific strategic resources. While intense - their area of effect is quite small - usually no more than about a mile radius. There is substantial overpressure and fallout. People in high-rises will be worse off than those at street level or below - but the biggest threat is radioactive fallout.

Megaton nuclear weapons are strategic in nature - designed to damage cities and civilian populations. They are detonated at high altitude to create a massive overpressure wave that does most of the destructive work. People on the street would be in danger of being flash-burned - but how severe (and whether or not it is instantly lethal) would depend highly upon the yield and altitude. Damage to infrastructure is likely to be quite high - and most initial casualties will be from damage to infrastructure. Again - those left alive are then immediately threatened by radioactive fallout.

Terrorists - even if they have a megaton-yield bomb, are more than likely going to do a ground-level detonation. About the worst case scenario is if they get a suitcase nuke (kiloton yield) and get it up a few thousand feet using a private airplane. Neither is very destructive in the scale of nuclear warfare.

What makes radioactive fallout so lethal is its proximity (inverse square law) - the dust will accumulate on your skin, in your clothing, and even be absorbed into your body through your lungs and mouth. With relatively short-half-lives of a few days, these isotopes are putting off massive amounts of radiation. Limiting exposure to the dust and removing it once you have found refuge, is essential.

It is also chemically lethal or otherwise troublesome. Cesium is chemically similar to potassium and will replace it in many plants. Both potassium and Cesium are radioactive - but the fallout variety of Cesium is -very- radioactive. Be leery of eating fruits and vegetables from a fallout-contaminated area in the years following a nuclear strike (presuming this is a really big deal and society collapses and there is no one to come around and clean up after this). Background radiation will be very within acceptable levels - but eating the coconuts at bikini island will make you sick and kill you. Other stuff in the fallout, such as unspent plutonium, is very toxic and generally bad for your health.

Fallout is the issue. If you have to go out-doors to re-locate, and can - wet your clothing in dish detergent (or just wet it) and place a moist cloth over your face (if you have a CBR mask, that's preferred, or a mask capable of filtering very fine dust particles used in the industry will work). Move fast, then remove your clothing and be sure to rinse and remove any dust. Finding uncontaminated clothing is preferable than attempting to wash and re-use the clothing you just used - so keep that in mind before making the decision to relocate amidst fallout.

Place anything you want to take with you in bags that are as air-tight as possible - if you are using a larger bag (like a duffel bag or something) - wetting it in the same fashion as your clothing is also advised.

"Why am I wetting myself?"

Because you're in a hell-on-earth.

More seriously -

Wetting the clothing is done so that any dust that contacts your person is 'clumped' to the garment. When you reach your destination (whether it was to go outside and return to this place, or to move to another), you do not want to be flagging that dust all over an otherwise clean environment. You simply remove your clothing and place it in the corner (or outside - the main thing is that you can place distance between it and yourself, and that whatever dust is on it, stays there, and doesn't contaminate the rest of your environment).

Obviously - the risks in moving should be carefully weighed. In either case - if you do have to move, it is important that you do everything you can to keep from spreading fallout all over your new environment while removing any that has accumulated on you. You should also keep in mind that many sources of water could be contaminated. Don't drink water that appears to be contaminated, and preferably only drink from sealed containers.

If the event is isolated - you can expect Guard and other EMS to respond within hours. This should, generally, make moving from any safe location quite foolish. However, the above is given in the event moving does become necessary due to needs (water, most critically), or imminent danger, or some other reason your current location is unsustainable.

Perhaps, to save ourselves we can put duct-tape on windows (haha!) or run to the nearest church and pray? This is something to be aware of, but there is not much that can be done. Either you are lucky or not.

The lucky ones died instantly or within the first thirty seconds and don't need to worry about surviving.

If you are one of the unlucky ones, you are not out of the woods, yet, just because you didn't burst into flames or get smashed inside of a high-rise.

Putting duct-tape on the windows is, perhaps, a little extreme. You would certainly want to close the windows. However, asphyxiating yourself is a danger when you start trying to make your own little house in a bubble. The main thing is to place a distant barrier between you and the radioactive fallout. Putting a few extra feet between you and where it is piling up is about as good as an extra inch of concrete.

Why is the government kicking around this old dog? We all know how devastating a nuclear bomb is when it was detonated over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and in tons of videos from the Cold War era.

Because the time to give out instructions on how to respond to something is ASAP... not when it's happening and people are crapping themselves.

Just some more paranoia and fear mongering. Put it in the trash can with the rest of it. It is really getting tiresome, and we have more than enough on our plates to keep us busy with fear. It is simple, if one goes off; be somewhere else.

People are interesting animals. I sit down in a room and I tell you: "Alright... we all know that every business day, we have a chance to run out of toner in the copy machine. If this should happen to you... here's the plan."

Then I'm called a fear-monger for scaring people into thinking the copy machine is going to run out of toner at any minute, trying to incite panic.

Change the scenario: "Hey, if one of those nuclear weapons goes off... and you're still alive to worry about it... here's what you do."

"Fearmonger!"

Yes, that's the plan, to panic. I want you to panic and get yourself killed. That's exactly why you're being given some advice on how to respond to a situation.

Additionally - nuclear weapons have been exploded in the minds of the public. They are hardly as terrifying of a firecracker as they appear. Your more average 50-kiloton device is only going to be a problem if you are within about a mile of ground zero. Even if you get up into 200 kilotons, you're still pretty safe if you're outside of about two miles. It'll be unlike anything you've ever experienced, but the ceiling isn't likely to come down on your head.

Now - if one of the same size were set of in this town... yeah - it'd pretty much take the whole place out. But Kansas City - St. Louis (more likely targets) - it'd take something like Russia's insane Tsar Bomba to take it out in one go. Though a more economical use of one-megaton yields in a geometric pattern from a MIRV would create problems.

We're unlikely to see that from terrorists, however.

I live pretty close to 200 warheads. Deadliest paperweights on the planet. We have the warheads - not the propellants. Feels like a gun to the head.

Here is a TV show (on Spike TV) that in my opinion contained very important information based on a nuclear attack scenario and this was hands down my favorite episode. I learned a lot from it and the information in it could very well save your life, or the lives of your loved ones should you be in an area that is attacked by a nuclear weapon.

Contrary to popular belief, depending on the size of the bomb, you can survive a nuclear detonation being as close as 1 mile out, but you have to do the right things, one wrong move or one poor choice can be the difference between being a survivor or a victim. In this episode, they use 2 separate points of view. The first being 1 mile out, the second being 3 miles out. I have personally watched this countless times and have put it to memory, but that's just me.

Surviving Disaster- Nuclear Attack

reply to post by freetree64

What exactly constitutes a "Stable" building in NYC???

This should be pretty apparent after a nuclear weapon has gone off in proximity. If it is still standing and not making scary noises, it is probably stable. In general, stability is inversely proportional to height; which is directly proportional to the likelihood of collapse. Keep this in mind when dealing with a number of disasters, not just nuclear.

As I remember it, they tend to collapse upon themselves, if simply an airplane crashes in to them....

Office buildings are, generally, not built to take an air-liner slamming into them at super-NASCAR speeds. Your garage is not built to keep your car from driving right on through the wall. It keeps the cold out and kind of implies the car is not supposed to go any further than that.... but if you insist....

So when a nuke goes off?????

Most sky-scrapers will actually be pretty safe. They are designed to take some pretty serious winds and have some pretty heavy duty windows. I am not sure if those windows could withstand 5 psi or not - or the framing they are in - but the actual structure would hold up just fine.

Problems you might face if in one would be retina and skin burns from the initial blast. Depending upon proximity, you may be sitting in a building full of shrapnel (glass) that is about to be blown all over. It would be recommended that you get intimate with the deckplate if you have any warning to do so. Provided that is over and you're not on fire, bleeding all over the place, or being thrown from the building - it's probably a good idea to seek a place that is far less breezy - because fallout is headed your way and it's not going to wait. Get yourself and help to organize any others and go to the basement (most high-rises have them).

It may sound cruel - but you should not stop to help wounded. First - time is critical - you may have little more than a few minutes before the fallout starts settling. Stopping to help all but the least critically of injured is jeopardizing you and your party. Second - this is survival. That guy with a few broken limbs and cuts all over his body is in bad shape - he is likely to get infections and increase the likelihood of transmission to your party later, he will be consuming resources that are in short supply - loss of blood is a loss of water, and water is one of your most critical of resources as it's one of the most likely of resources you may have to venture out to find, later, if help does not arrive within a day or two. Third - a dead person hurts morale. Bringing along a half-dead person is asking for problems, later. You cannot operate under the presumption help will be there in a few hours.

Going down into the subways or sewers might be an okay idea - the only problem with the sewers would be that there's still substantial risk of contamination. This is also dangerous if it begins to rain (we all like to think this is going to be on a warm sunny day ripe for filming) and any run-off is a potential source of contamination. Rain would be a good thing for survivors and help to cleanse the air of radioactive dust - but not if everyone is in the sewers.

You are going to be better off in a basement or closed, large building (like a chapel). You want at least one of two things - dense materials to provide resistance to radiation (concrete, steel, that sort of stuff) or distance between you and the radiation (a large, closed building with a high roof - such as a cathedral), or a combination thereof (the basement of a cathedral). Generally speaking, underground is good - hanging out in the wind is bad.

You should probably take the first available spot that looks acceptable. Getting in it before the fallout starts raining down is pretty important. You'll only gamble time away searching for a more suitable spot that will have any of its advantages negated if you end up coming in looking like a radioactive snowman.

If there are doors, lock them and provide a barricade. It may sound cruel - but the survival of you and/or your group is your primary responsibility. There will be a bunch of fools running around in the fallout and they are bound to come trying to get in. If you have a fire-arm - post a watch and have anyone attempting to force entry shot.

It sounds cruel - but when this stuff is real, you will realize just how lethal idiots can be. Don't let their natural selection be yours.

The only time you should unlock the doors and remove the barricade is when all signs of life outside have ceased and/or you feel weak. This will allow rescue forces to you if you are rendered unconscious. This is where having a group helps - you can have sleep and watch rotation.

Well, there goes the neighborhood...

You will probably have to look at renting a new apartment or purchasing a home some place else, yes.

reply to post by boondock-saint


Just for You..... boondock-saint

www.abovetopsecret.com...

thanks for remembering..

PDUK

Originally posted by Topsy_Cret
Besides the nuclear fallout and radiation I should be pretty safe if anyone decided to nuke my city.

Well hopefully you don't get hungry if you manage to survive the intense thermal explosion (that will melt you) and the even larger pressure wave (which will probably take the oxygen, and your lungs, right out of your body), unless you want to eat heavily radiated food.

There's only one thing you can do in a nuke scenario: GTFOASAP.