The Conspiracy to Deny the Spirit

Re mike184ever

Isn't redeeming a wonderful invention.

The whole fringe of fanatic christianity can spread a book of murder and rape, can commit atrocities for centuries, but that's all forgiven, justified, explained or excused (your choice) because atheists 'call you names'.

Poor, poor persecuted christianity.

Btw I'm not an atheist nor anything else on the scale towards theism.

Originally posted by bogomil
Re mike184ever

Isn't redeeming a wonderful invention.

The whole fringe of fanatic christianity can spread a book of murder and rape, can commit atrocities for centuries, but that's all forgiven, justified, explained or excused (your choice) because atheists 'call you names'.

Poor, poor persecuted christianity.

Btw I'm not an atheist nor anything else on the scale towards theism.

You know what? I can't find a single instance of murder, rape, or atrocity that wasn't attributed to man. You see, the Bible is as much a testament of our faith as it is a history of it. Sadly this faith has existed on Earth where people kill, rape, and commit attrocities. Just because Christianity is in the supposed majority (I say supposed because most of that billion are 'cultural' Christians as opposed to Christians with real faith) doesn't mean they can't be persecuted. Governments made up of a few have been persecuting the many since government began. Going after anyone with vitriol and hatred is persecution whether it is 'The Turner Diaries', 'Godless', or 'The God Delusion'. This persecution is a rhetorical one here in America where prejudice is protected by the 1st until it comes to blows. However, we all know strong words can turn to blows, given the wrong circumstances. But by and large, Christians in America know very little of persecution. This is not the case elsewhere in the world, Christian missionaries are being killed in Africa, Christianity in North Korea (and other communist countries) is a sham and real Christians are persecuted as enemies of the state. and Christianity is dying in 'rational' countries where it is being strangled by propaganda and atheism is being supercharged in education (I'm not against evolution by the way, everyone thinks you can't believe in evolution and be Christian). So, Christianity is being persecuted, you just won't find them being flayed alive here.

Re Kallisti

Christianity doesn't need much counter-propaganda to become impopular. It does that mostly by its own merits. Former and present.

In any case, the main criticism here is directed against those christians, whose megalomaniac self-appointed superiority has lead them to believe, that they have special divinely sanctioned privileges to interfere with peoples lives. The basic attitude is openly fascistic.

So I don't think, you'll get much sympathy on the line of poor persecuted christianity, especially not when the examples are missionaries, who in their fanatical zeal go to 'enemy-land' of muslim countries, where they are not invited to mission and generally are not welcome.

In communist countries all religions are considered with suspicion.

Quote:

".......and real Christians are persecuted as enemies of the state."

Amongst christians there is deep disagreement about who 'real' christians are, but to stay with those christians I address with my criticisms, they are by their fascism actually enemies of the state, and if they transgress secular laws, they are ofcourse criminals.

Web-preachers like you will usually not be exposed to more than strong opposition, but even that you find unfair. Did you seriously believe, that your kind just can walk in here and convert us?

reply to post by kallisti36


have a great day

reply to post by bogomil


When I make a distinction between real Christians and false Christians in North Korea, I am not talking about Oneness Pentecostal vs. Reformed Baptist denomination bickering tripe. I am talking about how the North Korean government puts up front churches that teach Juche and North Korean propaganda as a part of sermons. This is false Christianity because 1. it is a show put on for tourists so they don't know that most Christians and 3 generations of their family are in prison camps and 2. these ideologies are in conflict with the basic tenets of Christianity.

You have a very loose interpretation of the word fascist (don't worry most people do). Fascism is National Socialism in which a dictator or oligarchy has totalitarian socioeconomic power. The word fascism is one of the best examples of TPTB loading the language because the common definition is:
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism

reply to post by mike184ever


You as well

reply to post by bogomil


have a nice day

Re Kallisti

You wrote:

"You have a very loose interpretation of the word fascist (don't worry most people do)"

Some common usage definitions:

1. Oppressive, dictatorial control. (American Heritage Dictionary)

2. (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice......Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach. (Oxford Dictionary of the US Military)

3: Genuinely fascist ideologies are: monist, that is to say, based upon the notion that there are fundamental and basic truths about humanity and the environment which do not admit to question; simplistic, in the sense of ascribing complex phenomena to single causes and advancing single remedies; fundamentalist, that is, involving a division of the world into ‘good’ and ‘bad’ with nothing in between; and conspiratorial, that is, predicated on the existence of a secret world-wide conspiracy by a hostile group seeking to manipulate the masses to achieve and/or maintain a dominant position. (Oxford Dictionary of Politics).


Can't see how this differs from your attitude. Quote:

"If we all lived under God's law we would live in a paradice in his presence, but God is not 'fascist', he gave us free will and will not force anyone to follow his rules. Just don't be surprised if you are cast out of paradise into the darkness (all possibilities of hellfire aside)."

(My comment: Sometimes in the mundane world, sometimes in opposition to what could be a schizoid astral entity).

So we are free to make decissions, but there will be dire consequences, if we go against self-appointed 'authority'. What a peculiar twist to 'free will'. Sounds very similar to: "All which is not compulsary is forbidden", with the gunpoints hidden under your sugar-coating christian rhetorics.

I think, I'll take my chances and stay clear of your invasive fables. So keep the firewood and matches dry in case you should come back to power again. Maybe you can 'save me' by burning the unholiness out of me.

Originally posted by bogomil
Re Kallisti

You wrote:

"You have a very loose interpretation of the word fascist (don't worry most people do)"

Some common usage definitions:

1. Oppressive, dictatorial control. (American Heritage Dictionary)

2. (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice......Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach. (Oxford Dictionary of the US Military)

3: Genuinely fascist ideologies are: monist, that is to say, based upon the notion that there are fundamental and basic truths about humanity and the environment which do not admit to question; simplistic, in the sense of ascribing complex phenomena to single causes and advancing single remedies; fundamentalist, that is, involving a division of the world into ‘good’ and ‘bad’ with nothing in between; and conspiratorial, that is, predicated on the existence of a secret world-wide conspiracy by a hostile group seeking to manipulate the masses to achieve and/or maintain a dominant position. (Oxford Dictionary of Politics).


Can't see how this differs from your attitude. Quote:

"If we all lived under God's law we would live in a paradice in his presence, but God is not 'fascist', he gave us free will and will not force anyone to follow his rules. Just don't be surprised if you are cast out of paradise into the darkness (all possibilities of hellfire aside)."

(My comment: Sometimes in the mundane world, sometimes in opposition to what could be a schizoid astral entity).

So we are free to make decissions, but there will be dire consequences, if we go against self-appointed 'authority'. What a peculiar twist to 'free will'. Sounds very similar to: "All which is not compulsary is forbidden", with the gunpoints hidden under your sugar-coating christian rhetorics.

I think, I'll take my chances and stay clear of your invasive fables. So keep the firewood and matches dry in case you should come back to power again. Maybe you can 'save me' by burning the unholiness out of me.

Wow you really are paranoid, welcome to ATS! I know the dictionary definition of fascism and it's dead WRONG. Fascism was/is a political system marked by prejudice, extreme-right ideology (let's throw out what the political spectrum actually means), monism, intolerance, and oppression. So how did they sell the idea? "Mr. Hitler, what is the National Socialist Party's platform" "Thank you Greta. Well we are taking the oppressive viewpoint of government, we won't tolerate debate, and we absolutely despise the deomcratic progress". You know how they say that "History is decided by the victors" well that's what happened to fascism. Now it's an insult and nobody has any idea that it still has a big following today (not Christian).

No real Christian would force you to convert and follow God's law. I say no real Christian because there are really ffuch-ed up people (nice acronym) that very well in their ignorance might. That's pretty insulting to say that I would kill you in a position of power. I'm sorry, do you know me? Have you even read the Bible or it's many apologists? God might show up one day and punish the wicked, but even during Armageddon you have the chance (and a damn obvious one at that) to be saved. We still have free will and God will not force you to listen to him. I'm just saying quite plainly, that you won't get into Heaven this way. It's only fair: God's house; God's rules.

Re Kallisti

I don't want to carry the basically same debate on two different threads. I'm moving to the one, where you latest contacted me. This other thread allows for a continuation from the present one without going off-topic.

Greetings Bogo

If you look at any mediaeval city in the UK the highest buildings were always the cathedrals - emanating power and wealth to the masses. Nowadays the highest buildings are banks and other big businesses. Are we better off? Are we more fulfilled than we were 600 years ago? I think more people now don't know what is REALLY important to them i.e. they work far too long and don't give enough time for their family.

I disagree with the main religions in so many ways but admit that actually they have it right about what is important - far more than any big business [the BT advert of a manager making a phone call to their daughter across the world is particularly galling, if she means so much to her father he should be there in person].

The other thing that I think WE all suffer is death.Only 100 years ago, we all knew deaths with babies, in childhood etc. While modern medicine has been great to stamp this out, as survivors we don't realise how precious we are and how important life is; we have not had the reminders of death so much. So we are blase - and this affects our spirituality