Wouldn't Federal Tax Cuts to the wealthy really be a welfare benefit aimed at the wrong demographic

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater

Ya see the problem with people like you is that you only pay attention to what backs up your agenda.

You mistakenly believe the Supreme Court knows better than the founding fathers did.

Do you believe each and every SCOTUS decision is correct?

It doesnt matter what I believe ITS THE LAW OF THE LAND. I could give double donkey dink, and it wouldnt matter, because it is the established law of the land as decided by its highest court. If you dont like it, maybe you need to love it or leave it. Sucks when that swings against you, eh?

The rest of your post was just one giant personal attack...all you have in the face of facts. Again.

You are hilarious.

The Constitution is the law of the land, not an interpretation of it.

You believe the supreme court knows the Constitution better than the people who actually wrote it.

Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government. - James Madison

reply to post by Gorman91

And to memory, Rome was the last time a nation's government actually did what the people wanted and the last time the government was legitimately afraid of what would happen if they failed to do what the people wanted.

I assume that means that you would be perfectly happy to be thrown to the lions by the government, if the "people want it"?
I'm sorry, but your lack of compassion for those who, through no fault of their own, were born into poverty, with little chance of escape, is quite sickening to me. It reminds me of the eugenics movement of the 1930's in the US and Germany. In all honesty, yours are the most personally repulsive beliefs I have encountered here on ATS.
Perhaps you should give some thought to the saying "There, but for the grace of God, walk I".

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


No, now you are assuming. I made it quite clear Rome was no Utopia. But with the better laws of the founding fathers, a better republic can be.

As to those who were born into poverty, all I can say is work will set you free. So far it's worked for everyone who got here and was poor just the same. Now why has it not worked recently? Simply. People like you trying to change it made it broken. Now we are all screwed. When it comes to taxes and what not, I say the old way was better.

If you were born poor, work. If you were born rich, work. I really do not have compassion for people who will not work other than those who cannot physically work through no fault of their own but being born that way. I'd say that is quite the opposite of the Eugenics, as they would have killed such people. I say work, and improve yourself. Unless your Genes deny you that ability, you are just lazy in my book and I have no respect for such people, nor compassion.

Originally posted by Steam


You are kidding right??

Do you honestly consider a whopping 5% of the population to be "Elite"????

That is about 16 million people!!!!

Are you telling me that anyone who makes over 250k is conspiring with the billionaire bankers to take over the world???

What type of BS is this??

I would call these people upper middle class but definitely NOT "Elite".

I don't know where YOU live but a salary of 250k isn't really that high here in the suburbs.

Umm...in a million of 300 million plus, a population of 15 million people isnt that much. Someone who makes 250K/year is making at least 7x the average joe. Where I live (major city in upstate NY)
you can live in the "rich suburb"and pay $400,000 for your house, or go out into the "sticks" about a half hour away and get houses for under 50,000 if you dont mind the smell of cow poop.

Its not anyone elses fault that someone who makes 250K/year is barely surviving because they had to buy a 3 million dollar home and just HAD to have that jaguar. As I said most Americans will never own a home or a brand new car.

250K/year is elite, whether you like to believe it or not. When the top salary of the bottom 80% is somewhere around 50K/year, 250K in todays America is ALOT of money.

As I said before, if you dont have the fiscal responsibility to make 250K/year stretch, what right do you have to scream at the government about fiscal responsibility?

DO I think the guys that make 250/k year all get together to plot with the Bilderergers? No, but these people do finance the republican party, who then fight for the economic interests of the top of the pyramid....so there is sort of a "conspiracy" of sorts going on.

Originally posted by Gorman91

As to those who were born into poverty, all I can say is work will set you free.

How fitting that you would use a slogan that is best known for gracing a concentration camp in Nazi Germany.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


Yes. I think it is fitting. Considering there it was a lie, and here it is not.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


My family has that income. We are middle class. We have 1 new car, and 1 used car. We have a 50 year old house on a plot of land big enough to fit a simple 2 family home. We have just enough to send myself and another to college and after that we are screwed.

You see, by the time you actually get to making 250,000 a year, you're probably only going to be doing that for barely 5 years before you retire. that's roughly 1.5 million to retire on. 500,000 of that goes to 2 colleges. The rest goes to sustaining a decent living for the 4-6 years you're kids are at college. Then you sell your house to make up for it and go buy some cheap land to live on on New Hampshire or somewhere.

I am sorry to tell you, but 250,000 a year does not mean you've made that much for your whole life. It means you got there. And probably not for long. That above was without taxes included. Take your uneven tax and shove it. My parents deserve to rest.

Originally posted by Gorman91

Yes. I think it is fitting. Considering there it was a lie, and here it is not.

See this is what I like....Conservatives and Republicans always say "The Left is just using their feelings to guide them!", then when their Nazi beliefs get the sun shined on them, they make a joke or just make broad sweepings statements using their feelings as proof.

So Gorman, can you prove the statement that "Work will set you free in America?". No you cant, because it is some BS slogan that is not meant to "mean anything" but to function as a carrot on the stick to a donkey.

There are people who work hard their whole lives, and the only thing that sets them free is death after a lifetime of cramped arthritic hands and bad backs. And these people are generally taken advantage of....by the top 2%.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

My family has that income. We are middle class. We have 1 new car, and 1 used car. We have a 50 year old house on a plot of land big enough to fit a simple 2 family home. We have just enough to send myself and another to college and after that we are screwed.

You see, by the time you actually get to making 250,000 a year, you're probably only going to be doing that for barely 5 years before you retire. that's roughly 1.5 million to retire on. 500,000 of that goes to 2 colleges. The rest goes to sustaining a decent living for the 4-6 years you're kids are at college. Then you sell your house to make up for it and go buy some cheap land to live on on New Hampshire or somewhere.

I am sorry to tell you, but 250,000 a year does not mean you've made that much for your whole life. It means you got there. And probably not for long. That above was without taxes included. Take your uneven tax and shove it. My parents deserve to rest.

I call big BS. If your parents are making 250K a year, you could still attend a pretty nice school for four years FOR LESS THAN 1 YEAR OF YOUR PARENTS SALARY. EDIT: just saw where he said his college education is costing his parents 500K. Yeh dude, your family sure is "screwed"!

Do you realize that most people HAVE TO PAY OFF THEIR COLLEGE FOR THEIR WHOLE LIVES?

You sound about 19 years old, and your arguments are weak. Please show me the stats where most earning 250K or more "just got there" and "dont stay" for long. You sound like a little kid who has no clue about the real world. Your parents own their own "modest" home, have two cars and enough money to send you to college and make 250K a year, and have "only 1.5 million" to retire on and you WANT MORE? This is American greed right here folks.

Alot of people wish they had "only" 100K to retire on. Most of us WILL NEVER GET TO RETIRE, and you are whining about "only" having 1.5 million....Sheesh your life must be cake kid.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


That's nice. And believe me, if it was in any way relevant to me I would respond. but it's not. Seeing as I am neither republican nor 100% conservative.

However, I think the large percentage of Americans belonging to the middle class speaks volumes as to how wrong you are. It's nice and all to parade like you are right, but you're not. And thus, that is sad for you.

Also, my college is not costing 500k. it is costing half that. And that is because my parents make too much for financial aid. but we are not rich.

Sorry to tell you how wrong you are again, but I'm going to go and say you are also looking at a much smaller bucker than it is.

I honestly do not care about stats. I care about me. And what you say would make my siblings unable to go to college, so I reject it.

The simple fact is most people making that much live on the margin. My dad never went to college. He started working 18 years old and still is. He only started making the "big bucks" a few years before he plans to retire. And yes, his hands are tired and have arthritis. As I plan on too when I am his age. It's simply being old. Most of my childhood was us not spending too much. That is why we have money to send kids to college. Because we did not spend it. This is living on the margin. Putting away and not spending. So that that money supplies us.

You need at least 1 million dollars to get started in the world at the bottom of the middle class. And maybe I sound rich, but 1 million is not a lot of money to me. Once you have a decent house, cheap car, and all the insurance what nots for health, car, house, blah blah blah payed for, that million is pretty much gone.

I was taught that by the time you are about to retire, you need to have at least 1 million for your kids to get started in the world. That does not make you rich. That does not make you on the top of the world. It makes you middle class. money does not correlate to life style. It correlates to money alone.

If you want to tax the real rich more, than tax on how much you spend. Not how much you own. Clearly if you are spending that money it means you can afford to get taxed more. But I prefer the flat tax. Fair enough.

Originally posted by Gorman91
However, I think the large percentage of Americans belonging to the middle class speaks volumes as to how wrong you are. It's nice and all to parade like you are right, but you're not. And thus, that is sad for you.

I see. SO do you have any more stats, or figures, or just more feelings?

I honestly do not care about stats. I care about me. And what you say would make my siblings unable to go to college, so I reject it.

Oh I see. So just more feelings. And negative feelings at that. I see you have not learned to lie completely yet, like your older conservative brethren.

You need at least 1 million dollars to get started in the world at the bottom of the middle class. And maybe I sound rich, but 1 million is not a lot of money to me. Once you have a decent house, cheap car, and all the insurance what nots for health, car, house, blah blah blah payed for, that million is pretty much gone.

I was taught that by the time you are about to retire, you need to have at least 1 million for your kids to get started in the world. That does not make you rich.

Most people in America will NEVER see $1 Million, after paying in their whole lives. And this is what you are "starting" with. And the statement "Once you have a decent house, cheap car, and all the insurance what nots for health, car, house, blah blah blah payed for, that million is pretty much gone." is HILARIOUS. You realize most people in America have to get all that stuff on like 50K/year, right? Jesus, you are really out of touch.

So....all the people arguing that tax cuts should be extended are arguing for this guys lifestyle. He just proves what we have been saying all along. His parents arent going to take their new tax cut and hire anyone, they are going to stick it in the bank, earn interest and retire off it. And then when they die, this guy is going to get it all, because the estate tax does not take effect until 3.5 million. So this guy is insta-millionaire, never had to "work" or "earn" it, it is "old money". This guy couldnt prove my points better if I had made him up, he is the prototype of everything the Republican says does not exist, and never happens.

So the millionaires get to live like this "To me, a million isnt a lot of money"....while we all pay the debt off......niiiiiice.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


Not feelings. My life. If my life is feelings, than I suppose inception was right.

Lie? Nope. Not lying. Love you calling me conservative though. I am nothing. I make my own future.

Yea I do realize that. And most of those people are also in debt. You've become so blind that you see not being in debt as rich. You do realize that debt is something to be avoided, right? That just barley being out of debt is not wealthy, right? See that is why the middle class exists. That is what I am.

My parents would probably use the money to invest in their kids. You do not have to invest in companies. They would not bank it in and retire off it. They would give it to their kids to invest in their future. I think you're the one disconnected. After all, I prove you wrong. my dad did not go to college. I did. It means I will make more than he did faster and be able to invest it.

See that's how work sets you free. And for that matter, why you are not.

I think you claim to know more because you are older. However I think the truth is your generation forgot so much that mine is remembering.

What do social programs, schools, civil services, emergency service, public transportation projects all have in common? They need public tax dollars to keep them going and without them all will fall.

My q is, If the rich don't want to pay their share then why should they continually be allowed to have the largest lobbying bloc in the Congress?

If they want to keep them they should be subjected to incrimental review whereas that if they are not using said breaks to provide jobs then they should lose them plain and simple.

My tax plan in a nutshell :
1. Those making $1,000,000,000 get no tax break ever and must pay a flat 60% tax.
2. Those making more then $1,000,000 - $999,999,999 a year get a 40% flat tax
3. Those making between $250,000 - $999,999 get a 35% tax rate
4. Those making between $100,000 - $249,999 get no increase or decrease.
5. Those making less then $99,999 a year get a tax cut of no less then 35% flat tax,

Any company who outsources jobs or relies on immigrant labour gets all cuts erased. Those who keep their jobs stateside get a tax break and not a tax cut.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


That's not a flat tax.

The best way is just 10% for all. Though I am willing to accept that those SPENDING over a million a year won't hurt with more taxes.

Taxes, if they are not going to be flat, should be based off spending, not earnings.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos

Explanation: Seriously!

Is this what they ment by trickle down eCONomics???

Personal Disclosure:

The US economy seems to be like a bad comic CONvention of cape and masked dastardly villans and cads! Where are these so called super hero's I ask you?

Trickle down economics has never, ever worked. And it has been tried often.

The whole idea of claiming that these tax breaks will somehow stimulate the economy...seems to forget that these breaks for the richest 2% have been in place for the last 10 years...how did that work out for us? Everybody feel the heat from those "job Creating" tax breaks the wealthiest 2% have had over the past few years?

In the 1890's it was called "Horse and Sparrow" economics... 'If you feed the horse enough oats, some will pass through to the road for the sparrows.'" That is about all the stimulas we could hope for from the tax breaks for the wealthiest...Sh&^ left in the road.

The rich keep thier money...every cent..and now more than ever...and if the flow uncomfortably stops they simply ask the Gov. to forcibly take money from the taxpayers and give it to them (Bailouts)

As the wealth of this nation has moved consistently from the lower and middle class to the richest 2% ...the middle class has tried "Coping mechanisms" as it ran out of money to survive...first...put the wives to work, that gave us a little boost in the 70's and 80's and then it ran out...both men and women bust ass together just to pay the mortgage...second strategy...CREDIT...and that bubble just burst and isn't comming back.

Now what? Not sure, but one place to start is to stop the flow of money from the middle class to the richest 2%.

The middle class is on it's last legs with no more tricks in it's bag. No more spouses to enter the workforce...no more credit. That means no more consumers and that will eventually cause the collapse of just not the middle class, but the richest 2%...everyone.

Enough of the BS...no more bailouts and tax breaks for bankers. The middle class needs to get healthy again...without credit..or everyone rich and poor is efed in this country. No one can survive without the middle class consumer. No more wars, no more bailouts, no more breaks for millionaires while everyone else is dying.

reply to post by Gorman91

You know, you actually had me trying to understand what planet you were living on at one point... then you made a few statements that clued me in:

Intelligent is above a A in my book. Pretty simple.

This got me started realizing that you were young and either in high school or college. Of course, later posts revealed it was the latter.

I remember when I was your age. I remember how I thought the world worked on logic and reason. I remember thinking how easy it would be to make everything better, and also thinking that maybe if no one else could see what I saw, perhaps I should be one of the leaders of the country.

I was wrong.

The world does not run solely on logic and reason. It also runs on human desire, human greed, human arrogance, and human ignorance. These are antithetical to logic and reason. When I say "in a perfect world", as I tend to do often, that is what I am referring to... a world which runs on logic and reason.

You are wrong as well, on many counts. You say an 'A' is a good indication of intelligence. How about those who do not get to go to college? Are they then unintelligent according to your logic? How about the guy who gets a snotty teacher? Are they then unintelligent? You are surely aware that the teachers and professors control who gets the grades and who does not. Thankfully, my experience is that the vast majority are fair in their grading, but there are those who are not. I have met a few of them.

This thread should not exist if we go with your definition of relevance.

That is a very defeatist attitude. I will admit that in the minds of those who make the laws the common man does not exist, or at least does not matter. But in my mind I do exist; I do matter. I may not be able to force the lawmakers to change their thinking, but that does not mean I alter mine either. It means we will see who is right and who is not in the long run. I haven't stopped fighting the war for the middle class even if you have decided to pack up and retreat to a more comfortable battlefield.

As to those who were born into poverty, all I can say is work will set you free. So far it's worked for everyone who got here and was poor just the same. Now why has it not worked recently? Simply. People like you trying to change it made it broken. Now we are all screwed. When it comes to taxes and what not, I say the old way was better.

Firstly I started working at age 12, hauling hay and mowing yards. How early did you start? Oh, that's right, you're still in school... nevermind.

When I went to college 25 years or so ago, I also worked a full time job. I was laid off in the local recession then as well, btw, but I started working full-time as an electrician (self-employed, meaning more than 40 hours a week) and also worked part time producing house plans at home, while I continued in school with a full load. Still, the economy was too damaged (we lost 80% of the local jobs in three major plant shutdowns within qa month of each other) and I was finally forced to leave the area, and school, to seek work elsewhere.

I will also say that during that time, I experienced hunger. I went a solid week, 7 days, with nothing to eat while working that schedule and maintaining a 4.0 GPA. Of course, when I found employment and left for it, it was in the middle of a quarter, so that 4.0 dropped... I guess working steady cost me my intelligent standing according to your yardstick.

And yet, here I am unemployed... again. Now considering how I have already worked more in my life than I ever expect you to, can you somehow continue to back up that statement?

My family has that income. We are middle class. We have 1 new car, and 1 used car. We have a 50 year old house on a plot of land big enough to fit a simple 2 family home. We have just enough to send myself and another to college and after that we are screwed.

...

I am sorry to tell you, but 250,000 a year does not mean you've made that much for your whole life. It means you got there. And probably not for long. That above was without taxes included. Take your uneven tax and shove it. My parents deserve to rest.

At my last job I brought home about $40K a year. During that time, my daughter completed a degree at the local college (graduating suma cum laude I might add). How? Because she searched high and low for financial aid and I took care of the rest.

So why don't you help your parents out now that they are need and you are an adult? Why not get a job to go with that school? I did. Why not try for a scholarship... not all are based on income. Why not do odd jobs if nothing else?

Sounds like you are sitting pretty in a catbird's seat with a silver spoon trying to talk down to those who actually have done what you claim is best all these years...

Also, my college is not costing 500k. it is costing half that. And that is because my parents make too much for financial aid. but we are not rich.

$250K for college, from your parents? Really, and here you are telling me that I should work harder? Really?

You may not consider yourself 'rich', but I would bet the vast majority of the country would.

Most of my childhood was us not spending too much. That is why we have money to send kids to college. Because we did not spend it. This is living on the margin.

Wrong.

Living on the margin means writing a check to the power company when the guy comes to pull your meter, and hoping and praying your paycheck will go in before it clears, because if it doesn't, the check will bounce.

Living on the margin means trying to decide it you can afford a birthday party for your child at all, because there might not be enough money to buy groceries for the rest of the week.

Living on the margin means trying to decide which bills you will pay this month and which will have to wait, because there is not enough to go around.

Living on the margin means going to work sick, because they don't offer paid leave and if you miss one day's wages, you won't make this month's rent.

Your family made a decision... I consider it a good one from what little I know... just like everyone does in life. But don't try to equate that decision with people who work more than you do and have to make terrible decisions every day, with drastic consequences. Just don't. Because when you do, you make yourself a hypocrite.

TheRedneck

reply to post by aching_knuckles

So Gorman, can you prove the statement that "Work will set you free in America?". No you cant, because it is some BS slogan that is not meant to "mean anything" but to function as a carrot on the stick to a donkey. There are people who work hard their whole lives, and the only thing that sets them free is death after a lifetime of cramped arthritic hands and bad backs. And these people are generally taken advantage of....by the top 2%.

Great post. Flagged!
You're right. He can't. Furthermore, he is setting up straw men, and putting words in people's mouth. On the other hand, he said he wouldn't support killing the poor, yet, here are his own words on this very thread:

and I for one would be more than happy to see the end of the lower class' existence

Working "hard and getting ahead" might work for those that have the opportunity. HOWEVER, given the actual unemployment rate of 17% to 21.5%. Those people can't GET JOBS, so how can they get ahead? Answer- They CAN'T. They're losing their houses, and everything they have.

Furthermore, Gorman obviously has no idea of how poor the inner schools of this country are. Unless you get a decent education, getting ahead is virtually impossible. The inner cities are crumbling, the rural areas are hurting, and no one, EXCEPT the very wealthy are "getting ahead". 80% of Americans are saying that they are WORSE off than they were 2-3 years ago.

He proves the point that many of us have been trying to make. His family is in the $250,000 and above bracket, and he is looking down on the rest of Americans, and has no idea of what it is like to not know where your next meal is coming from.

Of course, he also makes false assumptions about those he is debating. He's classified me as a liberal who wants to give everything away. Of course, those that know me, realize that I am a conservative Constitutionalist, but one that has compassion for the unfortunate. Most of you that know me personally realize that my wife and I have adopted many children from third world countries, and raised them to give them the opportunity that they never could have had. Furthermore, I was not born into a rich family, but a first generation American family, that had to work 90 hours a week, and had many days when meals consisted of a potato, a few vegetables from our garden, and once a week, a piece of meat.

Gorman, needs to walk a mile in other people's shoes, and perhaps then he'll get off his high horse, and realize that not all poor people are lazy, or not willing to work. There has to be available WORK first.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Yes, and the generation before mine made it quite clear that they got lazy and caved in to those non-logical, non-reasonable desires and faults. I do not, at least most of the time. And I think most generations do not. I am sorry to say this, but the post-60s, pre-90s generation really does have my top apathy awards. They just seem so screwed up all and all. And not only that, but the people who led them at that time, whatever generation they were, failed miserably as well. Some generations are good. Some generations are fail. I for one favor making mine the better one. So perhaps it is seemingly Utopian, but to me it's just common sense. Utopia to me is far more than what I am speaking about. Perhaps the fact that you view what I am saying as a purely logical, reasonable utopia is a compliment. But to me it just shows how far the world has fallen. The fact that you view it as Utopian is both a compliment and a disturbing fallback. The fact is that it is far from any utopia I would want. It's more like a national socialist run nation, minus the SS and all the evils of Hitler.

Anywho, no, those who do not go to college are just as capable of intelligence as me. In fact, I would rather most people did not go to college. I would far more prefer the method of old where you go to work and learn on the spot. The intern/draftsmen/apprentice method seems to me to be a far more realistic way of making your way in the world. College should be for scholarly people who wish to skip maybe 10 years of work for 5 years more of education for a higher paying job. If everyone goes to college, then it defeats the purpose, not to mention it makes everyone in debt and is far too elitist for my liking. If people just went to work right after high-school and learned their skills on the job they wish, it would greatly improve the middle class, and make people actually do what they want to do. Perhaps 1 year of college for mandatory preparation would be nice, but honestly that is all you need. The rest is just harassment on subjects you'll probably never use.

I like the middle class. Keep up your fight for them. As I said, you only really need a procumer class and an administration class. The wealth generated from that is more than enough to give the have nots their rights to food and water and get back up to producing and consuming. Everyone can do something, no matter how small or great the task. If you want to talk about greed, I think this semi-indentured servitude design is actually kind of interesting, so long the people make sure it does not devolve into some sort of modern version of slavery.

I started working on what I am now studying to do when I was wee little 7 or 8. I'm not in any sort of physical labor job market, so I cannot say I've hauled hay. But you are assuming all work is the same, and all work is laborious. I think its safe to say that I will never do any sort of manual labor in my career choice, and I think its safe to say that the manual labor I have done for volunteering places never helped me in any sort of way for what I want to do with my life. Now maybe you think that if you never do manual labor than you never really worked, but there are loads and loads of jobs in the world that do not require manual labor. You CAN work your whole life and never do manual labor. If the brains are what you've got, use them. if the muscles are what you got, use them. So you see, I've been designing and drawing and working creatively since I was a wee tot. And I expect that when I am 40 years old that is exactly what I will be doing still. Never having done a days worth of manual labor in my life. That does not mean I have not worked. It simply means my job does not require that kind of work. Yours clearly does.

Myself? I earned a pretty decent scholarship. And I will get more if needed. Like I said, me and my family live on the derivative. So long we keep doing what we are doing, we will be fine. If I stopped working, we'd be screwed, If my parents retired, we'd be screwed. When the derivative allows, we will make changes.

I do not consider even 1 million rich these days. Most of the people who I know have that much. But we all still live in little middle class 1-2 story homes with 1-2 cars, with 1-4 kids, and living on the derivative. The rich people I know make 5-25 million. They are the ones with big houses, yachts, 5 cars, a second house somewhere, motor bikes, etc etc. They are what I consider rich.

You should know that in America, not all communities are the same. It is sad that for you things suck, but not all people are you. Yet more proof for a flat tax. Some people can afford it, others cannot. Get a low level, 10% of what you make, and that is enough. The government should live on how much I can afford, I should not live by how much they can afford to take.

What you described as living on the margin is clearly not. Clearly you are bellow what you are making as it is unsure if you can make it. This is bellow the margin. Like I said, your generation is so screwed up, in debt, and made of fail you don't even know what wealthy or poor means anymore. You consider that living on the margin. I consider that the signs of a mismanaged life without thinking on the derivative. We are. If we payed more, we would have to change our life style. That is simply unacceptable. And if you don't like it, I cannot honestly care.

What you described is simply not middle class. It is lower class. If the world you were brought up in tells you that is middle class, it's just all the more proof of how messed up the last generation is. I for one am more than happy to grow up in a very logical, common sense generation. If you consider that Utopian, well its really quite sad and shows how far lost your generation is.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


All by their own free will. I know people from those crumbling places. They are quite successful. The reason is simple. They rejected the ways of their failures that were neighbors and worked their way up. They decided to study, use the internet at their library, learn, etc etc. Most of those kids are failures because quite frankly it seems to me that the generation before hand were failures as well. Those who see failure, reject it, and work to rise above it, get further. Failure to see that is simply sad for those people. Sure there is no work, but I think that is because nobody looks at Americans AS workers. I see people making fractions as much as our lower class climbing up the social ladder in nations with fractions of the freedoms we do. That is because they work and know what to avoid. The simple fact is that most of America's workers are not workers. They are people wanting someone to hold their hands and guide their way. Forgive my lack of compassion, but I think I have more respect for a lower class Chinese sweat shop worker than them. I see immigrants within 2 generations of coming here having great success because they chose not to whine, but make their own future.

I think that is why America is collapsing. Failure to desire to make your own future. I make my own future. I take my own life and put it where I want it. I don't whine at difficulty. I conquer it. America is doomed to fall because so few see life that way. Well, you get what you pay for. No effort, no gain.

And I mean, it's quite obvious what the end point of that is. People like you will get angry, revolt, and the country will collapse. And by the time that happens I will be out of here, off to where ever freedom is on the rise and work will set you free. And I'll shed a tear for the fail-tacular nation you'll all make this country. But it certainly will be a forgotten dream. I'll make sure wherever I end up, I'll try my hardest to turn it into the new America with the same rights and freedoms you used to allow here. And when America gets replaced by that next new comer, it will be a sad day, but a day that you made for yourselves. Enjoy the future you make for yourself.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


No..... Welfare is for people who for whatever reason need someone else to support them, letting people keep the money they earned isn't welfare.... Wow.....

Actually why don't you send me a check, Christmas is a little tight this year with my husband being unemployed after being with his company for years, just a bad economy. I am preggers with baby number 5 and we aren't getting gubment assistance (by choice) so why don't YOU send me say a mere 20% of your paycheck (if you have a job)and I'll spend it on extras that my family can't actually afford but want I mean why not? Contact me and I'll give you my PO Box, just drop a check in the mail at the first of the month and then I'll complain you aren't giving enough....

How much do you give to charity? Too bad you can't take flags and stars away...