Astronomers Discover, Image New Planet in Planetary System Very Similar to Our Own

______beforeitsnews/story/300/705/Astronomers_Discover,_Image_New_Planet_in_Planetary_System_Very_Similar_to_Our_Own.html

Guess we found another planet

the interesting thing is


"The origin of these four giant planets remains a puzzle; neither of the two main models of planet formation can account for all four."

pretty neat

be good

Interesting! I think we will find there are MANY systems like this....ours can't be the only one.

especially with 300 sextillion stars out there (a low estimate imo)

be good

reply to post by BadBoYeed


great find...interesting to see what happens

2nd

They apparently found a 'diamond' planet as well.

www.bbc.co.uk...

They say it's a gas giant, but with a liquid carbon core possibly diamond.

Anyway back on topic...

I'm not sure why people make so much fuss over finding planetary systems. I mean if our planet is in one, chances are there are plenty of them.

reply to post by BadBoYeed

Wiki claims that this solar system is 129 light years from us and in the scope of our understanding of the Milky Way that doesn't seem too far away. Well, it may be awhile before we could actually get there but one thing I was wondering is where exactly HR 8799 is. I did a little search and found that it is in the Pegasus constellation.

Here is an image of a star map showing this solar system inside of the great Pegasus square.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c476876bde5b.gif[/atsimg]
Source- Flickr.com

Below is an apparent "to scale" comparison of HR 8799 solar system with our own.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f7ba5150edf7.jpg[/atsimg]
Source- BBC News
ADD: This is an older version and does not show the newly discovered fourth planet.

Here is another site with interesting information on HR 8799.
Gemini Observatory

reply to post by Devino


Nice work...you're hired

be good

reply to post by Devino


Very interesting you were able to find a size comparison, the article told us the distance from us, but it appears to be what we see from your scale solar models the planets must be gas giants, way out of the inhabitable zone for liquid water and life as we know. But it's interesting we see the 'top' view of this system, unless that is conjecture.

Solar systems don't always align with their galactic system's plane, ours doesn't, that's why the Milky Way in the sky is tilted. But that is another story altogether.

"beforeitsnews" has no credibility with me

Originally posted by BadBoYeed
reply to post by Devino

 

Nice work...you're hired

be good

Thank you very much.

reply to post by Illustronic

Personally I never liked the term 'Goldilocks Zone' as it puts speculative limitations on our understanding of our Universe. For instance we are finding signs of liquid water and oxygen on some of the moons around Jupiter and Saturn which makes life there quite possible.

it's interesting we see the 'top' view of this system, unless that is conjecture.

Solar systems don't always align with their galactic system's plane, ours doesn't, that's why the Milky Way in the sky is tilted. But that is another story altogether.

I think we are indeed looking at the North pole of this system, as is apparent from the images I have seen, and is something I also find interesting. Here is an artist's rendering of the solar planes from our system and HR 8799 compared with the plane of the Milky Way.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fe7c0c347c0c.jpg[/atsimg]
If you compare the direction of angular motion using the right hand rule you will see that our solar system is upside down compared with the Milky Way. The Milky Way rotates clockwise from our perspective and nearly everything in our solar system moves in a counter-clockwise motion. Using the right hand rule to measure solar obliquity will yield an angle of 120° (or -60°) to the galactic plane. Here is an illustration I made awhile ago that helps explain what I mean.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c3136968c80e.jpg[/atsimg]
To put this into perspective the planets of HR 8799 are also moving in a counter-clockwise orbit according to the "Before It's News" image. If this is correct then this makes HR 8799 backwards compared to our solar system (both North poles facing each other) and also upside down to the Milky Way. I find all of this very interesting but what it all means is, as you had said, another story altogether.

Upon doing further research into the solar system HR 8799 I have found that in July, 2004 two planets were discovered in orbit around this star. They were named HR 8799b and HR 8799c. Then in July, 2008 a third planet was discovered, HR 8799d and finally this year a fourth planet, HR 8799e.

Here is an article from 2008.

In all the documented pictures, the three objects were found to be orbiting in a counter-clockwise direction around HR8799

CNN.com

The orbital motion of the planets is in an anticlockwise direction and was confirmed via multiple observations dating back to 2004

Wiki
So it appears that we are looking at this solar system from above its North pole as the planets orbit in a CCW direction.

The information from Before It's News.com pertains to the discovery of the fourth planet, i.e. HR 8799e, and seems to be confirmed by other sources.

All four planets orbiting HR 8799 are similar in size, likely between five and seven times the mass of Jupiter. The newly discovered planet orbits HR 8799 more closely than the other three. If it were in orbit around our sun, astronomers say, it would lie between the orbits of Saturn and Uranus.

Science 2.0

HR 8799e is the forth planet orbiting HR 8799. It is a large, red gas giant, and is extremely close to its star. Like most planets in its star system, it is between 7 and 13 times the size of Jupiter, the largest planet in the solar system. No moons have yet been discovered by astronomers, but if the planet is anything like the gas giants in our solar system, it will have a lot.

Wiki

NRC Herzberg Institute of Astrophysics releases image of fourth planet orbiting bright star HR 8799

National Research Council Canada

ADD: Saturn is around 10 AUs from the Sun and takes just under 30 years to make one orbit. Uranus is between 18 and 20 AUs taking 84 years to make one orbit around the Sun. If HR 8799e is comparatively between these two orbital distances then we can conclude that its orbital period is also between 30 and 84 years, perhaps somewhere around 45-55 years. I have a feeling that more planets will be discovered at closer distances to this star, maybe even Earth like planets with similar distances and orbital periods.

reply to post by BadBoYeed


The problem is that they are probably too far away for us to travel to. You would more than likely have to be a baby to leave here and be almost 30 or older when you arrive! We need time travel bad! And not like the Philedelpia Project. I wouldnt want to be part of a hull of anything.

Is this Nibiru/planet X?

Excellent research, Devino. You make terrific contributions to this forum.

Originally posted by Devino
Personally I never liked the term 'Goldilocks Zone' as it puts speculative limitations on our understanding of our Universe. For instance we are finding signs of liquid water and oxygen on some of the moons around Jupiter and Saturn which makes life there quite possible.

I agree in principle, but I feel that the 'Goldilocks Zone' is still an important concept. Although I have a very stong hunch that life is common, and that intelligent life is a probable development in any biosphere - if given enough time - I think that the conditions for a technological civilization (i.e. one that we could potentially communicate with) are much more strict; and are most likely on an 'Earth-like' planet.

To communicate over interstellar distances, a civilization needs to be able to transmit a powerful laser, maser or radio signal. To build such a device, intelligence is not enough; they need fine manipulation (tool-using limbs) and metallugy - which, in turn, requires the ability to make fire.

On Earth, we know of at least four potentially intelligent families (I use the biological term very loosely) of animals: Primates (us, chimps, apes, etc.), pachyderms (elephants), cetacea (dolphins & whales) and mollusks (octopi & squids). Of these, pachyderms and cetacea have large brains, but no fine manipulation (exception? ). Squids & octopi do have the potential for fine manipulation, but they cannot make fire. Any intelligence that evolves in oceans under the ice of a gas giant moon is likely to have the same problem.

So, based on a very limited sample, it looks like aliens that are capable of fine manipulation and want to communicate are going to need water, dry land, and an atmosphere that can support combustion. These things are much more likely in a 'Goldilocks Zone'.

Originally posted by galactictuan
Is this Nibiru/planet X?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cce5c46bf9ed.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Saint Exupery

Hello Saint Exupery,
Thank you for the compliments. I find that sometimes I really enjoy doing certain tasks and this was one of them.

The Goldilocks zone is a concept that originally put restrictions on where we think life could possible form. As of lately this term has expanded greatly yet from its inception it has given us limitations on our understanding and is therefore a poor concept, to say the least, in my opinion.

Our idea of life and even intelligent life is carbon based that uses water (H2O) as a solvent and therefore must exist in the "Habitable zone" as has been said. What about the possibility of life that uses methane as a solvent. The habitable zone for such a theoretical creature surely is different than ours, it would need to be much colder to survive. How about silicon based life, if there is such a thing? Or even better yet, how about arsenic based life?

Many people think that evidence for intelligence is based upon the ability to work with metal and fire. I think in our case this can also be seen as evidence of ignorance. This reminds me of the Dolphins on the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy when they left Earth just before it was going to be destroyed to make a hyperspace bypass.

Just sayin'

reply to post by Devino


I think we're talking about two different things. You're talking about the possibility of life, and I'm talking about communicating with such life over interstellar distances.

I agree with you 100% that the GZ is obsolete for assessing where and how life can form.

My point is that finding life in the outer fringes of our own solar is an extreme engineering challenge, and there is no prospect for finding it around other stars unless it is transmitting signals that are strong enough for us to detect. For aliens to be able to do that - no matter what their chemistry - they need to have the ability to work metal.

reply to post by BadBoYeed


It's funny how these ''astronomers'' come out and mention their findings like it's new. Any normal thinking person would know that we are not the only ones that exist in this vast expanse we call the universe. If you do your probably a blinded religious individual or someone who just does not care to learn more then they already know.

reply to post by Saint Exupery

I am following what you mean, I guess I was getting carried away with outside the box type thinking when it comes to our concept of intelligence.
As far as interstellar communication goes, we will have to do much better than speed of light transmissions. Take HR 8799 for example, think about where we were technologically 130 years ago. We should be able to detect a transmission, if one was sent from there 130 years ago, yet holding a conversation would be difficult.