Everyone please read this... I feel it is very important to remember.

Play this video and answer the following questions.



What would our forefathers do if they were here today?? Is this what they had envisioned for their future generations? Did they not give us rights and amendments to protect us against tyranny? Against enemies both foreign and domestic? Isnt it about time we all take a stand and fight for our home and what is inarguably becoming a police state. In all of these conspiracies that we constantly debate, if there is even one shred of evidence that is TRUE and there are evil people lording over our beautiful country then we need to take a stand. It is clear that there are things bigger than us that are happening and being lied about. This is our land as much as, or even moreso than it is our governments. People shouldnt fear their governments, governments should fear their PEOPLE. WE own this country, not all these monkeys in suits running our country into the ground. So this is my plea. Please do something, no matter how small.... write a letter, email the government... HELL, MARCH ON THE CAPITOL BUILDING IF THATS WHAT YOU FEEL IS RIGHT TO DO. Just do SOMETHING! We are a free country and unless we make changes to it, change will never come. This is our land. Lets take it back for our future generations. For our kids and our kids kids. Bless america... no matter what religion you are... we can use all the help we can get.
-Z-

Dont know..
USA right ? thats a country over to the west right ?

our forefathers would be rolling in their graves about now
1) we have allowed bankers and corporations to make laws
2) we have a fiat money system in place.
3) we are taxed without representation.
on and on and so forth.
>again rolling around in their graves wondering why they wasted their time

Agreed wolfy... we're letting people lord over us and we just need to stop it. Is the answer brute force? Do we all gather together and march towards the white house?? I was thinking a tax strike... if we can get most tax paying middle americans to NOT pay taxes, wont that send a message? If we stop paying them to wreck our country, will they step back and say, "whoa... okay we dont completely control them I guess."



Maybe like this. Imagine how we could change this country.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
our forefathers would be rolling in their graves about now

You laid out some claims that I am not sure you are wholly correct or even know why you stated them. They seem like the atypical response when it comes to how the Founding Fathers would be upset with today.

I do like your use of 'we'...because this is the correct pronoun to use when it comes to the ills of the country in regards to Government.

1) we have allowed bankers and corporations to make laws

Can you specifically point to laws that were enacted outside of Congress, in which Congress did not vote upon it. A bill only has to be introduced by a member of Congress, but does not have to be written by one. You, me, or Exxon Mobil all have the ability to draft a bill.

Now if we look more closely to your statement, we can dig deeper and look under the hood of what you have stated and what I have stated.

We all know that big or small; corporations, small businesses, community leaders, unions, committees, etc lobby representatives and senators for one thing or another. This is a protected Constitutional right under the First Amendment; the right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

What I believe you were alluding towards is the covert urpution that many of the large money holders and corporations undertake is 'buying a bill'. While I do not wholly agree with the process, it still falls to elected officials to present the bill and vote upon the bill. Two houses even, then a president. If it is a shady bill we even get the Judiciary in on the process.

Where you are absolutely right though is the unwritten fourth branch of Government, the People, that is We, have let it all happen.

2) we have a fiat money system in place.

Simply stated and wholly agreed. The system is based upon the faith of those invested in the Dollar (citizens included) that it is worth what ever denomination is printed upon it. Otherwise....it is only worth the paper. Even our coins, are made utilizing a mixture of alloys that are not worth what they state. I am sure the weight of copper within a penny is no where near $.01

3) we are taxed without representation.

This I am really interested in hearing more about. What are we taxed that is not represented? Or is directly tied to point 1 you made?

I am not attacking your positions at all. I am gaining more information. More knowledge to be able to form a better opinion and better discussion.

Originally posted by allprowolfy
our forefathers would be rolling in their graves about now
1) we have allowed bankers and corporations to make laws
2) we have a fiat money system in place.
3) we are taxed without representation.
on and on and so forth.
>again rolling around in their graves wondering why they wasted their time

Our forefathers would rise from their graves with torches and pitchforks and head to D.C.

Bestenemy you are bringing up some valid points, respect. I do, however believe that if the founding fathers WERE here today they would be P.O.'d would you not agree? They founded our country with laws and rules, a lot of which have been broken. We are allowed free speech but say a certain thing and you are in handcuffs, questioned and interrogated as a terrorist. If you try to organize for people to march against political sites, you are also declared a terrorist, can be charged with inciting a riot, will likely be tazered, pepper sprayed, riot gun blasted... I mean come on. They can physically stop us from utilizing our right to overthrow government if we feel we need to. I think it can be argued that they have violated our civil freedoms in more ways than one and in more than one case THEY are infact domestic terrorists.

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by allprowolfy
our forefathers would be rolling in their graves about now
1) we have allowed bankers and corporations to make laws
2) we have a fiat money system in place.
3) we are taxed without representation.
on and on and so forth.
>again rolling around in their graves wondering why they wasted their time

Our forefathers would rise from their graves with torches and pitchforks and head to D.C.

I truly agree that they would. I think they would be outraged and better yet, do you know what would happen if they did?? They would be arrested on terrorist charges, tear gassed, probably attacked by police canines and interrogated, prosecuted, put on a no-fly list and labeled as a "radical extremist".

reply to post by ZyPHeR


I agree completely. It is a reasonable and logical conclusion that a large portion of those that gave birth to the ideals we embrace today would be certainly appalled. Appalled is too light of a word. They would be livid and disgusted at what we allowed this Republic to become.

I do not doubt that notion at all. My reply was an attempt to bring out more of the thinking upon even those three points. Just saying them does us all no good. As they cannot be taken as an axiom.

Originally posted by ZyPHeR

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by allprowolfy
our forefathers would be rolling in their graves about now
1) we have allowed bankers and corporations to make laws
2) we have a fiat money system in place.
3) we are taxed without representation.
on and on and so forth.
>again rolling around in their graves wondering why they wasted their time

Our forefathers would rise from their graves with torches and pitchforks and head to D.C.

I truly agree that they would. I think they would be outraged and better yet, do you know what would happen if they did?? They would be arrested on terrorist charges, tear gassed, probably attacked by police canines and interrogated, prosecuted, put on a no-fly list and labeled as a "radical extremist".

edit on 12/8/2010 by ZyPHeR because: (no reason given)

Prosecuted? No. Sent to Guantanamo sans charges to be held indefinitely, yes.

reply to www.abovetopsecret.com... 823970082397" target="_blank" class="postlink">post by ZyPHeR

What would our forefathers do if they were here today?? Is this what they had envisioned for their future generations? Did they not give us rights and amendments to protect us against tyranny?

No, the Founding Fathers did not give you any rights, and if you carefully read the 9th Amendment that Amendment will support my contention. Rights are not granted by anyone other than your Creator, and by creator I do not mean your parents. One need not hold a belief in God to understand the profound importance of elevating Rights as being granted by a Supreme Being, senior to humanity. If a belief in God is repugnant to a person, then understand Rights as simply being unalienable; that is to say, non-transferable and inherent in all people. Unlike privileges, which are indeed granted by humans, Rights are universal and belong to all people at all times. Privileges are not universal and are grants of authority to do things by permission, and only those who have the permission to do so may do that thing that has been permitted. No one permits Rights. If what you do causes no harm, (outside of self defense, defense of loved ones, or even defense of helpless strangers, and defense of property), then you do that by Right.

A piece of paper will not protect you from tyranny. Tyranny is a disease that infects many, many people, and the surest way to protect oneself from tyranny is through constant vigilance, jealously guarding ones Rights, and zealously protecting those Rights yourself. Even then, as should be self evident, the protection of Rights is not at all easy, and can even be construed as criminal by those governing bodies who have embraced tyranny over freedom.

Isnt it about time we all take a stand and fight for our home and what is inarguably becoming a police state.

It is long past time, and it was always time, even at the time of our Founding Fathers. See the Sedition Acts to better understand how even well intentioned Founding Fathers showed a willingness to sacrifice Rights in favor of secure government.

We must never, ever acquiesce to tyranny in any form, and yet, we do, all of us do, and tragically we most often do for the sake of expedience. For practical purposes we acquiesce to the ever so seemingly sleight incremental intrusions imposed upon us by government. Practicality is useful when it is not dangerous. When it becomes dangerous-as in the surrender of unalienable Rights-it is no longer practical, merely expedient. There is nothing practical about surrendering ones Rights.

This is our land as much as, or even moreso than it is our governments.

All governments, regardless of their political structure, exist by consent of the governed. Those governed by tyranny do so by their consent. In this regard, all land "owned by the government" belongs to the people.

People shouldnt fear their governments, governments should fear their PEOPLE.

It is precisely because We the People in the United States did not fear our government that the incrementalism of invisible tyranny was allowed to flourish. People should at all times fear their government in the same way we should fear scorpions, poisonous snakes and other predators that can, and will if not guarded against, harm individuals in the name of aggregated power.

The Constitution for the United States of America is a profound indictment on humanity. It clearly addresses the reality that people cannot be trusted to govern over others, and certain restraints must be put upon government officials if they are to be allowed to govern over others.

So this is my plea. Please do something, no matter how small.... write a letter, email the government... HELL, MARCH ON THE CAPITOL BUILDING IF THATS WHAT YOU FEEL IS RIGHT TO DO. Just do SOMETHING!

I respectfully submit that writing letters, or emails to the government, and even MARCHING ON THE CAPITOL BUILDING are not the necessary kind of actions that need to be implemented if an individual hopes to protect their freedom. It is never a guarantee that ones freedom will be protected, but the acquiescence of legislative acts that do not function as law, and only under color of law, and acquiescence to the enforcement of these laws is what feeds the beast-that and taxes-and it is imperative that we starve the beast.

Protest is really just a limp wristed way of admitting to helplessness. Do not acquiesce! Non-acquiescence is the character of the truly free. Never acquiesce to tyranny. Refuse to accept legislation as law and understand it is merely evidence of law. If it is law then it is somehow acting to either protect the rights of individuals, or tragically acting to implement justice in the event of an abrogation or derogation of a Right or Rights. If the legislation does not in anyway protect individual Rights then it is not law. Obey the law, not legislation. If legislation is law, it will be self evident. If legislation needs explanation, this is your first clue it is not law.

Amen. It's coming brothers, are we gonna join together when it happens? I can see resistance groups forming and protesting and getting shut down so quickly. It is best for us all to lay low and just get by until more people understand the situation. We would get MOWED down protesting them. and yeah our founding fathers are certainly turning in their graves, but even to you and me bro; because we forget that the conflict is even bigger than US. I think the collapse of the Fed is immanent and war has been going on for 9 years. We really just need our soldiers home, support free speech and boycott corporations that are ruining the world. UNTIL it's time to raise up We can only put up with Fox news, the CIA and the TSA for so long. Especially with them trying to build FEMA camps and all... Fooled the Jews once, Shame on them, Fool us humans again shame on us. This is exactly like Nazi germany before the camps came. If they come for the patriots and we do nothing, They will come for the liberals, Then the communists, and by the time they get to me, everybody else will be gone. Who is gonna fight for me? I. We are that we are, I am that I am. If I died saving one life, or touching one life then it's a hand well played. Because I know we can't escape fate.
Great topic though, If it goes down I'll be with ya. Be easy bro.