When did prayer EVER help you!

I went to auschwitz recently, saw the chambers, bags of prisoners clothing / shoes etc behind the glass doors... and something came to my mind, i read books where the jews would go in praying and singing to God!
To do that, must have had the strongest faith in their God imaginable, to pray to him at death`s door!

Yet what good did it do them? NOTHING!

Think of all the time somebody, a loved one, a friend, has been ill.. and you pray, even if your not religious, in your mind you cry out to a higher power to help the loved one!
Does it ever happen that miraculously the person gets better? rarely! absolutly rarely.. and by that i mean 1 in 10,000 times!

When a massive disaster like indonesia tsunami, haiti, chile etc all happened, when 911 happened, and people prayed.. what did the prayers do? NOTHING! NOTHING!

Did the prayers reverse the damage? did it correct peoples lives? no!

Yes i am well aware of the odd story here and there about somebody whos prayed and miraculously the person has gotten better... but the reason for the person getting better could be anything.

And if it is because of a higher power.. why do 99 per cent of the time we pray for people who are dying, do they not get better? What makes the 1 or 2 people who survive (which you claim God helped them), better than the 99 per cent who dont stand a chance!

Dont get me wrong, i dont believe in coincidences, i believe everything happens for a reason, and yes i believe in a God, a creator of all (even though im one of the MANY who believes that these ancient `gods` from most religions nowadays were nothing more than advanced beings/ets). But this is ridiculous! To say that god needs your prayer like he doesnt have anything better to do when hes running a universe, which is more than likely one of many universes, is ridiculous!

And why would we need to pray to him? is that like sending out an s.o.s? if he was almighty he`d know somebody was in trouble! Oh whats that? he wants us to pray first? oh so if we dont pray he`ll sulk in the corner like a big baby and go `hmmph im not saving them because they didnt pray`?

Come on! its ridiculous! And no, im not an atheist! Please understand that!

But ive lost a gran in the last year who i deeply loved, she was always there for me when i was younger, and even though i prayed many many nights, and so did the family.. nothing happened!
And im sure millions of other people go through the same... pray and pray but nothing happened!

And once again, please dont tel me that youve heard a couple of storys from joe shmoe down the road who prayed for his dog and it got better, because that could be any numerous factors which caused it to heal.

Ps, and please dont play the `we dont ask questions of God` card with me.. thats what made me turn my back on most main stream religions!

Id love to hear your replies!

reply to post by rabbigoldstein


The answer to all your questions is that no matter how many facts are presented to the fanatics, they will just rationalise it away as "God has a plan" or "you just don't see God" and such. Some are gonna come on here anyway, ignore all the points you made, and say how they had a prayer come true, even though you just stated that 99% other prayers are unheeded.

reply to post by Somehumanbeing


He's not a magic 8-ball nor a genie. Its that simple. Plus I think we pissed him off, maybe we're on call waiting.

While in high school I ran a prayer experiment to piss off my mother who could be classified as a evangelical nutcase. I didn't study at all for an upcoming test, only prayed for a week that I would pass and maybe get an A. The results weren't good for the power of prayer to say the least.

reply to post by dementedtheclown


Well to begin with, I believe that if you are going to believe in a religion, you should take all the literary "canon" works of that religion literally. Do not nit-pick bits and pieces you believe are plausible and leave the rest out.

If the bible sais unicorns exists, then you must believe unicorns exist.
If the bible sais god is omnisentient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, then he is.
If the bible sais the world is 4000 years old, then you must believe it is.

So if the bible contains a verse "Ask and ye shall receive" then it must be proven. If it is proven wrong, then damn, he doesn't exist now does he? I prayed to God, in desperation and utmost belief in him when I was younger. Nothing happened. He doesn't exist.

All these denominations of christianity and different interpretations crap are desperate attempts to cling to a belief that is progressively being countered by science. Every passing year there is a different interpretation to make-up for something that science sais other-wise to.

reply to post by rabbigoldstein


Not sure this is the place to ask such a question...even if members do chime in with experiences they or a loved one with prayer may have had I'm sure you will have some other explanation for it. I certainly don't believe it's appropriate to trample on the faiths of others...we believe what we believe because more often than not there is something within the core of us that is pulling a person in that direction..You can say that you without a doubt believe in ufos but although we see some pictures I have not seen proof that aliens actually do exist but a good portion on here do believe that...there are plenty of things out there that are without explanation. There is still a great deal to learn...there are plenty of scientist now who believe in parallel universes with some impressive credentials...Link and there is plenty of funding to find out...Now to me if science and I'm painting with a broad brush here believes in parallel universes why is it difficult to believe in a higher faith. I respectfully ask that you be thoughtful when discussing such topics and be genuine and open to discussion. From my experience on this site most members are in the business of conversion but for interesting and englightening information/conversation with of course some humor.

Not sure what this means? Were you shopping around for a religion?
"Ps, and please dont play the `we dont ask questions of God` card with me.. thats what made me turn my back on most main stream religions!"

Prayer has always brought me clarity.

God is not a vending machine. People who think it works that way have a very simplistic view of prayer. If God creates hardships for us to learn and grow spiritually, why would he let us pray them away?

Prayer is mostly for giving thanks to God, and asking for guidance, fortitude, clarity, etc.

Originally posted by rabbigoldstein

Yet what good did it do them? NOTHING!

They have their own land now. They have money, they get to have babies like rabbits. Israel will become a super power soon, just watch.

Think of all the time somebody, a loved one, a friend, has been ill.. and you pray, even if your not religious, in your mind you cry out to a higher power to help the loved one!
Does it ever happen that miraculously the person gets better? rarely! absolutly rarely.. and by that i mean 1 in 10,000 times!

You want someone to pray and everything miraculously gets better? The truth is not many people have strong faith and when people pray they usually know that God will not answer their prayers. So what good is it to pray if you are already doubting God?

People are meant to die. That is life. The way I see it is this, people are selfish. They only pray to God when they need help. There aren't many people who pray to God to give thanks for a wonderful life, or the ability to walk. People only pray when they are in need.

When a massive disaster like indonesia tsunami, haiti, chile etc all happened, when 911 happened, and people prayed.. what did the prayers do? NOTHING! NOTHING!

Did the prayers reverse the damage? did it correct peoples lives? no!

Suffering is a part of life. Death is a part of life. If no one died the Earth would get overpopulated. This isn't meant to be a heaven.

Yes i am well aware of the odd story here and there about somebody whos prayed and miraculously the person has gotten better... but the reason for the person getting better could be anything.

And if it is because of a higher power.. why do 99 per cent of the time we pray for people who are dying, do they not get better? What makes the 1 or 2 people who survive (which you claim God helped them), better than the 99 per cent who dont stand a chance!

Dont get me wrong, i dont believe in coincidences, i believe everything happens for a reason, and yes i believe in a God, a creator of all (even though im one of the MANY who believes that these ancient `gods` from most religions nowadays were nothing more than advanced beings/ets). But this is ridiculous! To say that god needs your prayer like he doesnt have anything better to do when hes running a universe, which is more than likely one of many universes, is ridiculous!

You just answered your whole thread. Everything happens for a reason!

And why would we need to pray to him? is that like sending out an s.o.s? if he was almighty he`d know somebody was in trouble! Oh whats that? he wants us to pray first? oh so if we dont pray he`ll sulk in the corner like a big baby and go `hmmph im not saving them because they didnt pray`?

God knows what you want and knows what you need. People have a need to always ask and never have a need to give thanks. You don't have to pray no one is forcing you to pray. You pray on your own will in a quite place. I personally pray to give thanks, never ask for anything.

Come on! its ridiculous! And no, im not an atheist! Please understand that!

But ive lost a gran in the last year who i deeply loved, she was always there for me when i was younger, and even though i prayed many many nights, and so did the family.. nothing happened!
And im sure millions of other people go through the same... pray and pray but nothing happened!

I am sorry for your loss. But you being upset at how life works is ridiculous. That is like being upset at lions for killing animals to feed their family. They never think about how the antelope feels!

It is a part of life. People die, good people die, bad people die, we all die! That is nature. Do you wish for your grandma to be alive today? What if she was suffering from arthritis? What if her body aches all the time? Why would you wish the pain that comes with this life on someone who is peacefully resting now? You're selfish!

Millions of people fall on their knees everyday in reverence to one god or another, each of them with a spark of faith burning in their chest. Some of these petitioners are giving thanks, others are asking forgiveness, some are asking for the healing of others, and some...the "selfish" are asking for personal healing.
I was a christian for a long time, and for a long time I believed that I just wasn't in the right church or that I was missing something essential in my search for a relationship with god. I've been through many prayer services and I myself have made many prayers for others, and for myself. I heard so many different responses from different denominations regarding the prayer experience and the expectations of "returns".
Let's consider for a moment...and I'll use a magical number that I'm guessing, that 60% of the population of the US believes in god. That would mean roughly that same percentage would be in the hospitals and homeless shelters. How many prayers do you think they might have uttered, or had spoken on their behalf in regards to their healing? How many prayers were made versus how many miracle healings were realized? How many children are suffering excruciating pain in the burn centers? How many prayers SHOULD it take for god to take action? How many should it take to this all powerful, all loving god before the gnawing hunger in the stomachs of hundreds of thousands of children in the US ALONE subsides? How much effort would it take for an almighty god who spoke for the entire cosmos into existence to materialize a slice of bread? If there IS any sort of god out there, and he has ANY sentiment at ALL toward the human race, he WOULD take action - the very fact of his existence would demand it. It is inconceivable to imagine an all loving, all knowing creator who willfully ignores the pitiful cries of his creation begging for his help, for his mercy, for some acknowledgment of his presence at the very least. He WOULD let us know, he WOULD be able to see our plight, and if he were ANY bit as sympathetic as any of us are (being made in his image) he WOULD make his presence known.
How many of you would not rush to help to save a drowning child? How could you sit back and watch if one of your children were being torn to pieces by dogs? If your child fell into a fire, would you not do everything within your power to save their life? If you answered NO, then why? What is there that could make you not rescue your OWN child, your own flesh and blood, when they were crying out for you...screaming in pain? Is there anything?

There are just some things in life you cannot change. If you find this unacceptable, well...you're in for a rough life. It is unwarranted to complain about the things that you can change, when you do nothing about it. For the things you want to change, make damn sure you give it your best shot.
I do not believe in god, any god for that matter. I had always thought that not believing in god would be a surefire way to lead a life devoid of happiness, hope, love and security. I was wrong. Very wrong.
If prayer were a medication, the pharmaceutical companies would regard it in the same fashion as they do the snake-oil sold way back when. An answered prayer bears very much resemblance to something happening by coincidence.

More times than I can count, RabbiGoldstein. Much contempt as I'm sure it will bring, God's Will is an important element in prayer- "according to Your Will, Lord" and having absolute trust that things will happen for the best & absolute acceptance of the outcome, whatever it is, knowing that it's in your best interests. God being God, He sees things we can't fathom. (The "butterfly effect" is a great example of this)

I'll give you 3 more recent examples concerning the dog in my avatar (2, hers, & another dog's). In 2006, she abruptly developed pneumonia- diagnosed at 11 AM & had a tube in her trachea by 2 AM the next morning. By then, they didn't know *what* was wrong with her. She went to our state of the art emergency & specialty hospital as soon as the specialists got there & was there for 3 days. Mid day on the second day, they decided to take the tube out. She wasn't getting worse, but she wasn't getting better. She was barely getting oxygen. She couldn't even drink without her tongue turning totally blue. I made it till I got out to my car & I freaked. When I went back at 5, she had turned around & came home the next day. I ran into the vet who did the tracheotomy 4 months later & was talking to someone about her & that vet looked at me like I was crazy. He completely expected her to die. If my friend hadn't verified that she was great, I'm not sure he'd have believed me.

Fast forward to 2008. She was diagnosed with a tumor that (it turned out) practically filled her pelvis. I had taken her in for a dental & what had alerted us was a smaller lesion further up by her ribs. They thought she had epithelial mesothelioma based on the histology. We were looking at a few months, if we were lucky. I was stronger this time, but still devastated. She was still so young for an Eskie & she is my heart dog.
Right about this time, a fellow rescuer sent out an email called "Our Christmas Miracle". They had a young boy- a Shepherd mix street dog, who had an untreatable liver issue that was killing him. All they could do was keep him comfortable with meds & as long as his quality of life was decent, let him live whatever time he had. A lady had shown up at one of their adoption events & since he wasn't "adoptable", she offered to sponsor him. Apparently, this gal has extremely strong faith (this wasn't the last time she got mixed up with a sick animal who defied expectations). They took him in for a much needed dental & his bloodwork was totally normal. She adopted him & he's doing great today- like it never even happened.
I *needed* to hear this. It was 2 weeks before we could see the vet who took care of our girl in 06 & a month before he could remove the tumor. By the time he saw her, the first, much smaller, tumor was gone. When he got the results back (*another* 2 weeks!), it was BENIGN. This was a huuuge tumor. He took out 7.5 cm x 3 cm & it took a dacron patch to close the wound. We had to confine her to keep her from jumping on the couch barely a week later. (disclaimer: I do not necessarily believe in "faith healing", but who knows?)

I have, maybe, half dozen other people's stories; some of which involve autoimmune anemia & almost-always- fatal blood disorders that also (happily) baffle their vets. I have 1 other unexplainable experience with one of my other dogs, but I fear this is TMI already.

Here's the deal. Unintended consequences. We don't have any idea of the long term consequences of what we ask God for. He won't "give" you something that will ultimately harm you.
Faith matters (what you BELIEVE will almost always play out. We manifest most of what happens to us- often even with God. It isn't just a belief in God that involves faith & prayer). If you are scared or hurting or whatever & you don't think (or fear that) you aren't "strong enough" to pray for your wishes, find someone who is & ask them to pray for you. It works. I don't think my own prayers saved my girl, only helped. That doesn't stop me from praying for others.

To answer the question in the title: Every day.

There are many types of prayer...I believe the deepest form calls for a relenquishing of one's own will and an opening of oneself to with the divine will. In other words, you abandon your own will and humbly offer to do the will of the divine. This involves surrender of everything you think you want or need and an attempt (insofar as is achievable) to bow before the divine. This type of prayer at its most profound would clearly rule out praying "for" anything this-worldly ("please give me a new car, etc.) and its benefits would be entirely inner and spiritual.

reply to post by rabbigoldstein


Maybe they have been praying the wrong way....

www.youtube.com...

This video may help.

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by dementedtheclown

 

Well to begin with, I believe that if you are going to believe in a religion, you should take all the literary "canon" works of that religion literally. Do not nit-pick bits and pieces you believe are plausible and leave the rest out.

If the bible sais unicorns exists, then you must believe unicorns exist.
If the bible sais god is omnisentient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, then he is.
If the bible sais the world is 4000 years old, then you must believe it is.

So if the bible contains a verse "Ask and ye shall receive" then it must be proven. If it is proven wrong, then damn, he doesn't exist now does he? I prayed to God, in desperation and utmost belief in him when I was younger. Nothing happened. He doesn't exist.

All these denominations of christianity and different interpretations crap are desperate attempts to cling to a belief that is progressively being countered by science. Every passing year there is a different interpretation to make-up for something that science sais other-wise to.

edit on 7-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

Who says the bibles right? Its Mistranslations Of Interpretations Of Visions. I can pick and choose all I want, it's my beliefs. We pissed off god before, why not now? Ask and receive, could ask him for a toyota, and get toy yoda. lol It's the thought that counts.

reply to post by dementedtheclown


To add to that, the bible has a record of being edited throughout its history. It is unreliable, like that game you might have played as a child where you sit in a line or circle, whisper a phrase or ear to the person next to you, and that person does the same. By the time it reaches its destination it is changed. They edited the bible because they thought some words of christ were "blasphemous" how ridiculous is that? I'm agreeing with you.

I suggested to someone before; if you wanna find God, if you want to believe in him/her/it, do it on your own. Do not let yourself be influenced by man's filth, such as the bible. Doing the aforementioned is like worshipping a deity or deities through the writing on the back of a milk carton. Create your own religion for yourself, using our own observations and deductions.

When did prayer ever helped me..

When I was sincere.

reply to post by rabbigoldstein

Ps, and please dont play the `we dont ask questions of God` card with me.. thats what made me turn my back on most main stream religions!

"I prayed and nothing happened"

Actually, something did happen. YOU PRAYED. Your intention however was for NOTHING to happen. It's very much like looking for something with your eyes closed. Prayer is a part of spirituality. You believe in LOVE, yet it is not tangible. You cannot pray to God expecting Him to 'magically' alleviate your spiteful doubts or expectations.

Prayer should be reserved for praising the Lord and for those things that weigh heavily on your heart, not your mind.

God is not a religion. Christ never advertised one. Your spirituality is between you and God is NOT mitigated by a third party. As far as questioning God goes... question with your heart, not your mind.

Isaiah 55:9
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts"

"Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."

I prayed for an answer to my question and I got it. I prayed for understanding and I got it. I prayed for wisdom and I got it. I never pray to recieve something, or to achieve something, or for others to become physically better, because I know those things are beyond my control. I only pray for spiritual growth.

reply to post by Wang Tang


That just goes to show it is a psychological thing. Praying for spiritual growth is the same as some guy meditating for the same purpose.

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

That just goes to show it is a psychological thing. Praying for spiritual growth is the same as some guy meditating for the same purpose.

Are you saying praying and meditating are the same thing, just that one of them involves praying to a superior being and one of them does not? I realize the goals of praying and meditating are essentially the same, and the end result is essentially the same, so where is the difference?

My personal belief is that it's because if God exists, then I doubt highly that he micromanages the world. I feel like he's probably got better things to do than micromanage human affairs.