Did Bush "steal" the election?

[edit on 6-7-2004 by spngsambigpants]

For those who think the candidate with the majority of the popular vote should win the election:

Who won the 2000 election?

Bush won with the majority vote. 5 is more than 4, so Bush won the majority vote. Well, majority of the supreme court votes. But the peoples majority? Gore won. But Florida committed crimes, felonies, and corruption to make sure Bush won. "Oh your name is John Smitty and are black and a midget? Well, in 1998 a John Smith who was white and 6'3 committed a felony, you are not allowed to vote." This did happen! If your name was the same or was close to that of a "suspected" felon then you were banned from voting. Well, if you were a registered democrat and had the same/similar name to that of a "suspected" felon. Thousands of people were turned away because of this.

There were also many instances in St. Louis of dogs voting in that race. Remember the fight to keep the polls open later there? Democrats fought to keep the polls open an extra hour there and failed. As for disenfranchised voters, who tried to get the absentee ballots to be voided? Al Gore. I guess that was his little thank you to the service men and women serving overseas.

I will again be voting for George Bush. I shudder to think what would have happened to this nation after September 11 with a President Gore.

[edit on 7-7-2004 by Wudman]

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Just because someone is anti-corruption doesn't mean they saw F9/11. There is a post about that in another forum.

Anyways, he didn't steal the election. Bush isn't smart enough. Cheney and Bush Sr. and the other republicans, well, they didn't go through college with white powder on their noses and daddy paying bribes. They actually are smart as hell and probably all have a high cognitive ability. Hell, bet they are in the 2-3 range of the standard deviation of the cognitive ability mean.

But yes, Jeb/Florida broke many rules. Also, alot of military votes in Florida "disappeared" and guess who the military was supporting? And they also blocked voting places to many blacks and other minorities. Then the poll closed thing they did which is oh so f*cking wrong. If you in line and polls close, you still allowed to vote. Then the name bs they did. Also, say all you brought with you was your drivers liscense and they ask for proof of citizenship. How many of you out there bring your birth certificate, high school diplomas, medical records, whatever, that the people were asking for to prove you were a citizen? I sure as hell don't bring all them with me to go voting. So in Florida if you didn't bring an entire filing cabinet of documents proving you were a citizen you weren't allowed to vote in certain areas.

Republicans will get what is coming to them. Just watch and laugh. Like a criminal getting hit by a bus after robbing a bank. Karma is a funny funny man.

The military votes were decidedly republican. In fact, the Clinton Administration's handling of the 2000 election was farcical, the absentee ballots for military members were sent in bulk mail so that they arrived too late for the absentee military members to vote. There's a standard procedure for mailing out absentee ballots and it was not followed for the 2000 election. Just remove that part from your post and I'll read the rest of it.

[edit on 7-7-2004 by Undomiel]

I did a speech on this subject last semester at school, and will post the entire thing, if the Mod's don't mind. It's fairly long.

To summarize, Katherine Harris, former Secretary of the State of Florida, asked ChoicePoint (the company in charge of "cleaning" the voting records) to alter their programing so that the match between the voter on the roll only had to be 85%. The default was 98%. This meant that a man named Thomas L. Jhonson could be unadmitted to vote if someone named John L. Thomas was on the rolls.

FLorida is one of the few states in the union that does not let former felons vote. However, this is supposed to only be enforced if the person committed the felony in Florida. However, tons of people were kept from voting even though they had committed their crimes in other states. As of the writing of my speech, the legislative branch in Florida had asked Jeb Bush's office 4 times to stop this, saying it was, "...unconstitutional."

One woman was informed she couldn't vote because her name closely matched a woman who had committed a felony. However, this woman knew she had committed no crime since she was a Hillsborough County judge.

8,000 people from Texas were almost left off the voter rolls, until it was found that the worst crime any of them had committed was the same one their Governer, George W. Bush was guilty of: D.U.I.

For more on all of this, read The Best Democracy Money Can Buy
by Greg Palast, or simply search for him on Google. I'm sure you'll be able to find a few of his stories.

Observations from the front row.

The Fl election.
As a member of the media from West Palm (then) who had a front row seat in covering the election...a few observations.

I watched as one dem, one rep, and one neutral person took stacks of ballots at each table...(im guessing 20+tables of these review groups) under constant live video and armed personal security survailance...looked at EACH CARD...one at a time until there was a consensus of the 3 as to what the vote was on the card, and what was an invalid card...according to defined criteria for how to interpret the card. (agreed to by both parties before the recounting)

I watched them recount the millions of votes THREE TIMES in this manner...including reviewing ones deemed invalid!!! They did this 24 hrs a day for 3 days. this was done on a local level, using VOLUNTEERS, not state employees or paid people. these local recounts were then subbmitted to the Supv of elections.

The Suprv of elections had to BY LAW submitt the vote totals BY A CERTAIN TIME to have ANY of them count. She did. But this info came from thousands of local volunteers of both parties, not some faceless gov office.

Indeed some of the ballots were not countable because the 3 person panel found them to be double punched (one example) or otherwise had some discrepancy that violated the guidelines for usabillity.

Politicians have known for DECADES that there has NEVER BEEN a vote where EVERY ballot counted....there was always a margin of error like +/-3%....They often times counted on this margin in their campaing calculations. did you the avg citizen even think that there was an error rate in counting votes ANYWHERE?
We citizens all had blinders on there.

After watching the citizens that worked hard, under tons of preassure recount and recount and recount and recount the votes...I feel certain that Gov Bush, nor Suprv of elections or any politician was able to steal anything.

Much of the problem was with using a butterfly layout for the ballot that was confusing on the antiquated equipment.
Bottom line, noone stole anything. The process (ballot layout, old equipment that lent to confusion/innacuracies vor voters, and good old human error/judgments) was prone to discrepancies to start.

And for your consumption:

Military Didn't Get Ballots, Plan Class-Action Suit

David M. Bresnahan
Thursday, Nov. 16, 2000
SAN ANTONIO, Texas � Attorneys for disenfranchised military personnel plan to ask a judge to either let them vote late or allow them to refuse to pay taxes for the next four years. Large numbers of military personnel have complained that they did not receive absentee ballots in time to vote, and now they are taking action in court.
"What we would like to do is ask for injunctive relief and ask for these people to have their ballots flown to them immediately and allow them to vote and be counted in this election, regardless of what state they�re in," attorney Philip E. Jones told NewsMax.com in a phone interview.

"It�s not a principle of Democrat or Republican. It�s the principle of the right to vote. "In the alternative, if the judge doesn�t allow that, we�re going to ask for injunctive relief in the form of allowing these people not to have to pay their taxes for four years because they�ve been disenfranchised from the political system by denying them their right to vote for the next four years. That�s taxation without representation," said Jones.

Jones said he would file the class action suit on Monday, initiated by three members of the military serving in Japan. Two are from Florida and one is from Oklahoma.

He is inviting other members of the military to join in the suit, which he is handling without cost to participants. He said he was eager to document as many cases as possible of members of the military who were denied their right to vote.

"It is our position that denial of the right to vote constitutes not only a violation of one's fundamental constitutional rights, but taxation without representation," Jones explained.

"We�re getting in reports and allegations of widespread cases of this," said Jones.

Florida Servicemen Were Shipped Out Before Election

He is investigating complaints that a large number of military were suddenly, and without advance warning, sent on a training mission the day before the election. The large contingent was stationed in Florida and did not request absentee ballots because they were supposed to be in Florida on Election Day. The sudden orders prevented them from voting.

"Of course, that can probably be explained off as �needs of the Army, or Air Force,� or whatever the case may be, for training purposes. But it certainly looks suspicious,� said Jones.

He said many other complaints by servicemen and servicewomen were being received. Parents are also sending in reports of requesting absentee ballots for a son or daughter in uniform and the ballots not being received. Jones is asking these people to complete a sworn affidavit and fax it to his office as soon as possible.

Was there an organized effort to prevent the military from voting?

"It certainly seems like there�s been a lot of service members who did not get their ballots worldwide who requested them," said Jones.

The case will be filed in federal court on Monday, and Jones is calling for military around the world to notify him if they have been prevented from voting so he can demonstrate to the court the full extent of the problem.

There is no expense for members of the military to participate in the legal action because Jones is doing the work pro bono through Campbell & Jones, Attorneys at Law, San Antonio.

"We need all parties to this suit to fax us a notarized statement stating they applied for their ballot through the appropriate channel and did not receive the ballot in time to vote, or did not receive it at all.

"If any parties saved a certified receipt showing when they requested their ballot, it will be very helpful. Also, if there are any military orderly room records annotating service members' requests for ballots, we could use copies of those, or sworn affidavits from the appropriate supervisor," Jones explained.

Affidavits may be faxed to Jones' office at (210) 227-4229, 24 hours a day. Jones can be reached at (210) 224-1923. E-mail: [email protected].

www.newsmax.com...

----------------------------------------

This is not the first time nor the last time, I've read about this, from different sources. I've read several accounts of military members complaining that either their absentee ballot never arrived, or it arrived too late because it was sent bulk mail.


And here's a listing of some military members complaining:


Following are the most recent letters we've received that we feel worthy of sharing...

1) My husband is active-duty Navy, stationed on a ship in Norfolk, VA. This is the first election cycle that he can recall, where the voting liaison officer did NOT canvass the ship inquiring as to whom needed an absentee ballot. He didn't even know the name of the voting liaison on this ship of 1200 people. Home of record is PA, therefore he did not get to vote. Yes, he would have voted for Bush.

2) Yes, we got our absentee ballot in time. Yes, we are Florida military residence residing in CA. Yes, we voted for Bush. Yes, we mailed it on time.

3) No, I am not military but am ex-military living as a civilian in Germany. According to the lady at the Board of Elections in Gaston Co., NC, I should have gotten my ballot in time for the election. I am still waiting for it. I would have voted for G.W. Bush. If I were from Florida, I would be absolutely hopping mad!

4) My name is GM3 Jason Kraus, I did indeed get cheated out of voting to get that democrap out of office. I received my absentee ballot four days after the election. I am currently in the Gulf right now but my usual duty station is Pearl Harbor. My home state is Michigan. Feel free to use my name on anything that might stop this in the future.

5) I am a member of the US Air Force stationed at Osan AB in Korea. I arrived here on 5 Sep 00 and applied for an absentee ballot from the state of Florida, county of Brevard on the 7th of Sept. I was assured that the application was sent off in plenty of time to have my vote count. Today is 13 November and to date I still have not received my ballot! Coincidence??!! I think NOT!

6) Although I am no longer a member of the military, I am residing overseas. I sent in the proper form to request an absentee ballot from New York State (NYC). I received a notice of registration (I was already a registered voter, having voted for G. Bush in 1992), and notice that of my voting station instead of the absentee ballot that I had requested. I realize that the NY vote is not in question, however, it seems to me that this is part of a larger pattern of denying ballots to those of us overseas.


The Gore-Lieberman campaign's efforts to throw out military ballots in the 2000 presidential election generated national outrage for weeks. Efforts to suppress the military vote, however, are nothing new for the Clinton-Gore administration. The Department of Defense tried last year to remove polling places from military bases, and helped to defeat legislation to counter those efforts in the waning days of the 106th Congress.
In a Nov. 22 article titled "Disenfranchising the Military," Wall Street Journal editorial columnist John Fund reported that in 1999 the office of Defense Secretary William S. Cohen ordered the removal of polling places from DoD facilities. When National Guard and Army Reserve offices prepared to comply, the secretaries of state in 17 states filed protests. The Senate acted quickly to attach language to last year's Defense Appropriations Bill to stop the Pentagon from evicting polling places during the 2000 election. And to prevent a recurrence in the future, House Administration Committee Chairman Rep. Bill Thomas, R-Calif., sponsored legislation to ensure that the voting booths will remain on military bases.

The Clinton-Gore Defense Department, however, actively opposed the Thomas bill, H.R. 5174. Citing a law enacted during the Civil War, DoD General Counsel Douglas Dworkin wrote in an Oct. 10 letter to Rep. Thomas that "Placement of voting sites on military installations in which 'troops or armed men' are likely to come into close contact with voters is fundamentally incompatible with the concept of maintaining separation between the military and politics."

www.newsmax.com...


-------------

Long story short, these types of behaviors I find to be highly suspect. What were they thinking?

CazMedia, I am from Florida as well, and at the time of the 2000 Election, I was living in Orlando. I, too saw all of the media coverage, and I am not discounting that a lot was done during the recounts. I am speaking of the things done by the State Administration to jeopardize the election. In total, somewhere in the neighborhood of 60,000 votes were either not counted or not allowed because of alleged felony charges that, after being looked into, were found to be fraudulent. Of these, about 90% were Democrats, and about 92% were black. Black, Democratic votes that would have gone for Gore.

Official counts differ, but according to all of them Bush "won" the election in Florida by 528-535 votes. Do the math.

Well, why should a military man or woman want to protect your right to vote if you don't give a rats hiney if they get the right to vote? Why would anyone want to be in the military? We would be supporting a government (and apparently a few citizens) that think we shouldn't be allowed to vote or it's okay if we don't get to vote cause it's a republican vote. How very strange. I find that just too weird to comprehend. These men and women go out and risk their lives, work hard, pay their taxes, obey more laws and rules than most people can possibly imagine, become human guinea pigs in war time, and they aren't given the right to vote?



[edit on 7-7-2004 by Undomiel]

Of course I care if they vote. The outcome of the election makes no difference to me, as long as everyone who should be able to vote, is able to vote. I was simply bringing up the things mentioned in Mr. Palast's book. Unfortunately, I am not yet educated on what you brought up, but I will do some research and see what I can find.

Here is a link to the US Commission on Human Rights report on the florida election.

www.usccr.gov...

It says among other things,

The report does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters. Moreover, even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred.

It also says,

The causes include the following: (1) a general failure of leadership from those with responsibility for ensuring elections are properly planned and executed; (2) inadequate resources for voter education, training of poll workers, and for Election Day trouble-shooting and problem solving; (3) inferior voting equipment and/or ballot design; (4) failure to anticipate and account for the expected high volumes of voters, including inexperienced voters; (5) a poorly designed and even more poorly executed purge system; and (6) a resource allocation system that often left poorer counties, which often were counties with the highest percentage of black voters, adversely affected.

Please note reaosn (1). This is where i see most of the finger pointing yet the report concludes that this lack of leadership is more like a vacume than a concerted effort to affect the election...the state super of elections, correctly states that the locals in charge of the precincts are responsible for the activities there, yet some of these local workers did not get adaquate training, tools or support from above.

NOTE: This federal investigation by the US Commission on Human Rights in NO way shape or form says anything about willful, deliberate, manipulations of anything, by any officials, that would indicate that someone STOLE the election. If anything, it MAY hint at the leadershiop in the elections offices was doing too little, not too much.

Well then here's one place you can read on it, the Wall Street Journal:

www.opinionjournal.com...

Originally posted by CazMedia
Here is a link to the US Commission on Human Rights report on the florida election.

www.usccr.gov...

It says among other things,

The report does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters. Moreover, even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred.

It also says,

The causes include the following: (1) a general failure of leadership from those with responsibility for ensuring elections are properly planned and executed; (2) inadequate resources for voter education, training of poll workers, and for Election Day trouble-shooting and problem solving; (3) inferior voting equipment and/or ballot design; (4) failure to anticipate and account for the expected high volumes of voters, including inexperienced voters; (5) a poorly designed and even more poorly executed purge system; and (6) a resource allocation system that often left poorer counties, which often were counties with the highest percentage of black voters, adversely affected.

Please note reaosn (1). This is where i see most of the finger pointing yet the report concludes that this lack of leadership is more like a vacume than a concerted effort to affect the election...the state super of elections, correctly states that the locals in charge of the precincts are responsible for the activities there, yet some of these local workers did not get adaquate training, tools or support from above.

NOTE: This federal investigation by the US Commission on Human Rights in NO way shape or form says anything about willful, deliberate, manipulations of anything, by any officials, that would indicate that someone STOLE the election. If anything, it MAY hint at the leadershiop in the elections offices was doing too little, not too much.

I feel sorry that so many black people's votes were not counted. I wonder if this has been a problem historically for Florida? What about past elections? Is this just an isolated incident? Is it only a problem in Florida and nowhere else? Another oddity.

According to Mr. Palast's book, the reason it was such a big deal was because Jeb Bush was Governor. Has it happened before? Well, Palast was able to jump on the trail before it cooled down, and got a lot of information that way. Looking back through other elections would probably be a little harder, since the trail has cooled off. Also, the amount of media attention in Florida helped him to find people who were willing to come foward with information, and otherwise may not have been so forthcoming.

Here is the election totals that put Bush winning the POPULAR vote, after the recounts by 537 votes. This resulted in him getting the states electoral votes.

www.infoplease.com...

Pisky mis-states,

But the peoples majority? Gore won. But Florida committed crimes, felonies, and corruption to make sure Bush won.

Pisky, could you please be more careful with slanderous allegations of crimes and corruption, as well as mis-quoting facts to support your assertions against the President or the State of Florida?

Undomiel states,

I feel sorry that so many black people's votes were not counted.

I do as well, but this was deemed (thru human rights comm) unintentional and a result of using an OUTSIDE of the gov source to compile and verify this felony non voters info, which had a error of 14%!!! This combined with the facts that blacks are incarcerated at higher rates than other races, well you can see where this list of felons would reflect the prison population and have a high # of blacks on it.

The fact that the state was purging its voter logs was fine in and of itself, it would be expected to ensure your voter reccords were up to date and in compliance. The fact that noone verified this proceedures acuracy or implementation BEFORE they tried to use this seems like incompetance from the elections office. (The states supr of elections at the time was a cemocrat)