Afghanistan 'friendly fire ' may have killed soldier

Afghanistan 'friendly fire ' may have killed soldier

www.bbc.co.uk

"Friendly fire" may have killed a British soldier in Afghanistan, the Ministry of Defence says.

The soldier from 3rd Battalion Parachute Regiment was shot in Nad Ali, Helmand province, on Sunday

Officials said an investigation had been launched after first reports had indicated that an attack on an insurgent position by a US aircraft may have been the cause.

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Here we go again, those trigger happy American forces cocking up the mission resulting in another "friendly" death.

This is getting ridiculous, the enemy can just sit back and laugh as the US does their job for them.

It needs to stop, there needs to be better communication between US troops. It's happening too often. The question is, where does the problem lie, lack of training? sheer incompetence? Commanders not doing their jobs correctly? or just firing and not caring who gets hurt?

This is not an excuse to fire insults at the US in general, just the unreliability of some of its troops.

DO THE JOB RIGHT OR MOVE OVER AND LET SOMEONE WHO CAN DO IT DO IT!

www.bbc.co.uk
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Originally posted by woogleuk

Afghanistan 'friendly fire (US)' may have killed soldier (UK)

Its isnt the first time and it certainly wont be the last

Unfortunately this is another sad side of combat.

Hasn't always been the US at fault either, i'm afraid to say us Brits have a knack for it too.

Plus its good to remember that those co-ordinates for air attacks get called in from somewhere, human error plays a big part sometimes. In all fairness it must be a nightmare trying to be spot on with a bomb that destroys anything near it, when you have so many troops nearby.

So i do wonder sometimes if its a case of the pilot being negligent, or troops not being far enough away from the drop site? I appreciate thats easier said than done though.

My thoughts are with the soldier, his colleagues and family.

CX.

reply to post by TedHodgson


Thats my point, when does it stop? I know its war, and it happens, every nation on earth is more than likely guilty of it, but the US armed forces do it all too often. Look here en.wikipedia.org... and compare how many times the US have been responsible (in modern combat) for friendly fire when compared to other nations, it's almost criminal!

reply to post by CX


I know CX, and its always sad when it happens, but still, the US seem to do it on a regular basis, when compared to other forces.

Shoot first and answer question later.

reply to post by woogleuk


This must happen alot. I have never been in military, but come on we know what humans are like. Uk and usa forces may not always get on cough cough. We all know what humans are really like.

Funny how this pilot will just walk away, no reprimands and will probably even be given a medal. However, should we accidentally slot a yank, they would be screaming blue murder and demanding answers. #ing useless scummy yanks.

reply to post by allthegoodusernamestaken


I appreciate your input, thanks, and your right for the most part, but please dude, keep the insults down, this is not an US bashing thread, its criticising their armed forces capabilities in a combat situation.

We and the Canadians lost more troops to US "friendly fire" incidents than to Iraqi forces during Desert Storm.
It's ridiculous to see that no lessons seem to have been learned yet.

In regards to the US having the "high percentage" of these incidents than others in the theater, as well as the most casualties i would say its because they are the most engaged in combat. Simply put, there are more of them, so the probability of mistakes getting made than those of anyone else are higher. Not to say it isn't incompetence or lack of training. It very well could be but take a look at this, plenty of dickups for the UK as well.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by woogleuk
It needs to stop, there needs to be better communication between US troops. It's happening too often. The question is, where does the problem lie, lack of training? sheer incompetence? Commanders not doing their jobs correctly? or just firing and not caring who gets hurt?

How about, "Better communications between US and UK troops", Gus. That's usually where the problem lies.

Originally posted by woogleuk
This is not an excuse to fire insults at the US in general, just the unreliability of some of its troops.

And are you 100% sure that the Brit wasn't in the place he was suppose to be?

Originally posted by allthegoodusernamestaken
Funny how this pilot will just walk away, no reprimands and will probably even be given a medal. However, should we accidentally slot a yank, they would be screaming blue murder and demanding answers. #ing useless scummy yanks.

"#ing useless scummy yanks". Why, now that's something nice to read. What a douche-nozzle.

And if I remember correctly, the UK was "screaming blue murder and demanding answers" when that Brit AFV got schwacked in the first Gulf War by USAF A-10s. The pilots got their asses nailed to the floorboards for that.

Originally posted by woogleuk


Here we go again, those trigger happy American forces cocking up the mission resulting in another "friendly" death.

This is seriously pathetic. Should I come up with some examples of Brits being killed by friendly British fire? Americans are not trigger happy (at least not in Afghanistan), but such incidents unfortunately do occur. This is war, stop moaning.

reply to post by LwSiX


And we have a winner!

Unfortunately, the brain-trusts here on ATS don't see it.

Comms is usually the main reason of friendly fire incidents. We can't talk to them, they can't talk to us. Sometimes, US forces have problems talking to each other. It sucks, it happens, you try to learn from the errors, but there's always people willing to make new mistakes to learn from.

There's even a wiki page about friendly fire incidents.

Here you go:

Falklands war

1982 British Army Gazelle friendly fire incident - The HMS Cardiff shot down a British (UK) Gazelle in the Falkland Islands. Killing 4 British solders.

Companies A and C of the 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment, British Army (UK) engaged each other in an hour-long firefight in the Falkland Islands involving heavy weapons and artillery strikes. At least eight UK casualties.

June 2nd a 'friendly fire' incident took place between the SAS and the Special Boat Squadron (SBS). An SBS patrol had apparently strayed into the SAS patrol's designated area and were mistaken for Argentine forces. A brief firefight was initiated during which one of the SBS patrol, Sergeant Ian Hunt, was killed[34]

and more recent:

A USAF F-15 called in to support British ground forces in Afghanistan dropped a bomb on those forces due to incorrect coordinates given to the pilot by a British Forward Air Controller. 3 privates of the 1st Battalion, the Royal Anglian Regiment, were killed and two others were severely injured. The British Forward Air Controller is now facing manslaughter charges.

British soldiers in operations in Helmand Province, Afghanistan, fired Javelin anti-tank missiles at Danish soldiers from The Royal Life Guards, killing two.[42] It is also confirmed from Danish forces that the British fired a total of 6-8 heat-seeking Javelin missiles, over a 1½ hour period and only after the attack was completed did they realize that the missiles were British, based upon the fragments found after the incident.[43]

A British Military Police officer was shot dead by a fellow British soldier while on patrol.[45]

Nine British soldiers from the 2nd Battalion the Parachute Regiment were injured after being fired upon by British
Army Apache Helicopter while on patrol in Afghanistan July 9, 2008 [2]

LCpl Ford, from Zulu Company of 45 Commando Royal Marines, died after receiving a gunshot wound in Afghanistan on January 15, 2007, which was later found to be due to friendly fire. The final inquest has ruled he died from NATO rounds from a fellow Royal Marine machine gun. The report added there was no "negligence" by the gunman, who had made a "momentary error of judgment".[3] [4]

An Australian soldier was killed in Afghanistan while serving along side British troops. During an inquest, evidence has been given to suggest this was friendly fire, as the bullets came from a British type machine gun. This entry is work in progress[46]




We haven't even got the Operation Iraqi freedom covered. Anyhow, calling the kettle black

War is a b&tch

edit on 6-12-2010 by Mdv2 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Mdv2


OK, in that case.........

# In the Tarnak Farm incident of April 18, 2002, four Canadian soldiers were killed and eight others injured when U.S. Air National Guard Major Harry Schmidt, dropped a laser-guided 500 lb (230 kg) bomb from his F-16 jet fighter on the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry regiment which was conducting a night firing exercise near Kandahar. Schmidt was charged with negligent manslaughter, aggravated assault, and dereliction of duty. He was found guilty of the latter charge, was fined nearly $5,700 in pay and was reprimanded. During testimony Schmidt blamed the incident on his use of "go pills" (authorized mild stimulants), combined with the 'fog of war'.[37] The Canadian dead received US medals for "bravery", but no apology.

# On 5 December 2006, an F/A-18C on a Close Air Support mission in Helmand Province, Afghanistan, mistakenly attacked a trench where British Royal Marines were dug-in during a 10-hour battle with Taliban fighters, killing one Royal Marine.[38]

# Pat Tillman, a former famous American football player, was shot by American fire in April 2004. The subsequent cover-up and untruths told regarding his death provoke a bigger outrage than the actual incident. An Army Special Operations Command investigation was conducted by Brigadier General Jones and the U.S. Department of Defense concluded that Pat Tillman's death was due to friendly fire aggravated by the intensity of the firefight. A more thorough investigation concluded that no hostile forces were involved in the firefight and that two allied groups fired on each other in confusion after a nearby explosive device was detonated.

# Operation Medusa (2006): 1 - Two U.S. A-10 Thunderbolts accidentally strafed NATO forces in southern Afghanistan, killing Canadian Private Mark Anthony Graham.

Of two helicopters called in to support operations by the British Grenadier Guards and Afghan National Army forces in Helmand, the British Westland WAH-64 Apache engaged enemy forces, while the accompanying American AH-64D Apache opened fire on the Grenadiers and Afghan troops.[44]

# In the Battle of Nasiriyah, an American force of AAV's and infantry were misidentified as an Iraqi armored column by two U.S. Air Force A-10s who carried out a few bombing and strafing runs on them. Six U.S. Marines were killed as a result.

# American aircraft attacked a friendly Kurdish & U.S. Special Forces convoy, killing 15. BBC translator Kamaran Abdurazaq Muhamed was killed and BBC reporter Tom Giles and World Affairs Editor John Simpson were injured. The incident was filmed.[48]

# An American Patriot missile downed a F/A-18C Block 46 Hornet 164974 of VFA-195 50 mi (80 km) from Karbala, Iraq, killing the pilot Lieutenant Nathan Dennis White (U.S. Navy). This was the result of the missile design flaw in identifying hostile aircraft.[49]

# An American Patriot missile downed a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A ZG710 "D" of No. 13 Squadron RAF killing the pilot and navigator.

# 190th Fighter Squadron/Blues and Royals friendly fire incident - March 28, 2003. A pair of American A-10s from the 190th attacked four British armoured reconnaissance vehicles of the Blues and Royals, killing one and injuring five.

# An American airstrike killed eight Kurdish Iraqi soldiers. Kurdish officials advised US helicopters hit the men who were guarding a branch of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) in Mosul. The US military said the attack was launched after soldiers identified armed men in a bunker near a building reportedly used for bomb-making, and that American troops called for the men to put down their weapons in Arabic and Kurdish before launching the strike.[50]

# American soldier Mario Lozano killed an Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari and is suspected of wounding Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena in Baghdad. Sgrena had been kidnapped and subsequently rescued by Calipari; however, it is claimed that the car they were escaping in failed to stop at an American checkpoint, and U.S. soldiers opened fire. This claim has been later denied by video proof that the car was respecting speed limits and proceeding with front lights turned on. The shooting commenced well before 50 meters, in contrast with what Lozano and other marines testified.[51]

# A Bulgarian patrol operating southeast of Diwaniya in southern Iraq received heavy fire from the direction of a U.S. Army communications facility 165 yd (151 m) away after firing warning shots to stop an Iraqi civilian car. Junior Sergeant Gardi Gardev was killed.

and plenty more where they came from (The recent British hostage, the story from the opening post, etc etc) and don't tell me it's because the US forces are more engaged, thats a pretty weak excuse, no offense.

Yes, all sides make mistakes, the point is, the US make more, a lot more, and they may just be mistakes, but could they have been avoided with proper training and better communication?

It's a pretty weak argument from a massively weak minded nation of "people". Every offence intended.
Second line.

Originally posted by woogleuk
and plenty more where they came from, and don't tell me it's because the US forces are more engaged, thats a pretty weak excuse, no offense.

And why is that a weak excuse? The more engagements you are involved in, the higher the chance of such incidents. If the Brits are involved in 10 firefights a day while the Americans are involved in 100, the chance of having multiple friendly fire incidents occurring on the US side is significantly higher, not?

reply to post by woogleuk


What is your problem? I haven't heard a blue on blue case in a very very long time. In fact I can't even remember when the last incident occurred. Why are you acting like the U.S. have been killing British forces every week? Bad stuff happens in war, get over it. It was an unfortunate accident, I highly doubt the pilot was on a mission to strafe British troops.