First Amendment supporters assaulted for objecting to prayer in state senate!

reply to post by ownbestenemy


It is simpler and more effective to have no prayer. But rather to have a moment for people to reflect, pray, ect..

You can't include everyone with something like that, and to only select a single group is to invite problems that should not plague the assembly of a government. It's not church it's their senate. They should not have been condoning a single religion in this prayer because we are a secular nation.

reply to post by BigTimeCheater

Each and every government agent who laid a hand on the camera person and the first amendment supporter belongs in prison.

I would be more inclined first to lock away their Nazi masters that hide behind a fish.

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me".


"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. "

reply to post by Frogs


Too bad that it was only a clear video of how they removed this protester. My personal intrest was how they without any reason at all attacked the cameraman.

reply to post by Miraj


The structure of Government established by the Constitution is secular. The Nation is far from it.

Look, I know my arguments probably ring a nerve with some and the knee-jerk reaction must be because I am a Christian Right Winger or some other label. Far from the truth.

Illustrated points and highlights though:

The title is saying "First Amendment supporters...". If they were truly supporters of the First Amendment they would realize that the person delivering the prayer is exercising their First Amendment.

People here are probably thinking they are on the right side of the argument when they claim that the First Amendment prohibits persons from engaging in prayer of any religious type in a State or Federal building, yet they are calling for the censure of that speech. Seems a bit paradoxical and hypocritical. This is why I say you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Congress (Federal that is) cannot make any law for or against religion. They are prohibited. This does not mean that States cannot limit such activities (See 10th Amendment). If a particular state wishes to exclude the traditional practice then put it to the People. Once it passes (or not) allow it to pass the muster of the Justice. That is how the system of Laws works.

Contrary to what the protester thinks, being a dolt and shouting down the clergyman and disrupting the proceedings did not advance his case or hopes that the State of Hawaii will ever put such legislation up for vote.

Specifically your point is 'it is easier' to exclude all prayer. Who is it easier for? Those that now get to oppress and violate another persons First Amendment rights to exercise it freely? j

Originally posted by Night Star
What the heck is the big deal???

the big deal was the fact that somebody
in the audience was made to hear a prayer
they didn't want to hear.

So what about those people in the chambers who
wanted to pray? What happened to their 1st Amendment
rights ??? If u don't want to hear it, then leave
and you will not be offended or close your ears.

But I highly suspect these 2 were working together
to get this footage. Conspiracy to record a prayer.

reply to post by boondock-saint


EDIT TO ADD: I misread your post. So it really isn't directed towards you, but anyone else that thinks people were forced to hear the prayer.

Who was forced to hear the prayer? Everyone in that room knows what is on the agenda. They could opt out if they wish not to hear the prayer. Everyone there was there upon their own free will to stay or leave or not engage in the prayer.

This is not a captive audience.

If you want to hear a situation that is, I have an example that I experienced.

While serving in the military, we had a Commander's Call. This particular commander happened to be a devout Christian. Overall good guy. I had and have no problem with his faith.

As we pilled into the auditorium to hear for the CC, we were greeted with Christian themed music. Afterwards we were subjected to a Christian themed TV show. This is were I do draw the line. The audience is captive (think military and then a trainee standing up and leaving in the middle in protest.) It was the only time I ever used the Military Equal Opportunity office.

The difference between the two is if Senators object to the invocation, why has it not been brought up? Why haven't they presented either a voter referendum or drafted legislation to ban or limit the invocation during the session?

reply to post by BigTimeCheater


don't mess with Jesus. if you don't want to pray, you don't have too, no one is forcing you. but if the senators want to pray together then it's their right.

if you can't tolerate a 45 second prayer asking for God's blessing then you should see an exorcist.

you should be happy your state leaders are asking for God's guidance in doing the right thing for it's people.

would you rather they be like bush and ask the illuminati at the next bilderberg group meeting on how you should be governed.

reply to post by BigTimeCheater


I guess that all speech is free unless you are talking about religion then of coarse its not free.
I didn't see the prob with the prayer and that first amendment guy is not very consistent on his message.

I don't think that guy should have been roughed up either. If he had to be escorted out ,ok fine.

Originally posted by randomname
reply to post by BigTimeCheater

 

don't mess with Jesus. if you don't want to pray, you don't have too, no one is forcing you. but if the senators want to pray together then it's their right.

if you can't tolerate a 45 second prayer asking for God's blessing then you should see an exorcist.

you should be happy your state leaders are asking for God's guidance in doing the right thing for it's people.

would you rather they be like bush and ask the illuminati at the next bilderberg group meeting on how you should be governed.

edit on 6-12-2010 by randomname because: (no reason given)

If those senators want to pray together, they are more than free to do so outside of their official government meeting place.

Think they would allow a satanist to lead them in prayer? Of course not. By only selecting religions they are ok with, they are by default establishing a religion in their congressional chamber.

A blatant violation of the first amendment.

As was said before, religion has absolutely no place in government. None.