12,000-year-old mine found in Chile

Usually when early civilizations went to great lengths to get at iron ore, it was for the purpose of using the ore to smelt iron.

Not painting faces or pictures.

reply to post by dyllels

I was wondering if anybody knew what they used the iron-oxide in religious ceremonies for? The article states they used it to dye clothes and in religious ceremonies, but what for exactly? Face-painting, I assume?

When archeologists don't know what something is, instead of saying "I don't know what it is or what it was for" they say "It must have been for religious purposes" not unlike the "god of the gaps" thing , sometimes scientists can be equally as retarded as religionists.

I asked in my previous post "why not thermite production" ?

Originally posted by butcherguy
Usually when early civilizations went to great lengths to get at iron ore, it was for the purpose of using the ore to smelt iron.

Not painting faces or pictures.

As I understand it iron oxide is not iron ore but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong I just looked on wiki and know very little.

59 flags in just over a page.

Just can not over emphasize the importance of this discovery.

Great find & thanks for sharing

Bump

I'm not familiar with thermite but I will investigate further and see what I can find. Sounds interesting.

As far as I know, a simple air-wood fire would not reach a temperature great enough in order to smelt iron from the rocks. Am I mistaken? I, also, am not too familiar with the chemistry involved. Maybe somebody with a suitable background in this area can clarify these discrepancies?

And to answer an earlier post, this topic is interesting because of how much we don't know about our past as early humans. And for that reason I personally find topics like these intriguing.

Originally posted by tim3lord
im not clued up with ancient history. someone explain why this is so amazing apart from the fact that this proved humans or some intelligent entity was mining these caves all that time ago. i mean what do the experts say homonids were doing this far back in time?

Well if you read the article you would discover that the oldest up until now, was 2500 years ago... now tack on 9500 years to that...

Originally posted by whatisanameanyway

12,000-year-old mine found in Chile

www.abc.net.au

Archaeologists from the University of Chile have discovered a 12,000-year-old iron oxide mine in the north of the country.

Researchers say it is the oldest mine discovered in all the Americas.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is just one more reason to consider the fact that the 'ancients' weren't so ancient after all.

Civilization on the planet earth has experienced several 'trials', of which our current situation is only the latest.

The previous 'versions' have been, what I like to call "Trial and Error". They are buried, literally and figuratively, by history. Those that are 'in-the-know', are shut-up or being made to shut-up rergarding the facts by TPB.

There are too many results from studies coming forward that our predecesors were much more in the know about things that, as regular 21st century citizens, we are totally ignorant.

What does this tell you? This is what it tells me...

We have had multiple "Versions" of "Civilization" on planet earth. Previous versions have been 'erased' and have been re-started (several times over), in order to remove impurities.

Let me ask you a question... Is our CURRENT 'civilization' pure or otherwise?

I'll answer,,, We are NOT pure, we will never be pure. Therefore we will be the study of our ancestory.

Several tens of thousands of years from now, our ancestors (if any exist) will be looking through the historical records (once again, if any exist) and trying to put together whether or not we actually existed and what brought us to our end.

The conclusion will be the same; we brought ourselves to an end. When civilization re-arises, we will re-study, re-find, and do it all again.

In essence, we (as humans) are doomed to repeat history on this rock we call earth, until a intervening force makes itself present to us,

Your thoughts?

Originally posted by butcherguy
Usually when early civilizations went to great lengths to get at iron ore, it was for the purpose of using the ore to smelt iron.

Not painting faces or pictures.

But why did it take us so long to get back to the Iron age? Why go through stone, bronze, etc?

Thermite? You mean to say... Neanderthals did 9/11?!

Anyway -- this is an amazing find, and while it does suggest that humans were more advanced in various places than generally accepted, we shouldn't take it too far. Just because people knew how to mine doesn't mean they knew how to make weapons. It's well known that hematite and other iron oxides have been used as cosmetics and dyes. Further, I think some of you are underestimating the amount of decoration civilizations do -- they could have gone through a whole lot of iron oxide just doing it.

Would love to see some pictures of that mine. Anybody found some already?

I think it's funny when anthropologists are so amazed upon discovering ancient peoples mined the earth for anything. Our ancient ancestors were not stupid. They were very dependent upon, and mindful of all the resources available from the earth. They were in tune with their environment in terms of just what it could provide for them on a level that we have trouble understanding. That's not to say they did not make some of the same mistakes we make, like over populating an area beyond it's ability to support them, etc. Just that we have trouble relating to living very close to nature. We live lives that are very insulated from the earth in it's natural state. We have made it possible to live in a completely synthetic environment, if we choose. Our ancients just made use of what presented itself, and did what ever it took to get it if it was useful. If you found something sticking out of the earth, and you discovered it had usefulness, then you went and dug out some more, and you kept on digging as long as you kept on getting what you needed there. No big revelation here. There are signs of ancient mining ops all over the world, like the ancient copper mines of the great lakes region of North America. Our ancestors were sharp folks. They have been underestimated by arrogant people of late, kinda like how teenagers think that their elders are stupid, and that their youth somehow makes them superior. Yeah. Same thing.

This sure does sound interesting, I wonder where you can learn more about it? Seems to me it could help to possibly tie a lot of loose ends up perhaps.

Originally posted by The Djin

Originally posted by butcherguy
Usually when early civilizations went to great lengths to get at iron ore, it was for the purpose of using the ore to smelt iron.

Not painting faces or pictures.

As I understand it iron oxide is not iron ore but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong I just looked on wiki and know very little.

The Wiki link for Iron ore describes iron ore of consisting mostly of 'iron oxide'.

Wiki iron ore

reply to post by dyllels


A common wood fire isnt hot enough to melt iron ore , a common wood fire ranges from around 500 - 1000 degrees centigrade. The melting point for iron ore is 1538 degrees centigrade.
Even then with charcoal , it only burns at 1100 dedgrees centigrade.

So without the proper smelting blast furnace they wouldnt have been able to melt the iron ore, however if they knew how to make thermite , then they maybe could have used the thermite to melt the iron .
They would have had to have known the exact ratio for thermite , which is iron oxide and aluminium shavings, I cant remember the exact ratio.
Then they would need a heat source hot enough to ignite the thermite , usually magnesium , but these are indeed alot of if's

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by butcherguy
Usually when early civilizations went to great lengths to get at iron ore, it was for the purpose of using the ore to smelt iron.

Not painting faces or pictures.

But why did it take us so long to get back to the Iron age? Why go through stone, bronze, etc?

I don't know.

Before they found the 'ice man' in the glacier in upper Tyrol, mainstream historians said that a man 5,000 years ago would not have known what bronze was, yet the ice man had a bronze ax with him when he died over 5,000 years ago.

Originally posted by tim3lord
im not clued up with ancient history. someone explain why this is so amazing apart from the fact that this proved humans or some intelligent entity was mining these caves all that time ago. i mean what do the experts say homonids were doing this far back in time?

Tim,

I think that the reason why this find is so interesting is that the purpose and use of iron oxide is not something that man, especially 12,000 years ago, would have a practical use for. First of all, there are several types of iron oxide, but the most common form is what you would normally refer to as "rust".

The article says that it was used for religious ceremony's and dying cloth. It seems to me, at first, that there would be more efficient ways for people that long ago, to dye material without going through the hassle of mining iron oxide. Without knowing the area and other resources they might have had available around them, at that time, I can't say for sure.

Then the article said that they could have used iron oxide for religious ceremonies? OK, fine, I guess. However, I can tell you that some forms of iron oxide are also used in the manufacturing of mangets as well as electronics (including circuit boards) and, as mentioned earlier in this thread, can also be used to create thermite. Thermite is a material that will spark and burn when ignited. Think of the sparklers we used as kids on the fourth of July.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense why the people would need or even want to mine this material that long ago. I hope this helps.

Anyway, great find. Kudos to the OP.

Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by dyllels

 

A common wood fire isnt hot enough to melt iron ore , a common wood fire ranges from around 500 - 1000 degrees centigrade. The melting point for iron ore is 1538 degrees centigrade.
Even then with charcoal , it only burns at 1100 dedgrees centigrade.

So without the proper smelting blast furnace they wouldnt have been able to melt the iron ore, however if they knew how to make thermite , then they maybe could have used the thermite to melt the iron .
They would have had to have known the exact ratio for thermite , which is iron oxide and aluminium shavings, I cant remember the exact ratio.
Then they would need a heat source hot enough to ignite the thermite , usually magnesium , but these are indeed alot of if's

The metal was first produced in 1825 (in an impure form) by Danish physicist and chemist Hans Christian Ørsted.

Source

Aluminum was not isolated as a metal in it's pure form until 1825. According to 'accepted' science.

Who knows?

Originally posted by billybobh3
Several tens of thousands of years from now, our ancestors (if any exist) will be looking through the historical records (once again, if any exist) and trying to put together whether or not we actually existed and what brought us to our end.

Actually, several tens of thousands of years from now they will have little evidence of us and will theorize that we were primitive hunter gatherers who had yet mastered much...

reply to post by billybobh3


You got it right my friend, the proverbial "nail on the head"

Not very many people realize this, and even less that will believe it....The only part I have to add to your post is this; This present period is the "end" of the periods of the earth, as far as when intervention will come, the intervention is coming this time, this "7th" period of time, and after this time, the earth will be cleansed and become a star, a firmament in the heavens. All "earths" have their cycles, their designated periods for time, they will be just as you stated, started and ended many many times, till all the cycles designated for that "earth" are fulfilled....Great Great thoughts, and you are a wise individual, don't get all haughty about that though, there is much more to learn, indeed, learning and increasing in knowledge is the only way to advance, we will never know it all, there will always be more to learn....Exciting isn't it??

Originally posted by MensaDude

Originally posted by tim3lord
im not clued up with ancient history. someone explain why this is so amazing apart from the fact that this proved humans or some intelligent entity was mining these caves all that time ago. i mean what do the experts say homonids were doing this far back in time?

Tim,

I think that the reason why this find is so interesting is that the purpose and use of iron oxide is not something that man, especially 12,000 years ago, would have a practical use for. First of all, there are several types of iron oxide, but the most common form is what you would normally refer to as "rust".

The article says that it was used for religious ceremony's and dying cloth. It seems to me, at first, that there would be more efficient ways for people that long ago, to dye material without going through the hassle of mining iron oxide. Without knowing the area and other resources they might have had available around them, at that time, I can't say for sure.

You're simply flat out wrong about this. Hematite was used all over for dyes, cosmetics, etc. The Egyptians left a pretty solid record of their use of it, even going so far as to use iron dust as a trap in a tomb. Hematite was a high use dye ingredient.