Universal Truth

The Ultimate Truth of the Universe is that there is not truth in the universe. Everything is relative and perceived. Simple things such as temperature or time are all relative. Is it hot out today? It really depends on if your definition of hot is determined by the surface of the sun or the atmosphere of Pluto. What time is it? The answer to this question totally depends on where you are when it is asked. Any answer is only a value given meaning by our society and has no actual reflection on when you are. Time doesn’t exist. We all struggle every day to give our lives meaning. Through our jobs our friends or our family, the story lines of what is important are defined by daily activities and the expectation of society. But in the end what do we accomplish?

Analogy: Video Games. I personally am an avid video game player. I have been playing one online computer game for a few years. I have developed some digital friendships over the years. The person that I represent in the game is one of the most formidable characters in my digital world. I have amassed untold fortunes and have some of the best possessions available in game. I have multiple achievements to my name and am well known and reputable with my video game peers. So to recap in my digital world the character I represent is wealthy, well known and reputable, and throughout his short time there accomplished. Now as my fiance would say…” So what, it doesn’t really exist. Eventually you will quit playing the game and what has all the effort truly gained you?” This is the point I guess I am trying to make with this article.

Billions of people on this planet living out their lives amassing possessions, achievements, and renown and I would ask to what ends? We all have about 100 years in this game. In the end no matter what your beliefs there are only a few outcomes.

1. We die and do to the machinations of a benevolent god we go onward to experience eternity strumming harps in the fluffy white beyond.
2. We die and do to the machinations of a vengeful god we go onward to spend eternity suffering in a quite unpleasant alternative to the fluffy white beyond.
3. We die and cease to exist as a conscious being.
4. We die and are reborn to play the game again.

No matter your religious or philosophical beliefs, I really can’t see any alternatives to these four. While the details may vary, this is really it. And to that end I ask what am I doing about it? What are you doing about it? What are we as a society doing about it? Why do we continue the rat race? Why do we stay in the game?

How about, we stay in the game because we dont know its a game. i was watching some of the bashar channelings last night that made a lot of sense to me. He said that life was actually meaningless, as you cannot put a meaning to anything because as you have so rightly said there are no definitive truths, things have the meaning you give to them. Perhaps the meaning of life is to remember who we are and realise that 3d physical is not who we actually are, maybe its to find the spark of God inside us and remember that were him. However if this is so, then its a damned hard test, because the percentage of people on this planet who have 'remembered' is tiny.

this is what charles fort terms as quazi -exsistance. where there is no actually basis for anything, no universal denominator to make any further definiteness from.

a exceptionally complex topic.I am still struggling to form a post from the vast amount of information that is contained in his book ... Help!

funbox

So Math doesn't count as a universal truth?
And what about the law of cause and effect?

Lalala.

Originally posted by incarnating
So Math doesn't count as a universal truth?
And what about the law of cause and effect?

Lalala.

*insane dribble on

i would say that maths is a human conceived tool for measuring these apparent separations.
cause and effect again our human perception of the passing of events.human perception and reasoning , could not ever formulate any absolute truths in my opinion.
what the laws outside of human perception are, well, beyond human perception. if there are any such rules or laws
how far does separation go before there are no units or a single unit , a unit that can be defiantly said to be something , of which cannot be separated any more.. sounds like a twisted jok , the Russian doll effect

*insane dribble off

funbox

Good evening wisintel. May Peace be upon you.

Originally posted by wisintel
The Ultimate Truth of the Universe is that there is not truth in the universe. Everything is relative and perceived.

I understood Relativity as explained by Albert Einstein, but I only recently understood Relativity in all things. Our emotions, our desires, our beliefs, our understandings, and our truths are all relative also. Understanding this really helps me to empathize with my fellow humans.

"No matter your religious or philosophical beliefs, I really can’t see any alternatives to these four."

I agree on those 4 points, but I understand a fifth.

5. We die and due to the machinations of The Law of Conservation of Energy/Mass we go onward into infinity, experiencing infinity, in infinite ways.

Allow me to explain. Fats, nutrients, vitamins, coumpounds, elements consist our body, right? Where did these structures originally come from? The sun's light? The water we drink? The air we breath? The foods we eat? And before that? Where did the structures come from to cause a vegetable to grow, or a cow to become edible?

It's an endless cycle. The compounds and elements that are now a part of my body were once the foods we cultivate, the poisons we manufacture, etc. I release compounds and elements with each breath I exhale, each tear I cry, every drop of blood that flows from my wounds, each time I use the restroom, when hair or skin cells shed from my body. Then when I die... will not this entire body decompose, becoming gases, compounds, and elements? Will not this entire body become parts of existence? The gases released from this body will one day float through the air... join with the clouds... absorb into some leaf... breathed in by some animal. My body will be food for animals, food for plants... once again become dirt... earth!

Even these thoughts of mine were and are immortal in infinity. What is a thought? A thought is formed by electrical and chemical neurological signaling in the brain. Chemicals, electric energy... Law of Conservation of Energy/Mass says energy/mass is neither created nor destroyed, only exchanged and/or converted.

The energy and mass of my body may very well become a chemical or electrical neurological signal in the mind of another sentient being. I will become a thought. I will become consciousness. I will become the entity that consciously thought the thought.

Use this logic, trace it backwards through time. All came from the same source, all are comprised of the same original structures. These atoms in my physical body... they are the same atoms that were present before our sun was born, before the Earth took shape. These atoms, this energy... they were always there. After I die, they will still be here. The atoms in me are Alpha and Omega, no? On an atomic and subatomic level I am immortal. Everything before me and after me are immortal.

I once took a three day seminar called The Landmark Forum. In it, there was a Forum Leader and a large group of about 160 people, who would come up to the microphone for a variety of conversations. They basically gave us a variety of paradigms or frames of reference, while revealing the fundamental trap we are in as subjective observers. On the third day, all this work, which was designed to generate a type of breakdown in our filtering, value judgements, and conceptualizations, including the games we play.. came to a head, resulting in a collapse of the ego-self, leaving us with NOTHING, nada, zilch! The final conclusion, the inescapable conclusion, was that we are nothing but meaning making machines, and that life is absurd and meaningless, and that it's absurd and meaningless that it's absurd and meaningless. The object of this "game" they were playing, was to bring us to the space of nothing, and the unconditioned gorund of being. It was a very interesting experience, especially when it's something being shared with 160 other people.

I'm a fairly smart cookie, and I smelled a lie. I "got" the nothingness they were talking about, what I think of as "the end of time" (been there a few times on my own), but something just wasn't right, and it did not resonate with what I know is true ie: that there's a purpose, and a meaning and significance to life, or, it simply would not be here to begin with! So I put up my hand, and was invited to the front of "the class", and there I tried to offer my protest. Unfortunately I started with the word "but", so the forum leader made some hay out of that, almost mocking me by saying "but but but". I got brave, and said - it's a lie, life is not meaningless and absurd, or we would not be here, that we are here implies a meaning, a purpose, something significant, and personally I am very grateful to be here. I went on to indicate that we really DO reside on a planet circling a star, within a vast cosmos, etc. and that these phenomenon are an occurance of life made FOR life, for our enjoyment. And then it hit me, that in this space of nothing, there is love, as a motivator, and so I looked out at the people and exclaimed "I love people". The forum leader attempted to put me back in place by suggesting that this was just my meaning making machine assigning meaning where there is none to be had, but I KNEW I was right and that he was full of it in this regard.

Later, after it ended, people, many many people from the seminar, came up to me and congratulated me for my courage, and agreed with me, and numerous people also said that they knew that I was a Christian, even though I said nothing of God or Jesus or anything like that. They just knew and they thanked me for taking a stand there in the space of nothing to say NO - it's meaningful and significant by virtue of it's and our own existence, and love is the reason, and therefore the cause.

I am certainly not the first person to arrive at this conclusion when faced with the apparent absurd meaninglessness of existence. Sages and mystics down through the ages, they all have understood the same thing.

My friends, it's a family affair, and love is the reason for existence, and by virtue of our inclusion in life, we are loved by a creator God, whoever and whatever that may be. We're in it, we're part of it, for a reason, and it is highly significant, not meaningless or absurd at all. Do not buy the very last lie.

Regards,

NAM

accidential double post

"Why do we continue the rat race? Why do we stay in the game?"

Because of Relativity, we can not know, see, imagine, or comprehend what the game is. We only know experience based on relativity at a given moment.

Does one individual atom in my body understand the topic of discussion in this thread? Does that single atom understand it's role in the game? Does it comprehend our role in our game, let alone its role in its game? How about a blood cell, does it know its game and our game?

That one atom does not comprehend what one complete human conscious can comprehend because of Relativity. The atom and the cell "just do what they are meant to do", so the truth is we should just do what we were meant to do. What is it we are meant to do? Only you can answer that because it's relative

I've said before how it is funny how people who say online video games are a waste of time fail to see how their own real-life rat-race is little different and just as fleeting as a video game. I don't mean to poke fun and it's really an irrelevant issue (but it does point out dysfunction in those who are quick to judge others), but they always start it by giving people who do no harm and would rather play a video game than watch TV a hard time. And they waste just as much time watching TV as those who play video games (Everyone needs downtime and everyone has their own way of getting it, bottom line). The truth is though, regardless of the rat race(s) and how we all accuse everyone else of wasting their time.. life is fragile and there are so many things that are out of our control.

With that said, I would say there are more than 4 possibilities for the afterlife. Probably more possibilities than we can even think of, and I think humanity has come up with a lot by now. Probably more like 12 major ones, but really I think the possibilities go as far as imagination itself.

Life is the ultimate opportunity, to participate, in something.. some worthy cause, however big or small, motivated by love as the catalyst, to create something, anything, that is worthy of us, and which resonates with our own heart's innermost desire. What did Joseph Campbell say when asked by Bill Moyers what the fundamental message is of all the world's great myths and spiritual traditions? "Follow your bliss. Find your beam, and get on it, and don't let anyone knock you off course once you've found it."
If we can find THAT, then there it is, a life worth living, and an object of desire worth pursuing with all our heart and creative energies, and with love.

The biggest problem most people have is that they just don't know what it is that they really want, and they are afraid to ask for help, or they give up too easily, or, they haven't taken a personal inventory, not of character defects, but of latent talents and potentialities, so not only do they not know what they really want the most in life, and are afraid to ask for help, they are not even aware of their special gift or talent. How sad is that?

This Christmas, give the greatest gift of all, from yourself to yourself. The gift is you. Just have the courage to open it when the time comes..

I just wanted to say, awsome feedback. I really enjoyed reading everyones input in this thread.

reply to post by incarnating


Is it not true that mathematics, equations, laws, and understandings break down on the quantum level? If our concepts and equations break down on the quantum level but are applicable 'here,' then this means even math is relative!

Now, cause and effect.... the very concept of it... as of right now my understanding is that it is a universal truth.

"The Ultimate Truth of the Universe is that there is not truth in the universe."

You are on the path to enlightenment, whether you realize it or not.

I am trying to see the light myself, and I have learned a few things along the way. Therefore, I think you might find some of these things fairly interesting, as you seem to be the enlightened type.

1. There are no objects, it is us that makes them so.
2. Quiet your mind, if you can do this for hours, then you will be enlightened. This is extremely difficult to do apparently, but also extremely easy. It happens after you realize the illusions of reality from what I'm hearing from various yogis. After that it is like snapping your fingers.
3. We are all one and part of god. Our purpose is to love and be happy.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I also applaud your actions to voice your understanding.

I believe strongly in Relativity in all things, even truth.
But ( but but but ), I still believe there is purpose, not simply nothingness or meaninglessness. The purpose... the meaning... its relative to what we each believe it to be.

reply to post by Sahabi


Thanks, but my point was there was and is, one shared thing we all have in common and upon which we ought to be able to agree, when we get right down to the relatiive (I prefer the word mutual) unconditioned ground of being. It's a strange paradox, in that we are entirely FREE to assign whatever meaning we like within a reletavistic frame of reference ie: no one can TELL us what to believe (although they can invite us to consider certain things from various angles and perspectives), but at the same time we can't just go running off as individuals of relative isolation (isolate consciousness) wherein our every delusion may be considered a valid POV. There are common denominators, common variables, and I would suggest that it all starts with a common bond, in love. See, if I love you and you are being destructive and hurtful, either to yourself or others, and are totally deluded, I am compelled to help you "see the light" or to "take the splinter from your eye" but this I cannot do effectively, unless and until I have first taken "the beam out of my own eye", or I'd just be a hypocrite, and certainly not helpful or loving really, regardless of my intensions, and so I might need you to help me get the beam out of my eye, to in turn help you get that splinter from yours!
It's the relativity of human being as a common ground, a shared mutuality, born of love. It's not just purely reletavism. There is a paradox of leadership here, obviously, along with a possible rebellion against authority! That's the problem - who sets the rules, who defines the game, and for what reason or purpose..

Namaste! (I honour the place in your that shares the same ground of being with a place in me)

Originally posted by sliceNodice
1. There are no objects, it is us that makes them so.

Are you saying and implying the same thing as mentioned in the Matrix movie?

Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

Please elaborate on this point. I am walking a path in search of Peace and Enlightenment, but the meaning of this concept in relation to my existence alludes me.

reply to post by Sahabi


The illusion of maya is only the illusion of separation. The phenomenal world still exists, it, is not the illusion, only the idea that you are separate from the world, and from the whole of it all. There knower within who knows already knows this, so all you have to do is make an internal inquiry and the answer is already there.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I am currently having a discussion with LifeIsEnergy in the thread Why live inside a box?
I came to some personal understandings in that thread about love.

When pondering "Love is the Unifier of All," I stumbled onto a "hidden" understanding. People do great things in the name of Love, no need to elaborate this fact. But "Love" also acts as a catalyst to even stronger manifestations of the "bad" emotions. People become fearful, angry, and hate-filled when Love is lost. Resentful, regretful, envious, and jealous at the reality of losing Love. People even fall into rage and deep depression due to a loss. Heart-ache can even lead to murder and/or suicide. If Love was truly pure, it's only fruition would be positive! "Love is Blind," additionally with my earlier conclusion, Love is the Ultimate Blinder, not binder!

What are your personal thoughts regarding my understanding of love?