DNA changes while learning!

I stumbled upon this thing while reading Duodecim....medical journal...apparently they haven't made news article about it so I thought I post it here...

This was not the original article but enough since I accidentally posted empty post, which I had to fill quickly....

Here is original translated manually...by hand...

Y-kromosome and epigeneticlal mechanisms, source of difference between genders..

Men and women share similiar genetical components exluding X and Y chromosomes. Scientists have been intrigued for a long time about the meaning of Y-chromosome, because it contains few genes which encode proteins. While researching on flies (Drosophila melanogaster) researchers found Y-chomosome affects makeup of other chromosomes. This was found to be connected with activity controlling epigenetical mechanisms.
Conclusion was that Y-cromosome affects partially to differences between genders and activity of the genes...- at least on male flies...

(Lemos Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 2010;107;15826)

Gender affects stressmechanisms

Adrenocorticotropic hormone releaser hormone (CRF) affects in active mental state differently central neural system on males and females. This was confirmed in a study where effects of CRF were studied on brainstem locus caeruleus noradrnergical activation neurons. This causes changes in mental activity state, when stress levels increase.
In normal state CRF receiver (CRFr) in locus caeruleus cells is more active in females than in males. CRFr connected more often on females to GTP (Gs) protein more often than in females. Exposure to stress equalaized this difference by increasing CRFr:n bonding to Gs in males but not on females. At the same time in males CRFr intake increased, which caused activation of cells caused by stress to lessen. Conclusion is that brainstem cells were more sensible to small amount of stress in females and adabted worse in bigger quantites of CFR.

(There were refrences to Bangasser Molecular Psychiatry 2010;15:877 )
Here is that golden part...

Epigenetical control mechanisms affect memory and and learning
Amount of rats were subjected to sudden fear, which is saved in memory as conditional reflex for a few months. Then it is thought that long term learning happens as such that memory primary control moves from hippocampus to brainstem, for example dorsomedallic prefrontalcortex, prelimbical shell (not sure right translation? ) and (pihtipoimun etuosaan, dunno right translation for that).
In research they followed thee genes related to learning. Firs gene methylation process (Egr1), didn't change after subjection. Second gene reline (?) methylized immediately after fear subjection, but returned to original state over time. Third gene calciumneurine (?) hypermethyleted after twenty-four hour period from learning. Gene stayed methylated for a long time all long until the end of the research month.
At the same time when the calciumneurine control areas methylated, both the gene appearance (?) and amounts of protein decreased. Calciumeneurine is part of synaptical suppression (?). It is then natural that it's activity decreased with metylation in situations, when there was long-term learning. When methylization process was farmacologically halted, no long term learning occurred.

(Miller Nature neuroscience 2010:13:664)

Scientists then deduced that learning process includes changes in Dna activity levels through changes in local methylation levels. Methylation is then a part of so called epigenetical control mechanism, which means cells nucleus kromosomethread crease (?) and activity changing mechanisms. Gene control area cytosinealkali (?) methylisation process leads to decrease in genes activity.
Same research team has proven before that, hippocampus area cells methylation is directly connected to learning. Now published research proves different methylization processes influence over longtime and sequency of process. (?) Findings fit well with common perception of brain activityinterconnections. Learning and adaptation requires from the brain ability to change, and there are also epigenetical control mechanisms underneath them.

I am not sure about my translation so I marked things I was uncertain with question marks.
Everyone, please forgive me for posting originally unfinished thread... My bad....anyone with better skills with scientific language...please correct me if I made mistakes in my translation. They might have occurred in terminology.

reply to post by SpeDeZo

Hi SpeDeZo.

If you like the intellect and biological aspects of life,
see the link in the first line of my signature.

It will get you to a 3 DVD kit.
In there, it is talked about "peptides", the "plastic brain",
(meaning our brain changes ALL the time, ALL our life, young or old),
our "inside chemestry", . . .etc. . .

Blue skies.

what! WHAT!? sighs!
I read this in a book in a university 26 years ago!
it is the RNA a part of the DNA.
they found it changes with memory.

all science is old.
its just at the time. they are just not ready for it.

I remember at the same time I read that they had found that meters have microbe life on it.
and that may be how life came to earth.
oh well they will find them again in 25 to 30 years.

at the time I thought hard about this............
and I realized that if memory is on DNA.
and your dna passes from your mother and father.
then the memories pass!!!
so some memories from very far back ?

a new born has simple instincts.
a brain that is preprogrammed.

reply to post by buddha


"a new born has simple instincts.
a brain that is preprogrammed. "

i completely agree.

infants pick up on things far too quickly to deifne it as a 'learned behavior'. they jsut know and if memory actually has life wow.

thanks for the article.

reply to post by buddha


Remember in the nineties the study with mice that found cheese in a maze five generations later without taking any wrong turns,because the ancestor learned to find it five generations ago.
Takes a while for us to chew on info doesn't it?

reply to post by C-JEAN


Please forgive me. I just accidentally posted thread before it was finished...I took a bold step and decided to finish it up quickly... at first I panicked so I put first link that I found about research using google...not quite the way I wanted but close enough...I'l promise i will never let fellow ATS...read unfinished thread again made by me..

Sorry.

reply to post by SpeDeZo


dont worrry about it.
it is what you put up.
not how.
just go back and hit the edit button.
or just add more.

Amazing Topic, thanks for posting this!
(Obligatory Second Line)

reply to post by buddha


sounds like assassin's creed, where you get in the animus and travel back to relive your ancestor's memories, in order to gain certain information.

very strange if true.

just wanted to add, it could explain people believing they have had pass lives, they may just be accessing their own dna (memories) that their ancestors had.

The article is actually talking about expression patterns of DNA, not the DNA itself. Every gene has a complex system of inhibiting and promoting elements that control how often that gene is read, transcribed, and translated into a protein, which then affects the cell (or other cells). New experiences, exposure to different environments, and other stimuli can cause genes to turn off, turn on, or increase/decrease their rate of expression.

The idea of "memories" being passed on is nonsense. DNA simply codes protein. Instincts (like recoiling from burning surfaces, reaching for food, visually tracking objects) are hard-wired during fetal brain development, but are fine-tuned after birth through stimulation, which is why it seems like babies are learning things so quickly, when in fact they already have the physiological blueprints in place.

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
The article is actually talking about expression patterns of DNA, not the DNA itself. Every gene has a complex system of inhibiting and promoting elements that control how often that gene is read, transcribed, and translated into a protein, which then affects the cell (or other cells). New experiences, exposure to different environments, and other stimuli can cause genes to turn off, turn on, or increase/decrease their rate of expression.

The idea of "memories" being passed on is nonsense. DNA simply codes protein. Instincts (like recoiling from burning surfaces, reaching for food, visually tracking objects) are hard-wired during fetal brain development, but are fine-tuned after birth through stimulation, which is why it seems like babies are learning things so quickly, when in fact they already have the physiological blueprints in place.

edit on 12/3/2010 by VneZonyDostupa because: (no reason given)

First of all this article talks about DNA activation changes, which may lead to changes in DNA....as you said... but idea was something like activity changes may lead to permanent changes in ones DNA of a cell.

Hopping to conclusion of learning is little too haphazard, but we could theorize that if generations are subjected to same stimuli certain reaction to situation may become natural. Baby example is very good one.

I probably shouldn't have chosen as screaming thread name as I did....

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


the DNA holds all the information to grow the brain.
when a baby opens its eyes.
it is programmed to see its mother and Lock that memory in the brain.
now what about this. is a learnt thing?
and many things that a baby does.
how do you explain how s child can do things at 5 a adult takes years to learn.
there is to much that can only be grown/programmed in to the brain.

The blind and deaf will never learn the truth.
to learn the truth you must try to believe in every thing
then find out the lies.

scientists said there was nothing before the big bang!
oops! now they have found out side are universe
are things that are far older than are universe.
so that makes so many of there theories bull ship!!
like they say they can not find all the mass there should be?
so they Made Up Dark Mater.................
Wake Up!

"The flat-worm or planarian is a very simple invertebrate, nevertheless, in 1955 Thompson and McConnell showed that planaria could be classically conditioned to avoid light by pairing a light CS with an electric shock US. It becomes clear just how simple an animal a planarian is when you discover that if one is cut in half while alive the two halves regenerate into two complete flatworms - the tail-half grows a new head and the head-half a new tail! McConnell's initial discovery about memory in flatworms was that once a flatworm had been conditioned to avoid light if you cut it in half and allow the halves to regenerate both of the resulting worms show evidence of knowing the light-shock association. McConnell interpreted this as evidence that memory in flatworms was not localised in the head but was, rather distributed throughout the animal. In 1962 McConnell performed an experiment which appeared to be even more dramatic demonstration of this. After training some planaria he ground them up an fed them to other planaria. These animals were quicker at learning the light-shock association than controls who were fed ground-up untrained worms. "

www.dur.ac.uk...

"Suspicion then fell on the role played by RNA in memory. Corning and John (1961) repeated the McConnell studies, but arranged for the regeneration phase to take place in a weak solution of ribonuclease - an enzyme which actively destroys RNA. This time, the heads retained the original training whilst the tails did not. If memory was being stored throughout the animal's body at the instant it was transected, then what subsequently happened at the head end was different to what happened at the tail end. Specifically, the head end might have formed a protein-based engram in its rudimentary nervous system, whilst the tail might have formed only an RNA-based engram. Only the latter would then be affected by the ribonuclease treatment."
www.smithsrisca.demon.co.uk...

the science that started this came from the 1960.
they said it was rubbish.
as they do when they wont to hide new technology.
and do you think they never continued the research?

some primitive people believe that if you eat
some of your enemy you take some of there strenth.
sounds stupid? maybe not., read above links.

have you never notict that you can learn
and understand some things quicker than others?

People, there seems to be an awful lot of misunderstanding here. The quoted articles talk about DNA methylation, a process that can alter "gene activity" - whether or not RNA can be transcribed from a certain area of DNA. Most of these epigenetic modifications are not inherited - even though there are some exceptions to this rule, like genetic imprinting. Modifications mentioned in the article, however, occur in brain cells - while it's a gamete (oocyte or sperm cell) that is passed on to the next generation.

In other words, for people without any scientific background: you'll probably want to remember that if something changes the DNA, it doesn't automatically mean that the change can be inherited (fortunately). A well-known genetic change like that (affecting somatic cells) is the case of malignant tumors (in other words, cancer).