[UPDATED] - The Most Dangerous Man In America.

Here is a question/debate seemingly ideal for ATS:

With all of the Wikileaks controversy and hype I couldn’t help but think of Daniel Ellsberg. For the benefit of those who don’t know, Daniel Ellsberg was a famous whistle blower who released hundreds of top secret documents from the Pentagon in the early 1970’s. More on Ellsberg here. The condensed version of his story is; he worked for a company named RAND which was sub-contracted by the Pentagon. His girlfriend (war activist) convinced him to blow several whistles on the Vietnam War, turning classified documents over to the New York Times. He was arrested and tried in a federal court, ultimately the case was thrown out because it was said that “Americans had a right to know” the information he had released.

If you have Netflix check out “The Most Dangerous Man In America” documentary, it’s about two hours but totally worth it!

As soon as I heard of the Wikileaks publication the first thing I thought of was Ellsberg, the only difference is now we have a 26 year old Army Intel. Analyst sitting in a cell (since 2007) without counsel for releasing a bunch of e-mails he downloaded. I don’t believe the soldier thought for a second that he could get away with it, I believe he did this for the same reason as Ellsberg. In interviews with Ellsberg he openly admits that he made the correct decision, facing life in prison he felt it was his mission and duty to make this information public.

Below is a more recent YouTube video of Ellsberg/WikiLeaks.



Shortly before Nixon’s impeachment there was speculation of suspension of our second amendment until an executive order of sorts could be implemented in order to prevent further publication of any such documents. If anyone has more information on this, it would be appreciated.

It makes perfect sense why a site like WikiLeaks would take this matter into their hands and make it public. If the MSM won’t touch it, someone has to.

On to our Intel. Analyst:

It’s clear that a breach of security on the level of the Vietnam War ultimately resulting in the demise of a US president’s status and reputation is going to turn more than a few heads and permanently change policies such as freedom of press, unauthorized publication, etc. The well-known quote by Henry Kissinger called Ellsberg “The most dangerous man in America”, if that was the case then, what in Gods name would they call Ellsberg today? We detain terrorists without cause, trial, counsel, etc. Now we detain our own troops the same way, this is terrorism?

Now before all you secrecy nuts go crazy, I am not advocating the release of these documents, I for one was thrilled for the information but have a difficult time justifying what has been done. Americans absolutely have a right to know, but the concept is simple that once we know, they know.

Fear mongering will never stop, but I think most of you would agree when I say that knowing that our enemies may have information potentially crippling to the safety of our troops and country scares me more than anything I could ever see on Fox news.

Back to the soldier who released the information in the first place. If Ellsberg was let off the hook and made a national hero for his service to the public, how is this soldier or Wiki any different? In order for this soldier to be tried, first he has to be released and given the opportunity to speak to counsel, etc.

Do you think we will ever see him again?


Bradley Manning, US Army Intel. Specialist
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/74108dee234d.jpg[/atsimg]

Daniel Ellsberg
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e026b461455c.jpg[/atsimg]

And what about founder of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e2cfb655e97e.jpg[/atsimg]

Regardless of what’s right or wrong, God bless these men for putting their lives on the line. We only get one chance at this life and they are willing to sacrifice it for the sake of doing what they believe is right.

If anyone has anything to contribute on the policies in place, etc. it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

NWD

edit on 29-11-2010 by NewWorldDisorder because: Link fix, photo fix.

reply to post by NewWorldDisorder


very good post. S&F for you.

I think you may have really posted some good info, you don't seem to take sides, and you post both the pros and cons.

I think the question is, "is this the only way for americans to get the truth??? someone has to provide us with classified info????

you would think that, that is what we have congress for????????????????????

Originally posted by ParkerCramer
reply to post by NewWorldDisorder

I think the question is, "is this the only way for americans to get the truth??? someone has to provide us with classified info????

you would think that, that is what we have congress for????????????????????

Unfortunately, our congress no longer represents us. The states have no representation at all any longer, remember that was the function of the senate. The house was to represent the people, but they only worry about saying and doing what they must to get re-elected. We need term limits. Even better would be a "national draft" to pick members of congress, with terms still limited.

reply to post by ParkerCramer


Thanks for the reply. It's starting to look like conspiracy/alternative news sites are the only way this information will be made public -- and sadly I don't see that lasting a whole lot longer. Congress has limited power and are scrutinized if they such as sneeze. Freedom of information seems to grow more scarce by the year.

Beautiful posts, May God be with them. These are great brave men, who holds great grave truths. I respect them for their duties, lets all strive in our own way to bring darkness into light.

"It makes perfect sense why a site like WikiLeaks would take this matter into their hands and make it public. If the MSM won’t touch it, someone has to."


Amen to that.

I will take a side here. None of these people did anything for the good of the United States. Their intent was to disrupt American policy regardless of how many lives were lost. Ellsberg was and is a socialist. The soldier is a traitor and should be treated accordingly. Julian Assange is the Glorida Allred of the underground media and will do anything for fame. If if harms the United States, that is all the better.

I am an American citizen and don't like to be kept in the dark. However, if I know something, that means our enemies know something. That is dangerous for our people. Nobody on this continent can keep a secret except George Bush 41 and Dick Cheney and they are not talking.

Everybody is cheering for these enemies of the United States for one simple reason. We consistently elect idiots into congress who are then appointed to oversight committees and they have absolutely no idea of what they are doing. I think of the congressman from Georgia (Hank Johnson) who thought another 8000 Marines would cause the island of Guam to capsize. Those are the types of people who get elected. If we had a competent congress with competent oversight committees, we wouldn't even want these traitors to walk around free. Instead of cheering for those who want to see our country fail, how about a little common sense when you walk into the voting booth?

How many of you are cheering that China launched a cyber attack against the United States. Those that are cheering are not true Americans. I am not saying my country right or wrong but I am saying nobody has the right to undermine our policy just because they disagree with it. That puts everyone in danger. There are other ways to correct the problem instead of breaching our national security.

Thank you for the thread, and thank you to these heros.
second

There are hundreds of thousands of Americans that know some dirty little secrets the Pentagon/CIA doesn't want out.


Ever ponder the thought David Manning was a show of force to silence the rest? Wikileaks was completely orchestrated by us. No matter what they release.....the real truth being kept secret is 1000x times worse and could end civilization in North America.

I know a lot of people are feeling afraid that our 'enemies' have received information, but I honestly don't buy into that. We can't even be sure that these 'enemies' are truly 'enemies' and not also Illuminati selected agents playing their role to bring the world to its knees.

The fear which I have seen expressed also makes the assumption that these 'enemies' weren't aware of this information already - which is highly doubtful. They too all have their spies and their contacts. I would be very, very suprised if much of this information is news to most of the intel agencies around the world.

TPTB will spread this rationale - because it puts them in a better light, and because it instills fear into people.

My belief is that their real fear is that it is public, and therefore likely to hinder their evil agenda.

Already, many countries now have information which we all should be taking our respective governments to task on. This too will help hinder their evil agenda. They need to know we are watching and ready to take action.

I honestly don't think this has in any way endangered any country's national security, it has exposed some of the Vipers duplicity, that is what they don't like and they're trying to deflect attention away from those things.

Remember:

FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real

Thanks for the thread, OP. S&F.

Just a couple of notes about PFC Manning. He's been in prison since May 2010, not since 2007. He has counsel -- his lead counsel is David Coombs. He is facing two charges, with several specifications in each, the primary being:

CHARGE I: VIOLATION OF THE UCMJ, ARTICLE 92

SPECIFICATION 1: In that Private First Class Bradley E. Manning, U.S. Army, did, between on or about 19 November 2009 and on or about 27 May 2010, at or near Contingency Operating Station Hammer, Iraq, violate a lawful general regulation, to wit: Paragraph 4-6(k), Army Regulation 25-2, dated 24 October 2007, by wrongfully introducing a classified video of a military operation filmed at or near Baghdad, Iraq, on or about 12 July 2007, onto his personal computer, a non-secure information system.

( Charge Sheet -- PFC Manning. The source for this document is the Bradley Manning Support Network's site, and this site also give more info about his legal counsel and other matters. )

Granted, the other specifications are also highly important, but in both charge 1 and charge 2, the "video" matter is the first specification. Maybe it's a matter that a video's worth a million words. Anyway, he's not sitting in jail just because he downloaded some emails.

By the way, PFC Manning was born in 1987 so he's not 26 years old. A minor point, perhaps, but I was a touch confused for a while when reading your OP as in conjuction with the "in jail since 2007" reference I wondered if you were referring to someone else and not Manning.

Best regards,

MIke

reply to post by NewWorldDisorder

Thanks for the reply. It's starting to look like conspiracy/alternative news sites are the only way this information will be made public -- and sadly I don't see that lasting a whole lot longer. Congress has limited power and are scrutinized if they such as sneeze. Freedom of information seems to grow more scarce by the year.

I know for a fact that mainstream media is just a propaganda mill. (I really do have to write that experience up as a thread one of these days)

We all saw how Obama sealed his records, how FOIA was completely ignored by the CRU group of East Anglia, and how the courts here are doing the same to the VA State Attorney General yet the US government (TSA) has no problem with groping peoples genitalia!

That said the information before release should be scrutinized for information that would release US military secrets compromising US security. That is clearly the act of a traitor during the time of war. I do imagine that there may have been a time crunch that made that hard to do but I have not followed the story closely.

Originally posted by Nite_wing

Nobody on this continent can keep a secret except George Bush 41 and Dick Cheney and they are not talking.

I couldn't agree with you more, they have so many secrets, that have led the innocent deaths of over 100,000 people, and counting.

Everybody is cheering for these enemies of the United States for one simple reason.

what enemys??? who's cheering??? have you even read any of the releases??? please, do tell, who or what has been compromised??

We consistently elect idiots into congress who are then appointed to oversight committees and they have absolutely no idea of what they are doing. I think of the congressman from Georgia (Hank Johnson) who thought another 8000 Marines would cause the island of Guam to capsize. Those are the types of people who get elected. If we had a competent congress with competent oversight committees, we wouldn't even want these traitors to walk around free. Instead of cheering for those who want to see our country fail, how about a little common sense when you walk into the voting booth?

if i knew what you were talking about, i'd respond to this one, but i'm lost???

I am not saying my country right or wrong but I am saying nobody has the right to undermine our policy just because they disagree with it. That puts everyone in danger.

they diagree with it, because it's ILLEGAL"

There are other ways to correct the problem instead of breaching our national security. [

again, could you please provide PROOF of a breach in national security????

reply to post by wcitizen


Sure sounds plausible, especially after reading the stories covered in the MSM about this. If Wiki is indeed a cover company/site I could see its use for manipulation and/or fear tactics.

Secondly, if Wiki were a true threat to national security we would not see it online. You constantly hear about troops posting sensitive pictures on facebook, incriminating/sensitive blogs, etc.. These are typically removed within hours or minutes of their publication. If people think the US doesn't have a task force designed specifically for this reason, they are sadly mistaken.

TPTB could and would pave __._ into a metaphorical Wal-Mart parking lot in under a milli-second if they felt it were a danger/threat to national security....

Interesting reply, thanks!

reply to post by JustMike


Thanks for clearing that up, I was going off memory from an article in Time. Interesting how the majority of MSM reports half of the story. Updating with correct dates/new info now. Thanks again!

reply to post by NewWorldDisorder

Glad to be of some help. As for the MSM, they seem very adept at reporting only half the story -- if they report it at all, of course.

I've noted here (and elsewhere on the web) that some people are calling Manning a traitor and saying he should be hanged or shot or whatever. I find this bothersome as he has only been charged at this stage and the case has not even gone to trial. I hope that those who make such statements against a man who has not even been found guilty of a crime would bear in mind that in the USA, at least, he is innocent until proven guilty.

If this presumption of innocence is to be cast aside by some merely because the crimes he has been charged with are repugnant to them, then I can only hope that they do not one day find themselves sitting in a cell and awaiting trial for a serious or even heinous crime, especially where they might actually either be innocent -- or found to be so by a court of law.

Mike

Originally posted by Nite_wing

I am not saying my country right or wrong but I am saying nobody has the right to undermine our policy just because they disagree with it. That puts everyone in danger. There are other ways to correct the problem instead of breaching our national security. [

There are a few things in your post that I was tempted to reply to, but I'm just going to reply to this one.

'nobody has the right to undermine our policy because they disagree with it' - your government undermines the policies or tries to assert control over the policies of most of the globe, of course people have the right to try to expose that and undermine it. Try telling the Afghans or the Iraqis that they have no right to try to undermine US policies.

Your same government labels innocent US citizens as terrorists because they disagree with the government.

'That puts everyone in danger' Who does it put in danger? What does it put in danger??? Please be specific.

''There are other ways to correct the problem instead of breaching our national security.' How, specifically, has national security been breached? Please tell me.


Don't you think that US illegal wars is a danger to national security?
Don't you think that unconditional support for Israeli war crimes is a breach of national security?

Originally posted by wcitizen

Your same government labels innocent US citizens as terrorists because they disagree with the government.

'That puts everyone in danger' Who does it put in danger? What does it put in danger??? Please be specific.

''There are other ways to correct the problem instead of breaching our national security.' How, specifically, has national security been breached? Please tell me.

Pelosi called the Tea Party Terror Nazis
The pentagon labels protestors as home grown low level terrorists
Big says says gun owners are terrorists

Those are your Obama zombies. That is "your;" government not mine.
My government believes in the Constitution.

My answer on how to change it? Re-read my post. The hint is think before you vote.

I find the timing on the Wikileaks release being very close the the COICA bill going up for vote suspicious.
Like the Anthrax letters to Congress right before the PATRIOT Act was voted on.
BYE BYE FREEDOM ON THE "NET!

Ellsberg was a hero.
It remains to be seen what Manning and Asange really are.

This is a very thought provoking thread. It really opens the forum for a variety of opinions, many of which I agree. What is missed on this is the fact that RAND was a contractor for the pentagon and in being so was in fact limited in available classified information. As an Intell analysis depending on your assigned section in a G2, you have access to an almost unlimited amounts of classified material that may range from Confidential to Top Secret, that covers HUMINT, SIGINT and other areas of data collection. When you are exposed to that much information you are expected to adhere to the same protection of that information mandated by all who are exposed to it. It is a great responsibility to lay on the shoulders of a young solider. I don't know what his justification was, but he is subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Military law is vastly different than civilian law. I know first hand what can happen. The civilian world in many cases never hears of cases where soliders have sold out their county for whatever idiology floats their boats. Albert Sombalay is still mowing grass at Fort Levenworth for trying to sell camoflage and unit information during the Gulf war. He knew the rules and chose to break them. Nobody was there to debate his reasons for what he did. This is just a different medium for sharing restricted iunformation. I'l be the first to say there are too many secrets. But what solider has a right to break his oath to protect the soventry of the country he is sworn to protect.