The Danger of WikiLeaks: Why the organization could be doing more harm than good

Great post and interesting discussion!

One thing good coming from this "dump" is that we get to understand better who are the real shills. They are the ones that are pumping this without any discussion of the likelihood that this is a controlled (CIA/MOSSAD) dump. DrundeReport and Alex Jones, for example, are either shills or dummies!

I like this thread, and it really got me thinking. But I just looooveee how we fight conspiracies with conspiracies. It's just a little overplayed now. (ie. Media is working for the government)

I think there are a lot of good questions put forward in this thread about wiki leaks intentions, policies, and the information they're providing. It is important to question everything we are exposed to in this day and age. Information is not power but the manipulation of information, how it is used.

In all I think it is better to have too much information from an almost infinite pool of sources, then a very controlled story from just a few media outlets as was the way only a decade or so ago! Sure there is much more misinformation floating about but at least there is abetter chance of getting some truth to slip through the cracks.

I must admit that when I was scanning through about 5 or 6 of the leaked documents, I was very taken by the fact that the narrative seemed to follow the general story we are given in main stream media. That of the US trying to support somewhat democratic movements in it's nation building, and the fear of a nuclear Iran.

Personally I don't think wiki leaks is an disinformation arm of the CIA or some other like agency. They are simply Providing raw data to the public. It is up to us to decide what is true or false. Although I do see the argument that if raw information is power then this is like a power overload, which can do more harm than good.

reply to post by airspoon


I am not going to read anything about why its a bad idea to tell the truth because your wrong from top to bottom. The more you talk to your self you will start to make up reasons why its ok to lie and cheat.

People get hurt because the truth hurts. If the truth starts a war then it starts a war!! At lest you will know why this time.

But like a good sleep you fight on the side of the lies and cheats. Wrong is wrong people.

There are a lot of people who seemed to have read the first paragraph of the OP and then decided to chime in, without apparently even skimming over the rest. This thread isn't about WL releasing information that threatens the national security of our state, though it certainly could. Instead, it's mainly about the chances for WL spreading disinfo and misinfo (whether intentional or not) and the fact that you have no way of authenticating. It's also about the distraction that WL creates by releasing lightly classified information and people thinking that WL itself is successful in creating transparency in government, which they aren't, not even by a long shot and even if you overlook the real possibility that much of the information is in fact dsinformation.

Many people who are swearing to WL authenticity and good motive, are doing so based on faith alone. In fact, if WL itself isn't a disinformation campaign, then it is extremely susceptable to being unintentionally used as a disinformation tool and there really isn't anything that the organization could do about it (or even know about it) and you would have no way of knowing what is true and what isn't, ultimately opening up a whole new can of worms and creating a much bigger burden than what we already have in finding the truth.

For anyone who thinks that WL couldn't be used as a disinfo tool, I'd like you to explain your reasoning. There is nothing to stop the government from covertly "leaking" disinformation and there is really no way for WL to authenticate most of what is leaked in any kind of viable manner. So, even if WL itself isn't a disinfo campaign, it would be a disinfo outlet, unless of course the government for some odd reason wouldn't take this spectacular and wonderful oppurtunity to spread disinformation through the organization. It would require extremely little effort by the government to use WL as a disinfo outlet, even if WL itself is authentic.

Furthermore, the biggest danger in my opinion, is all of these people who can't clearly see the danger that this organization poses to those of use truly seeking the truth and objectively weighing this situation. Already twice today, I have heard people claim that 9/11 couldn't have been an inside job because WL would have exposed it. Am I really one of the only ones (long with 50 odd others) who can see the potential danger in this sentiment? People are believing that WL is somehow effective at exposing all of the government's secrets or forcing government to be transparent, all because WL published a few relatively unimportant and lightly classified documents that may or may not be authentic or true (with no way for us to know for sure).

Look, even if WL itself has good intentions, there is nothing stopping WL from being used as a tool to spread disinfo by the government. In fact, it would be absolutely foolish of us to think that the government would jump on this oppurtunity that would take little to no effort to do so. Therefore, what little and measly info that is leaked, could just as well be disinformation and kicking us several steps back in our quest for truth.

This is in spite of the fact that there are red-flags, very real red-flags pointing to WL being a government or government friendly operation. Surely, if Jules is so smart, he would see the obvious flaw in the design of this program and how easily it could be used as a tool by the government. If you are going to start an organization to expose the truth in government, a "dump site" is not the way to go if you want to maintain even an ounce of integrity, as such a program could be easily turned back around to actually hurt the stated goal, much more than it could ever imagine to help said goal.

For all of those members who have obviously only read the first paragraph of the OP and felt the need to respond as if they read the whole thing, I can only say that you should read the whole thing - and understand it. It truly will make your contributions a lot more valid.

I thank everyone for joining the discussion and your opinion is truly valued. I'm certainly not trying to say that anyone's opinion is not valid, only that many peoples' opinion seems to be irrelevant to the point made in the OP.

Furthermore, I never even remotely suggested that it should be okay for the government to lie or cheat anyone. Hady you read past the first paragraph, you would have seen where I in fact say the public is entitled to know everything, to include things that will compromise our national security. It's kind of rediculous that I even have to take the time to tell folks to read my controbution before rebuking it, but so goes the yoke, I guess.



--airspoon

reply to post by Echtelion


awesome, i wish i had said it myself...............

i also hope your view of things does not fall on deaf ears, because, the real question now is...............what are we going to do about this???

just sit around and argue the infinite possibilitys of the reasons behind the leaks, or, do we act responsible, and, demand to know why this was done in our good name? AMERICA.

star for you, wish i could give you 10

reply to post by airspoon


Great post. This is a very well thorough out defense-oriented take on Wikileaks, which I appreciate because like many I am concerned for my security. Assuming that the US government and Allies have the best intentions for their constituents, I would say yes, Wikileaks is a bad thing. But I don't believe at this time that that is a correct assessment of the situation. If Wikileaks is a psy op directed at Iran, then it's obviously not a great idea. But if it is accurate, it may expose some of the crooks. The UN is rife with corruption, as is Europe and the EU. As much if not more so than the US gov't.

www.euobserver.com... I found this to be frightening 110 US nukes near cambridge according to cablegate

I was really for wikileaks when they were attacking everyone and not just countries, when they exposed corporations using insider knowledge but now i'm not as happy about the organisation. For a start, much of what they have released is utterly unimportant. What some royal family member said really doesn't concern me, i just don't care.

Worst of all the governments of the world are turning this situation to their advantage (like any good intelligence service will) and are using it as an excuse to control the internet. This is the last bastion of freedom, there won't be another like it and once controlled it will be the end of good, open discourse and the ability to expose real crimes, anonymously and with ease will be gone.

Originally posted by Theorytripper
Personally I don't think wiki leaks is an disinformation arm of the CIA or some other like agency. They are simply Providing raw data to the public. It is up to us to decide what is true or false. Although I do see the argument that if raw information is power then this is like a power overload, which can do more harm than good.

I have no doubt that the info is real, but redacted. For example, nothing derogatory about Israel? Please ... even in the wake of the Gaza flotilla fiasco, which fell within the leak window? Of course, every negative mention of Israel was undoubtedly removed. That is how Netinyahu was able to come out first, before any other HOS to brag that there will be nothing in the leaks that damn Israel and proves Israel is right about Iran (www.haaretz.com...). Wake up, peeps! You are being played, big-time.

Case in point: post by weedwhacker. There, we have someone suggesting that the government is not lying to us about that much and these cables prove it, as if that is even remotely sound logic. Can people now begin to see the danger that this organization can present?

Not only do we not know the level of integrity or truth in these documents, but these are very low level classified cables, not even a tiny portion of what the government wants to really keep secret, if in fact they are true.


--airspoon

Wikileaks is a big distraction, a distraction from the nuclear war about to break out in the Yellow Sea.

The same day drills began, wikileaks leaked top-secret diplomatic cables, and everyone was worried about reading the latest leak, rather then report on whats happening in Korea.

The last I've heard, was the drills started and North Korea shot a few warning shots. Then I was left to wander alone forever, in the dark.. Wikileaks took all the damn light!

reply to post by airspoon


The angle I began looking at when the first document dump took place was technology.

By digitizing most all information it has become increasingly apparent where the dangers lie. Just think of how hard it is through FOIA to get anything from the "pre-internet" age.

Security for countries was always well guarded until the advent of the world wide web. Having written correspondence and telephone conversations in years past was security enough to keep away the likes of the Wiki's of this world.

I'm not saying the unibomber was right in his rants about the future of a technological society. What I am saying is this is certainly a by-product of just such a culture. The sharing and gathering of information has turned would be sideline players into self proclaimed brainiacs because "They found the information on the net"

Now we come here to threads and demand sources to do our own fact checking. Imagine that? 20 years ago people sat, had coffee together and shared speculation and rumors. They would source the newspaper or the evening news as their irrefutable proof. They did however look eye to eye which sadly is a thing of the very distant past.

I'm certainly deeply concerned and disappointed in Wiki's blatant attack on the U.S. We've started to see momentum from some powerful people in regards to criminally pursuing Wiki's owner. Here's a great opportunity to send a strong message concerning exceptable limits to cyber warfare.

Becker

reply to post by airspoon


you seem to say that the biggest danger is that we expect wiki-leaks to solve all of our problems, and answer all the questions.

so, far i have not seen a post that would lead you to believe that. we are wise enough to know that we did not get here overnight, and we wouldn't expect to have all the solutions overnight. but, we will take what we can get, and if it is some genuine, mixed in with some disinfo, then so be it.

you also said we do not know if it is authenic or true?????????? are you serious?? do you see the response thatis coming from TPTB?? you think they have control of this situation. a good example of this would be their (TPTB) response to the supposed missle launch earlier this month. they had control of that, they waited, they put out there 2 or 3 cover storys, and let us do the rest. now, with this incident, they are going off the deep end. they have contacted every country involved, they are screaming for an investigation, they are screaming terroism.

you know why??? because they don't know what's next, yes, they may have some idea, but, their not 100% sure.

now, to cover your point that WK is a "DUMP SITE". to believe this you would have to believe that wk is smart enough to keep their site up and running during these somewhat turbulant times, but, yet not smart enough to sift through some of the bull they recieve....???

so, are you saying these documents are fake??? of no importance?? disruptive to national security??

i think you need to pick a position and try to stick with it through out the entire thread..

reply to post by airspoon


Airspoon...
I'm just curious where your feelings really lie in regards to these leaks..

You have this thread pointing out they could be dangerous disinfo etc.

Then you start another thread accepting them as facts..The Saudi thread..

Where are you, you're all over the shop..????

reply to post by GirlGenius


Dont forget this first batch 219 there might be a something about isreal in the comming batchs over the next cpl month
I seen netanyahu on telly tonight making the most of the leaks condemming Iran Whys he so confident does he know that isreal wont be in the leaks

The released Iraq and Afghanistan records showed tends of thousands more civilian deaths than were previously reported. If the government doesn't want wikileaks to prosper, then stop staging illegal invasions and killing hundreds of thousands of civilians.

If you want to make an argument against wikileaks, why don't you actually describe some ACTUAL negative consequences rather than rambling on about hypotheticals. Frankly, you sound like Bush apologists trying to retroactively justify torture that accomplished nothing but the destruction of American ideals.

Also, Wikileaks asked the government to tell them what information would endanger lives and should be redacted. The Government told them to stick it. If lives were actually in danger, the government would not have refused to do so.

My concern at the moment is why the only one coming out of this situation smelling sweet was Israel. There's nothing about the Gaza invasion even though it was clear that criticism was going on behind the scenes. Maybe those documents will be released later. Only time will tell.

Originally posted by airspoon
Case in point: post by weedwhacker.

Not only do we not know the level of integrity or truth in these documents, but these are very low level classified cables, not even a tiny portion of what the government wants to really keep secret, if in fact they are true.


--airspoon

so, your saying that wiki leaks has nothing here??? why, then is TPTB running for cover?????


so, these are low level comm., and not even what the gov't really wants to keep secret??? so, if WK leaks the stuff that the gov't really wants to remain secret, then will you change sides.///

LOL LOL LOL

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by airspoon

 

Airspoon...
I'm just curious where your feelings really lie in regards to these leaks..

You have this thread pointing out they could be dangerous disinfo etc.

Then you start another thread accepting them as facts..The Saudi thread..

Where are you, you're all over the shop..????

edit on 29-11-2010 by backinblack because: (no reason given)

excellent observation. he's got different opinions on at least three different threads today!!!

is it possible that he's trying to confuse the issue???????????????

good catch, star for you

secrecy is whats wrong with the world today. Obama promised transparency but where is it huh? He is a deceptive liar. Secrecy also has hidden and suppressed technologies that could benefit mankind but those technologies will never see the light of day because if people had unlimited free energy, a lot of rich people would lose money. Secret societies like the bilderberg group plot to depopulate the earth, a crime that far exceeds anything the nazis ever did. Secrecy is never good. If you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to hide.obviously a lot of people are doing evil heinous things that can never see the light of day without causing a full blown revolution, which we so desperately need to restore the power of the people and drive out the devils ruling the world today. I thought wikileaks would report things from russia or china but all I ever see is US related information coming from wikileaks that is my only gripe. I know china and russia must be equally as secretive and evil so wheres the leaks?