Why do you hate the God of the Bible?

Why do you automatically assume that just because people aren't Christian, they "hate the God of the Bible"? I don't. To me, he's just another mythological archetype, and not a particularly positive one at that.

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
Why is it that trying to stay true to beliefs you uphold as an individual can be so difficult...just like physical affects in the scientific world?

Well, just that we are living in a world that is according to our beliefs, imperfect and even though you may be a Christian you are still prone to the wants and desires of the world, which is not good as a large basis of believing in Jesus and God is dependence on him not the world. Hope that answers your question.

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
You're right, and I apologize - I have a tendency to shoot off at the mouth before thinking about my own true beliefs. Sorry if I offended you.

Na, you know what...forget it. I was a bit cranky last night. My apologies. ::hug::

Na, you know what...forget it. I was a bit cranky last night. My apologies. ::hug::

even though you may be a Christian you are still prone to the wants and desires of the world, which is not good as a large basis of believing in Jesus and God is dependence on him not the world.

That's a good answer - all the things you do that are sinful are actually what keep your faith and belief in God alive, and as long as you are true to yourself than you can "stay in checK" so to speak...I was just throwing that question out there, had never really thought about it before - I found that picture of a guy being held in mid-air by the wind and I thought, this is perfect!

please bare with me here i am going to try to address several things in the
order of their appearence.

Adam was created in the image of god,

one of the first renditions of this passage that i remember was stated a bit differently. " ...... and inOur image created We him."

The first thing that comes to my mind is the Crusades.

more than the crusades the thing that comes to my mind is the Inquisition
which in one form or another lives to this day..

Animals, plants etc. were not given a spirit.

on this point we will never agree. i believe all things have a spirit. this leads
to this,

I need to take what He says to heart and pay more attention to it

perhaps if people paid more attention to what the spirits of other creations
said, and listened to the voice of The Creator of All carried on the wind
and in the voices of the Trees and rushing Waters. there could be less
strife in the human world.

Also it's kinda weird that you said you wouldn't "serve" that kind of God. Very few who hate God say this word. This is a concept in the Bible, and since you used it it leads me to believe that you know more about the Bible than others.

please becareful what you ASS U ME

I believe some people have the wrong idea of who the God of the Bible is.

i think this would have been better stated as what you believe the God of the
bible to be.

we tell them to kindly shove it

we tell them to kindly shove it

sometimes it requires telling them not so kindly

heres a quote you might like:
"the only problem with christianity is the christians!"

here is another: " Jesus, save me from your followers."

but if a priest(who is to represent God's truth) says to me no matter what your going to purgatory for an unspecified time for your sin, that's a bummer

but then the priest can sell you indulgences, basically get out of jail free cards.

"Harry Potter" comes to mind - Harmione Granger's intense mental work out

it is at least a reference to Hermione's comment on the book she check out for
"light reading" in which they founr the reference to Nicholas Flamel.

sorry for being so long winded.

[edit on 2-7-2004 by stalkingwolf]

Originally posted by Hecate100
Why do you automatically assume that just because people aren't Christian, they "hate the God of the Bible"?

I'm with you there. In other words, why do Christians think everyone who is not for them is against them?

Originally posted by iceofspades with you there. In other words, why do Christians think everyone who is not for them is against them?

I think the Jehovah's Witnesses are a good example of why some people feel that way...And they in turn make those without faith afraid...Of course most Jehovah's Witnesses are actually great people - I don't know many, but a few - it's just their strict observations and lifestyles are sometimes unreal.

My biggest gripe about the God of the Bible is the obvious contradictions on just about everything. Some people claim that God never contradicts hisself, but this is simply not true. After handing down commandments on how to live righteously, God is seen always dictating ways to conquer nations including: Killing, rape, plunder - even on women and children. Does he not nullify his so-called commandments? Hmmm.

Here is a great site about the Bible's contradicitions:

EvilBible

I believe we will be filled in on the details of why God makes these rules and then encourages breaking them when we die and I would surely like to understand exactly what higher untold purpose their is for causing people to be misguided through this kind of activity.

Ice- I agree! Bravo! I dont hate em, I just dont agree.

and ben, watch out! theres actually a thread someone started named, "Name any inconsistency in the Bible, and I can prove who its not inconsistent."

You should go duke it out with him, but maybe in private if it gets too heated.

Scat
I think most of what I posted earlier regarding your questioning of my take on Satan and deomns are fairly accurate, so I'll leave them at that.

Unless it's too personal of a question, what are some of the factors that lead you all to either believe or not believe in God? Is it something you grew up with or was it based on a personal experience?

Not too personal at all!

Its definitely based on experience. i was raised Catholic until we stopped going to shurch when I was about 6. I still continued Sunday school, but havent been to church regularly in years.

For the past 4 years I was thrown into a state of agnostic depression. If I went to Church I had a panic attcks so severe I would scream or seizure during services. I always thought, "What if Im wrong? What if Im thrown into eternal damnation because I dont believe in Jesus??" Then I looked around the giant congregation and thought," But what if all of thse epeople are wrong? What if there is nothing else, and what if all their hard work was for nthing and they are tortured for eternity?" or an even worse thought "what if theres nothing...."

Nothing helped, no church, no talks, no discussions, none of my art nor writings helped me find God. People always said to me, "God will help you, but only if you accept Jesus as your savior!" I think this is so cruel, I couldnt believe it. These people turned against me, their hearts hardened because I didnt believe the same. Some of my best friends, not to mention the first man I fell in love with, all left me because of it.

Until one day I was sitting, talking, almost crying with some friends about my confusion and depression. We were at a rehersal for the Nutcracker, in which I had a little sister (not real, a theater family situation) whom was sitting in my lap. She turned to me once the topic of conversation had changed and completely randomly burst out, "Do you believe in god?" In less than a second I replied,"Of course."

This was the strangest thing. I didnt evn have to think about it. That girl is my guardian angel, and from that point on I have never had my doubts about god. Of course, I have doubts about all forms of religion, but I dont ned that. I prefer my one on one relationship with god. Its much cooler and better for me mentally and spiritually.

I dont pray and I dont fear God, because if God sends me angels and talks to me personally, I think shes got a lot of respect for me. Hes superior to me inall ways, but has also taught me not to fear or degrade myself because of it. Like ive said before, a big problem I have with Christianity is fear. Ive never had that.

I talk to God on a regular basis, mostly I look towards the moon because I figure, hey , god is so cool, shed probably go and hang out on the moon just because shes a badass. hahahha. but thats how it goes.

none of my beliefs were ever tuaght to me, and thats how i know that they are my own and my own relationship with god. i didnt rely on someones dogma or code to find faith. it just happened. ive had alot of heartbreak because of the feuding of religion, but faith has never given me one tear.

thats my story i guess, i probably left alot out though. hahahha.


**so now onward- hows about you enron?

That's a touching account...I'm glad you've made it to where you are, spiritually...
I saw the word Dogma......and I saw you say she, referring to God.....and I love putting words into pictures, so - lol

My story, huh?
My mother grew up in a very strictly religious family, church every day and after-hour study sessions...she didn't care for it too much - she felt is was forced on her. My father never realy grew up with much religion. So, in turn, I was raised as a Christmas and Easter Christian

About 8 years ago my mother began to have severe symptoms of trigeminal neuralgia - which, in short, is a blood vessel pulsating against a facial nerve, creating unbearable pains when you smile, brush your teeth, or get upset, etc...She had her first brain surgery (Microvascualr Decompression) at about this time and I was scared - being only...I guess 13...I was confused when I saw the chaplain talking to my mother before her surgery - I wanted to tell him to get away, but something inside me said no...Those nights before her surgery and during it, I prayed for the first time.

Since then she's had 3 more surgeries...keepin mind these things take about 8-10 hours a peice and the risks of brain damage, heart failure, speech impetament or enormous...she's amazingly made it through all of them, and is a true testament to the talent among the neruosurgeons at WalterReed...so during each of these surgeries, I prayed to an unknown God.

College came and I went through this time in my life knowing many good Christian friends, who always invited me to church - they asked me to go see Bobby Bowden preach one day and I couldn't turn that down (I see him all the time around here...he's a popular preacher on Sundays and a lot of the churches try to grab him). I selected my major in my junior year when I transferred over to FSU...I selected Anthropology. Thus, my primary refute to Christianity is their lack of support for the theory of evolution - I've looked at their attempts to make it seem as though it's not possible, little pamphlets and brochures - "The Lies in Archaeology" and I know nothing to do but laugh when I see them. I have a hard time supporting a religion that is not science based...Church of Science dosn't count - lol

So that's basically my story - I'm still searching...I've been leaning more towards Buddhism lately tho - I've always loved the theory of becoming one with everything to the point where you, as an entity, no longer exist and are dispersed among all life.

I also have a post on this subject matter that has gotten moved to BTS regarding a book a co-worker gave me called "The Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel - maybe if you've read it you can post your thoughts there
www.belowtopsecret.com...

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun

Originally posted by dlbrandtGod loves men and women equally.

I hope I'm not repeating previous posts here, b/c I try to stay out of specific details with regards to the Bible, given my inherint lack of precise memory...but was it not Eve who was responsible for casting Adam out of Eden

I know this is such a cliche arguement - but why not...

It was Eve who had the conversation with the serpent. She took the first bite. But the Bible tells us that Adam was right there during the conversation but kept silent. There is even a book titled "The Silence of Adam", though I haven't had time to read it. We know that Adam heard directly from God not to eat of the particular tree. We don't know who told Eve, God or Adam. Anyway Eve quoted it right, but she also added to God's words on her own. That's when satan knew he had her. Obviously as humans we are curious, which is probably part of the reason for Adam's silence, his own curiosity. It's viewed that Adam's sin was greater since he had heard directly from God and maybe also because of his silence. Part of the reason, maybe even the main part was that if they had eaten of the tree of life afterward the would have remained in their sin forever.

Originally posted by Hecate100
Why do you automatically assume that just because people aren't Christian, they "hate the God of the Bible"? I don't. To me, he's just another mythological archetype, and not a particularly positive one at that.

I don't assume everyone hates the God of the Bible. Thats not what I asked. I asked why do people(obviously not all) hate the God of the Bible, and some who have no problem saying it answered.

I guess I have to make sure I put in every little word or things get taken out of context.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
please bare with me here i am going to try to address several things in the
order of their appearence.

one of the first renditions of this passage that i remember was stated a bit differently. " ...... and inOur image created We him."

more than the crusades the thing that comes to my mind is the Inquisition
which in one form or another lives to this day

Animals, plants etc. were not given a spirit.

on this point we will never agree. i believe all things have a spirit.

I believe some people have the wrong idea of who the God of the Bible is.

i think this would have been better stated as what you believe the God of the
bible to be.

heres a quote you might like:
"the only problem with christianity is the christians!"

here is another: " Jesus, save me from your followers."



I tried to do the best I could to edit this post and have it easily readable, but I'll be surprised if it turns out right.

I believe the we and us is God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I believe this is what the Bible teaches.

The crusades and Inquisition. Not everything man has done on this planet in the name of God has been God ordained. Wrong views of God will lead to wrong choices and actions by man.

We have to agree to disagree on the plant/animal spirit thing.


next thing down, I'm trying to understand a point here. 2 or 3 little words said my way can irritate someone else because they want me to say it a different way. That sounds like a dictatorship.

(Example)If I said satan is an extremely evil being and we can't comprehend how evil completely(which is what I believe)

Then someone makes a reply something to the effect, "You are totally wrong satans getting a bum wrap how can you say this, your ignorance has shown itself again(something I don't believe, plus this is their opinion)
I don't get all bent out of shape.

As a christian I try to be nice to everyone, at the same time I have to remain true to my convictions and state things the way I state them, We're all indivduals. Seems to me some get way to touchy to fast.

The first quote I have a response to, in somewhat agreement and someone posted a similar one earlier.

Don't make me the role model of christianity because I am still capable of failure, the role model is Christ.

The second one, real(emphasizing real) followers of Christ love you more than you will ever know

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
]
I think the Jehovah's Witnesses are a good example of why some people feel that way...And they in turn make those without faith afraid...Of course most Jehovah's Witnesses are actually great people - I don't know many, but a few - it's just their strict observations and lifestyles are sometimes unreal.

This is one of the points I am trying to make. Just because someone adds the name of God or Jesus Christ to their denomination doesn't mean they are real and sincere and know what they are talking about.

So I'll take this a step further, Don't blame the crusades or inquisition on me, I wasn't there.

I can't really hate someone I don't believe in.

To me Christianty is just another religion, and your god is just another mythical god. Don't worry though, you're god is in the same category as Jupiter, Thor, Athena, Izanami, Krishna, Ra and a hundred other gods and goddesses of dozens of other religions that I have studied, he's in good company.

I don't believe Jesus was the son of god, he was a damn powerful witch though and a great man o peace.

I don't take well to people trying to convert me to their religion though, regardless of what it is. I'm a witch, and I don't care who you worship so long as it doesn't hurt anyone and you don't force it down my throat.

Blessed Be
~Astral

Originally posted by ben91069
My biggest gripe about the God of the Bible is the obvious contradictions on just about everything. Some people claim that God never contradicts hisself, but this is simply not true. After handing down commandments on how to live righteously, God is seen always dictating ways to conquer nations including: Killing, rape, plunder - even on women and children. Does he not nullify his so-called commandments? Hmmm.

Just as you gave a site that exposes the contridictions of the Bible, I could do a web search and find a site explaining that there are no contridictions. People need to go to both then make up their mind.

EX. of a contridiction. Jesus and two theives were all crucfied together.

One gospel says both thieves were cursing and yelling condemnations at Christ.

One gospel says one was cursing and yelling at Christ and the other asks Jesus for forgiveness and to remember him when he entered into His kingdom. So now there is a contridiction in the Bible.

I see no contridiction. The Bible is meant to be read and studied and even pray to God for His insights into what is there.

The answer all 3 were going through the same experience and having the same pain. 2 thieves joined the crowd of onlookers and threw insults at Christ. At one point Christ looks to heaven and asks God to forgive all the insulters for, "they don't know what they are doing". This statement has no effect on the one thief and maybe even infuriates him more and he still looks at Christ through hatred. This statement shocks and destroys the hatred of the other thief. He thinks within himself, How can you ask for compassion on them. Look what they've done to you. They put me up here too and I'm getting yelled at too, and I want to rip them apart, but you, you ask for forgiveness. At that moment He recognizes that this is no mere man, if it was He would be acting like me. He's different, He is God. Then he becomes the first person in the history of the world to enter heaven through the blood of Christ.

There is no contridiction, one gospel writer picked up where the other one left off.

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
...
I saw the word Dogma......and I saw you say she, referring to God.....and I love putting words into pictures, so - lol

So how does believing God is a woman make you feel better. I noticed you didn't mention your father.

How is it so easy to get of track and go on ranting about what your belief of the day is? Maybe before replying we could all actually put some thought into the question and not go off half cocked and start rambling about nothing, or trying to prove each other wrong. I think our time frame for understanding is just too short, and that leads to a very narrow line of thinking. Please note that I didn't say you all, but I did say us. I think the question is very good. I will try to respond in a way that gives a clear picture of what I am saying.

At age 6, I believed in God and Jesus and knew they loved me.
At age 12, I started wandering if God was real, but was still pretty sure.
At age 16, I didn't really care, and wanted to run my own life.
At age 18, I thought I might not like God and didn't understand how he
could let allow bad things to happen to me. Life wasn't fair
and it pissed me off. Maybe I thought I hated this whole God
thing.
At age 20, I thought maybe the metaphysical was the answer and that
God was more made up to control the masses. Keep us in
line by telling us we had to obey or else. Thats exactly how I
would control a world.....create a God, and make hell the
punishment for not obeying.
At age 24, I started to wander why everything was so negetive in my life
and why I keep feeling so controled. I wandered how I could
find answers, and I prayed. I also had my energy cleansed
and my psychic removed some bad spirits that were hanging
around. Dreams got bad, couldn't sleep, couldn't think
straight. Read about different religions and all kinds of stuff.
At age 26, I prayed again, I asked God to show me what I was doing
wrong, and I re-thought my whole life and the things that I
had done. Wasn't easy trying to remember all the bad things
I had done. Every person I hurt or neglected and every
negetive thing I had done. I asked God to help me find peace
in my life.
At age 27, I had quit: smoking, drinking, partying, sleeping with
whomever, cursing, getting pissed off & throwing things,
cheating, stealing, and in general hurting other people.
current, I have been married for one year, I have a 3 week old baby,
a job thats easy to handle, and basicly everything a guy could
ask for and more. I'm ready for the rat race world to be gone,
so everyone can actually live again. I wander how I ever
could have blamed my bad choices on God. I talk to God on
a daily if not hourly basis, and he answers all the questions I
have.
Today, I believe in God and Jesus and I know they love me.
I appreciate thier patience while I made my journey.