50 Facts Concerning 9/11 that Point Away from the OS (The Facts Speak For Themselves)

Originally posted by airspoon
The question that we should be asking, is if the vessel would have been sent to the bottom, would Israel have apologized or would the Egyptians have been denying it? Because their were survivors and witnesses (Soviets), the Israelis had to apologize and use the excuse that it was mistaken identity, which it clearly wasn't. One missile or torpedo strike and then realizing the vessel was American, I could maybe see. However, not a sustained attacked (over hours) against a modern US Navy vessel in crystal clear daylight with a huge flag while American radio freqs were jammed, all the while napalming the decks and straifing the lifeboats.

Oooooh, naughty naughty. The reason why there were survivors and witnesses is specifically becuase the Israelis ceased fire, and they didn't cease fire simply becuase they ran out of ordnance. Between the attack jets, the gun boats and god knows what else they had in the area, if Israel genuinely wanted to destroy the USS Liberty they would have done it.

Israel said it was a case of mistaken identity, they apologized, and they coughed up $$$$ in restitition. Other than abject paranoia over "the Jews are plotting to take over the world" claims, there's nothing you're presenting that shows it was anything more than that.

If a false flag could happen then (Gulf of Tonkin too), then it could surely happen in 2001 also, only that they would have had more time to plan accordingly and learn from the lessons of before.

...so your entire evidence that 10,000 secret agents planted secret controlled demolitions, faked crash sites, launched cruise missiles at the Pentagon, manufactured fake aircraft wreckage, planted fake black boxes, and god knows what else, is from something that happened in Vietnam some fifty years ago...?

Isn't that along the lines of, "You dropped the toothpaste on the floor this morning. Ergo, you must have AIDS?"

While I appreciate the significant effort that went into this post, and have long felt there needs to be a single thread on ATS that gathers all the evidence in one place, I don't necessarily think this is it. I'm also not a huge fan of the 'more is more' philosophy, and think Occam's razor should prevail in thinking on this subject. There are much more plausible potential answers to the questions of 9/11, that don't involve a deep dark journey down the rabbit hole.

This is conjecture, but it's well supported conjecture for anyone who knows history, so I'd ask members to consider some simpler truths in explaining the attacks:

1. The US Gov't has a long history of shady, secret spending on Black Ops type endeavours. At any given time there are vast unaccounted-for sums of money moving around in the budget - think $10,000 hammers. We've all seen that YouTube video of the congressman reporting on funding in the amount of 'classified' used to classified' the living 'classified' out of the dirty 'classified'. It's BAU.

2. The US Gov't has a long history of installing puppet governements out among the nations of the empire, as well as funding and arming uprisings against the governements they didn't install in nations they wish were a part of the empire.

3. There is a long history of groups of angry young men in nations worldwide, getting in bed with the US (who pretend to support their cause and promise them the moon and stars), who receive training and weapons from the US, fight in US driven proxy wars in their country (and Afghanistan is the perfect example) and once the usually sublimated US goals have been met, they get cut off at the knees, fostering much resentment.

During the US proxy war with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, the CIA trained thousands of Mujahadin in special ops tactics (these opertive were known in the CIA as 'The Base' or al-Qaeda). The US acted as friends to the Afghans, built schools, provided textbooks (printed in the US and loaded with pro-Mujahadin and US propaganda) and armed the fighters to the teeth - until the Soviets left. Once that occured, the US pulled the plug, ababdoned the country, left people to starve and die after having done the US's dirty work for years. All those children who grew up reading propaganda in their textbooks learned a new lesson about America. Fundamentalist elements of the population sought to undo that influence and formed the Taliban. All those CIA-trained warriors shared their knowledge with those schoolkids when they grew up. Twenty years later, you have a highly trained militia, with a huge sense of resentment, who are deeply link to the US intelligence community, and a rogue group of fanatics pushing strict Islamism down the throat of simple tribal people.

The US keeps building these Frankensteins, but no one seems to have a reasonable answer as to why, when they start running roughshod through the town, killing people, and knocking down buildings. There were plenty of warnings of imminent attack that were ignored at the highest levels, simply because the US wanted the attacks to happen. It provided the excuse to go back and slay the beasts they'd created in the region, and regain control. 9/11 was carried out, if intelligence is to be believed, by Saudis...not the Taliban, not the Mujahadin, and not by Saddam. But look where the wars are.

9/11 was an act of revenge pure and simple - a reaping of what was sewn. The US Gov't was complacent, not disorganized. They aided and abetted because wars without justification are unpopular, so they let TSHTF. What the level of involvement is exactly, we'll never know, but there's undoubtedly a lot in the shade on this one. Who actually carried out 9/11, we'll never know because there is widespread resentment against the US in that part of the world for their years of interference and betrayal. It could be any number of groups, and Intel and the MSM can not be trusted. All that's been acheived in the last decade of war in the middle east is the building of a new Frankenstein that will rear it's head sometime in the future.

With that said, imagine you are the governing power of an Empire that has stirred up trouble for nearly 100 years around the world (Great Britain falls in this category, but I'm refering to the US). Your main financial centre is a single group of buildings, on the vulnerable Eastern seaboard of your nation, in one of the highest profile cities in the world. In this same complex of buildings is headquartered CIA, FBI, and all manner of global financiers. Offices and basement vaults are stuffed with enough classified internal and external information as to cause absolute chaos in the wrong hands (or in the public's hands). Does it not stand to reason that there would be some manner of plan in place, to destroy and protect all of that secret information, files, hard drives, etc, in the event that there was an invasion or attack?

We already have reports from the official Ground Zero photographer of basement safes blown and documents burned and destroyed pre-collapse [other ATS thread]. There's plenty of evidence to support controlled demo in the case of all three buildings. I think it's pretty obvious the buildings were 'pulled', but it's pretty likely they were pulled for reasons other than complete and total involvement in the events of the day. Either way, it's not like the Governement is ever going to admit that certain buildings throughout the country are wired like showboats, in the interest of National Security - people would lose their sh*t - so again, don't expect any answers soon, because that's a reality that's not going to change.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

If a false flag could happen then (Gulf of Tonkin too), then it could surely happen in 2001 also, only that they would have had more time to plan accordingly and learn from the lessons of before.

...so your entire evidence that 10,000 secret agents planted secret controlled demolitions, faked crash sites, launched cruise missiles at the Pentagon, manufactured fake aircraft wreckage, planted fake black boxes, and god knows what else, is from something that happened in Vietnam some fifty years ago...?

Isn't that along the lines of, "You dropped the toothpaste on the floor this morning. Ergo, you must have AIDS?"

What I read was 50 questions that need to be addressed that haven't. Some of them even ignored.
What is that along the lines of?

Originally posted by Cassius666
I think its pretty much established that it were explosives that have torn both the towers to shreds and collapsed the WTC.

Truther lie not based on any facts or evidence

It has been established that WTC 7 did not collapse due to fire.

Note how the truther totally ignores the damage done to WTC 7 by the collapse of the other buildings!

We now know Mossad was riding dirty in a van full of boom

Yet another truther lie, no Mossad, no explosives!

We should build up on that

That is all that truthers do, build on a pack of lies and mistruths!

reply to post by dereks


No, that is all the Trusters do !

You build on a total pack of lies, none of which would or could stand up to ANY sort of scrutiny !!

Continously brushing aside the fact that damage does NOT mean total annihilation of said buildings...

All of your facts are lies, and this is why you never focus on any real issue !!

reply to post by GoodOlDave

Oooooh, naughty naughty. The reason why there were survivors and witnesses is specifically becuase the Israelis ceased fire, and they didn't cease fire simply becuase they ran out of ordnance. Between the attack jets, the gun boats and god knows what else they had in the area, if Israel genuinely wanted to destroy the USS Liberty they would have done it.

They ceased fire only after hours (1+ or 2 hours) and arguably because a Soviet war-ship steamed over the horizon, thus a witrness and the ship managed to squeeze a "mayday" to their fleet, thus a witness. They didn't simply fire, then realize it was an American vessel as they had hours and multiple passes from fighters and torpedo boats to see the humongous American flag or American markings on the modern warship.

Many of the survivors said that they could clearly see the pilots in the cockpits, implying that the pilots could even see the white skin and blonde hair of some of the sailors.

Again, the attack lasted for a very long time by both sea and air and it was clear, by the large amounts and types of munitions used and the duration, that they wanted to sink this vessel. They were also jamming the radio frequencies, American military freqs and when the surveillence ship was able to squeeze out a "mayday" call, a relatively close aircraft carrier launched fighters to rescue, before those fighters were forced back by Washington.

Dave, your excuse would hold up, only if they ceased fire within minutes or even a few bombs, straifs or torpedos but it doesn't because they forced to cease fire for a number of reasons. After all, when you are conducting a flase flag operation, you can't have it last all day with a multitude of witnesses and back-up of your target on the way.

After an hour plus of repeatedly firing torpedos, bombs, missiles, napalm and machine gun/cannon attacks from multiple platforms, it is clear that they were trying to sink that vessel. Furthermore, after machine gunning the life-boats, it is clear they they intended to leave no survivors (as well as the napalm). Had it not have been a state of the art vessel or had it not been for the very well-trained crew, that ship would have hit the ocean floor.

Israel said it was a case of mistaken identity, they apologized, and they coughed up $$$$ in restitition.

Oh okay, that means they are innocent and didn't intentionally target that vessel. How silly of us and the sailors. Do not the guilty often deny their guilt and even apologize? Furthermore, I highly doubt that relatively small restotution (and Medal of Honor) appeased to loss of life and the suffering endured by the sailors.

That really means nothing. They failed at bringing the vessel down and they were left with survivors. Of course they are going to apologize and offer restotution, they were of course our allies, politically speaking. Furthermore, of course they aren't going to say, "well sorry but we were trying to sink your ship so that you would back us in our war against the Arabs, since your government told us it would be difficult for them to include you guys in our war since we struck first."

No, they are going to claim it was mistaken identy, though I have no doubts in my mind that if that vessel would have went to the bottom and the sailors all dead, we would be thinking that the Arabs did it.

...so your entire evidence that 10,000 secret agents planted secret controlled demolitions, faked crash sites, launched cruise missiles at the Pentagon, manufactured fake aircraft wreckage, planted fake black boxes, and god knows what else, is from something that happened in Vietnam some fifty years ago...?

That seems to be your fairy-tale, not mine or anyone else I know of. I don't think I have ever heard anyone but you suggest that 10,000 agents planted secret controlled demolitions in the WTC, nor have I ever suggested that crash sites were faked, missiles were launched at the Pentagon, wreckage was fakes or black boxes were planted. That seems to be your nefarious and sad tactic to avoid intellectually debating the real issues. Your attempt at connecting me to outrageous claims is noted, though sadly so.

Furthermore, the no-planes and alien death-ray theories are just as absurd as WMD harboring, Saddam paid terrorists who are jealous of our freedoms, attempting an attack with 1/1,000,000 odds (est.) of succeeding and then succeeding, beating those odds with apparent ease, though the evidence against them is secret so the authorities can't show the American people or can't even explain their own implications. Then, three steel framed sky-scrapers apparently collapse (2 pulverize) with one of those not even being hit by an aircraft and it wasn't even relatively close (across the street) from the first two.

So, 19 cave-dwelling Arabs who are jealous of our freedoms, on a mission from Saddam who is harboring WMDs just seemed to shake authorities who had been spying on them, only to come to our country and be trained to fly right here, is just as absurd as alien death-rays or no-planes.

Instead of attaching those wild theories (which were probably disinfo in the first place, so that people like you could then dismiss intellectual debate by citing them) to anyone who logically dares demand evidence to what they are being told from an entity and people who have been caught lying before, is dishonest, disngenious and nefarious at best.


--airspoon

another fact
the first tower to collapse was the last tower to be hit by a plane.
It collapsed after less than 1 hour.

Did they press the wrong button?

8:46:40: Flight 11 crashes at roughly 490 mph (790km/h or 219m/s or 425 knots) into the north face of the North Tower (1 WTC) of the World Trade Center, between floors 93 and 99.

9:03:04: Flight 175 crashes at about 590 mph (950 km/h) into the south face of the South Tower (2 WTC) of the World Trade Center, banked between floors 77 and 85.

9:59:02: The South Tower of the World Trade Center begins to collapse, 55 minutes and 58 seconds after the impact of Flight 175.

10:28:25: The North Tower of the World Trade Center begins to collapse. 1 hour, 41 minutes and 45 seconds after the impact of Flight 11.

en.wikipedia.org...

it did fly at 950 km/h though, insanely fast at that low altitude.

I just wanted to say that you did a wonderful job on providing info and some backing for it. While a few are up for grabs in terms of interpretation and inclusion to 9/11 it nonetheless points to the massive oversight of the MSM and the citizens of the world who have painfully bought into the OS.

Lastly this ought to be stickied and kept at the top of the forum from now until the end of time.

Also one last thing I wanna say. GERALD IS A CLOWN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by GoodOlDave


YOUR WRONG..... SORRY. I personally WANT REVENGE FOR USS LIBERTY!!! I HOPE ANY ONE FROM ISRAEL CAN SEE THIS AMERICAN TYPING!

reply to post by airspoon


This maybe be premature... Why not write the "9/11 Commision Report, Truth Edition"

Star & Flag

reply to post by airspoon


airspoon,

Thank you for this thorough, artful post. As I comb through it, I can't help but still feel disturbed by 911, as it appears more and more suspicious by the day. In the words of Jess Ventura, "half the conspiracy theories lead to Haliburton." I agree that we absolutely need another investigation. The 911 Commission was the Warren Commission of this generation. Too many unanswered questions. And a dark cloud hanging in the distance...

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
... they can't even get an answer to the missing trillions from the DoD's budget.

There it is! The classic "self licking ice-cream cone". It never has to be debunked because it debunks itself.

Seriously. This is someone simply repeating, by rote, something they heard or read on some web site. Absolutely no thought whatsoever has gone into what that comment means. No thought whatsoever. No critical thinking skills on display here - heck, no thinking skills, critical or otherwise, on display. This is the most perfect example of why the Truther movement is nothing but and will remain nothing but comic relief in our lifetime.

"Missing trillions". Beautiful!

Listen trebor451, I don't know you been, but there were trillions missing.

www.youtube.com...

this is gonna take me days to get through. thank you for reprinting and reformatting this info for us here on ATS. we greatly appreciate your contribution of presenting such information!

I have not read all the "facts" yet but the ones I have, just confirm the common sense that is hiding behind the veils or government secrecy.

this is gonna take me days to get through. thank you for reprinting and reformatting this info for us here on ATS. we greatly appreciate your contribution of presenting such information!

I have not read all the "facts" yet but the ones I have, just confirm the common sense that is hiding behind the veils or government secrecy.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding the USS Liberty Operation.

Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty.[5] Some survivors, in addition to some U.S. diplomats and intelligence officials involved in the incident continue to dispute these official findings, saying the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was not a mistake,[6] and it remains "the only maritime incident in U.S. history where [U.S.] military forces were killed that was never investigated by the [U.S.] Congress."[7]

A - certain individuals involved still claim it was not a case of mistaken identity.

B - Never investigated

So we can choose to believe the corrupt government, or open our eyes to reality.

Originally posted by Hendrix92TheUniverse
Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding the USS Liberty Operation.

Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty.[5] Some survivors, in addition to some U.S. diplomats and intelligence officials involved in the incident continue to dispute these official findings, saying the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was not a mistake,[6] and it remains "the only maritime incident in U.S. history where [U.S.] military forces were killed that was never investigated by the [U.S.] Congress."[7]

A - certain individuals involved still claim it was not a case of mistaken identity.

B - Never investigated

So we can choose to believe the corrupt government, or open our eyes to reality.

So wikipeida is now a trusted source?? Oh Ok... please tell me more

Originally posted by solids0be

Originally posted by Hendrix92TheUniverse
Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding the USS Liberty Operation.

Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty.[5] Some survivors, in addition to some U.S. diplomats and intelligence officials involved in the incident continue to dispute these official findings, saying the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was not a mistake,[6] and it remains "the only maritime incident in U.S. history where [U.S.] military forces were killed that was never investigated by the [U.S.] Congress."[7]

A - certain individuals involved still claim it was not a case of mistaken identity.

B - Never investigated

So we can choose to believe the corrupt government, or open our eyes to reality.

So wikipeida is now a trusted source?? Oh Ok... please tell me more

How many websites do you want me to post?
Just give me a number, I'll oblige.

www.the7thfire.com...

www.real-debt-elimination.com...

reply to post by airspoon


Hi Air,
I'm glad someone has taken the time and determination to collate all the available and more, information into a coherent history..before it becomes re-written for good. Contrary to some posted observations by damage limitators, there are certain individuals who are comprehensibly culpable before and after 9/11, not just a bunch of dicks who did not know what was going to happen, or when or where. There are areas of hearsay, like the found black boxes at ground zero, only hearsay out of court that is, because it seems no-one was asked to testify to the commission, or did they? Either way the NTSB doesn't "know" about it. As for what had Iraq to do with 9/11, the words of G.W.Bush are on the ether, "Nothing"

reply to post by airspoon




Thank you Airspoon once again for bringing us productive information. And thank you Jon Gold.

I think you deserve your own ATS Forum. The Airspoon Forum.

Thanks again. It will be a long time to get through it all, but so far it is very well put together and well sited. I only found one link so far not working (30% family members questions answered) but the other 45 have, so I forgive ya.

Enjoy