N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

Originally posted by Morgil
Hmm..has anyone picked up on the fact that no US troops will be involved in this one? On monday's drill, I personally thought the main reason NK didn't retaliate was due to the US troops and UN observers, they couldn't risk killing any of those. That would isolate them from any sympathy.
Now with no US/UN involvement in these drills, the north may be more inclined to go for it. Intentional? Who knows? I hope i'm wrong though.

There will still be plenty of US armour around...
It's just that US defence is on holiday .

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by Morgil
Hmm..has anyone picked up on the fact that no US troops will be involved in this one? On monday's drill, I personally thought the main reason NK didn't retaliate was due to the US troops and UN observers, they couldn't risk killing any of those. That would isolate them from any sympathy.
Now with no US/UN involvement in these drills, the north may be more inclined to go for it. Intentional? Who knows? I hope i'm wrong though.

There will still be plenty of US armour around...
It's just that US defence is on holiday .

Aye, on thursday US troops will not be providing support in the exercise so the north wont be running the risk of hitting US troops, which would in turn mean US retaliation. I think that lil' Kim will be more at ease attacking a purely SK force.

Been reading this thread for awhile now, thanks for the constant updates and info Vitchilo!

Ok now in response to the no US troops taking part in the next set of SKorean Drills because of training holidays. We do have training holidays here in Korea. I know this because I am currently stationed at Camp Hovey (connected to Camp Casey) in Area 1. We have atleast one training holiday a month, and with the current holiday we have the next few days off.

Originally posted by kiloma
Been reading this thread for awhile now, thanks for the constant updates and info Vitchilo!

Ok now in response to the no US troops taking part in the next set of SKorean Drills because of training holidays. We do have training holidays here in Korea. I know this because I am currently stationed at Camp Hovey (connected to Camp Casey) in Area 1. We have atleast one training holiday a month, and with the current holiday we have the next few days off.

Thanks for that. My guess would be that SK scheduled it on your training holiday as a way of showing the north that they are capable of defending themselves without US involvement? Perhaps giving the finger to Kimmy after the "human shields" comments from the north? What's your take on it?

reply to post by kiloma


Well good then. Thanks for the info. So since you're in Korea right now... what is the mood there among the US soldiers?

Be safe!

New South Korean drills near land border keep tensions high

South Korea vowed Wednesday to “punish the enemy” as hundreds of troops, fighter jets, tanks and attack helicopters prepared massive new drills near the heavily armed border a month after a deadly North Korean artillery attack.

They start sounding like the North.

Can the spirit of Christmas defeat Kim Jong Il?
Maybe not, after all, Kim Jong Il has been a naughty boy!

To Morgil- My take on it is, if the South can show they are capable of doing their own full scale drills, without US help. It will send a clear message to the North that the South does not need the US to back them.

To-Vitchilo- The mood among the soldiers is pretty good overall. It was tense for awhile of course, but now its just something we deal with. Just go about our days, and the chain of command has kept it pretty relaxed overall, probly to keep morale up. Not to say we do not have some assets in place, that are actively watching the situation.

No problem with the info. I'll share what I can.

reply to post by kiloma


Last I heard troops were on ``no alcohol`` policy... because war could break out at any moment... are troops still under that order?

If so, that sucks... it's Christmas in two days...

reply to post by Vitchilo


We are no longer under any restrictions. So it should be a good Christmas (unless the North attacks, and well then drinking and Christmas will be the last of our worries at that point lol).

Originally posted by kiloma
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

We are no longer under any restrictions. So it should be a good Christmas (unless the North attacks, and well then drinking and Christmas will be the last of our worries at that point lol).

Good for you then. And if he attacks, just nuke Pyongyang and you can have your Christmas.

Or if the South could send a Silmido unit in the North to take care of things...

Good for you then. And if he attacks, just nuke Pyongyang and you can have your Christmas.

Or if the South could send a Silmido unit in the North to take care of things...


If only it was that simple sometimes lol. (It can be, but you know how politics complicates everything )

The Korean Height Gap - The Numbers Guy

One study of North Korean refugees compared to South Koreans of the same age found that South Korean young men were 2.3 inches taller than their North Korean counterparts, while the gap among young women was 2.6 inches. Meanwhile, among non-refugee boys and girls living in both countries between the ages of one and a half and six and a half, a separate study found that the height gap was around three inches (varying slightly by age and gender); between six and a half and seven and a half, the height gap was 4.9 inches for girls and five inches for boys.

donga.com

As of 2005, the average height of residents aged between 20 and 39 in North Korea is 154.9cm for females and 165.6cm for males. These numbers are much lower than those of South Korea where the average height is 159.1cm for females and 172.5cm for males. Records of the 1930s, the Japanese colonial era, say that the height of male in Northern Joseon was 166cm, which was 3.5cm higher than that in Southern Joseon, 162.5cm. North Koreans have maintained the same height while South Koreans have grown by 10cm. How big would the gap grow 10-20 years from now? We really might become two “different races.”

Didn't know that....but I guess I never really though about it... but it's quite obvious really... less food = less growth = smaller...

No wonder Asians in general are smaller than Europeans/Americans... there were always more food in the west... famines in Asia were common place for centuries.

North Korea might not have a mineshaft gap, but they sure as hell have a height gap.

NKorea is notorious for its provocation on the occasion of US holidays

the best way to draw attention and throw your jolly foe off guard. Then, how about a scenario as wild as an ICBM test or another attempt to put a ghost satellite in the orbit this winter? It would be a great way to put the finishing touches on the year rattled by the songun policy and still not dampen the mood for negotiations over nuclear arms material. Besides, it could make SKorea look like a total fool for all the drills designed to deter conventional, short-range assault. Kim Jong-un wouldn't mind having a satellite of his own circling alongside his father's, either, however imaginary that may be.

We'll see.

" At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. " DANIEL 11:40......

strange correlation between this and south korean multiple provocative drills....
Sincerely, Noth korea is not an innocent victim....but...something strange emanate from SOuth K.

Official: North Korea targets South Korea in propaganda drive

North Korea is retaliating for a November artillery attack -- with an onslaught of faxes to South Korea, an official said Wednesday.

Earlier this month, faxes started arriving at South Korean companies, South Korean Unification Ministry deputy spokeswoman Lee Jong-joo said Wednesday. The faxes blame South Korea for the November 23 artillery attack on Yeonpyeong Island.

"Responsibility for the attack lies with the South," states the fax, according to Lee. "Groups in the South should rise up against the South Korean government."

The propaganda war is on!

China replaces senior Foreign Ministry official

China has replaced a top diplomat amid a trend toward greater assertiveness in handling territorial disputes and participating in global organizations.

Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Zhijun took over recently as the ministry's Communist Party secretary, state media reported Wednesday, likely putting him in line to eventually take over from Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi. Yang was accused of being caught off guard when U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced at a security conference in Vietnam this year that Washington considered the peaceful resolution of South China Sea disputes as part of the American national interest.

So China is gonna be more aggressive.

Think North Korea is third world when talking about military? Think again.

North, South play cat-and-mouse with intelligence

North Korea kept a lid on its military response during the South’s Yeonpyeong Island live-fire exercise on Monday, but behind the scenes the two militaries jockeyed for position, according to South Korean military sources.

The South Korean Armed Forces had deployed unmanned aerial vehicles to monitor unusual activity from the North, but its military jammed the plane’s navigation system, rendering the aerial vehicle ineffective.

There was also intelligence that North Korea was preparing to fire antiaircraft missiles. A South Korean military source said that light beams to guide surface-to-air missiles had been detected on Monday at an antiaircraft base in northern Hwanghae Province, but no missiles were launched.

“The F-15K and KF-16 fighter jets were targeted. Mobile missile launch pads were continuously deployed, then removed; we thought these were tactics to throw us off,” the military source told the JoongAng Ilbo.

And people saying that the North did not attack because of US soldiers in the area...

Another South Korean diplomatic source said the fact that 19 U.S. soldiers were involved in the Yeonpyeong exercise was another reason North Korea did not attack.

Yep...

A massive article about the whole situation...
Korean Brinkmanship, American Provocation, and the Road to War: the manufacturing of a crisis

N.Koreans in China may seek defection to S.Korea: report

Better get them out of there before China captures them and send them back to NKorea.

Well this is interesting...

OPLAN 5030

In late May 2003, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld directed military commanders to develop a new approach for conflict with North Korea, Operations Plan 5030. The fact of the existence of OPLAN 5030 as well as details of this plan were first revealed in the 21 July 2003 edition of US News and World Report, in an article by Bruce B. Auster and Kevin Whitelaw.

Critics of the plans provisions claim that it blurs the line between war and peace. Under the draft plan, US Forces Korea would conduct pre-conflict maneuvers to draw down North Korea's limited military resources. This might place such stress on the North's military that it might provoke a military coup against the country's leader, Kim Jong Il.

Looks like it might be the South/US plan... after all the regime is not that strong right now...

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Looks like it might be the South/US plan... after all the regime is not that strong right now...

This is what I have been worried about for a couple of weeks now, and with every passing day, it looks like this is indeed what is happening.

The problem is that once you keep pushing and pushing, the other will push back and many innocents will suffer.

North Korea has signifigant missle resources ,if they have managed to mate even a low yield atomic weapon with one of them then the EMP card is a very strong ace in their pocket.
If the NKs really do have this technology, and there has been sufficient time for them to have produced same, then the war will be a game changer indeed, with the spillover affecting Japan and possibly even w coast North America.(alaska for sure).
There is some degree of cowboy diplomacy involved here, and it is looking more and more like a US instigated conflict.The brinksmanship being practiced is akin to poking a poison snake with a stick to see if it will bite....
Perhaps the actual financial position of the US and the shakey economy dictates that we get into another wasteful round of killing each other for the profits of the multinational corporations.

South-korea is holding a new major excerise this time using sharp-ammo 20 kilometers from the North-korean border

reply to post by Vitchilo


Well...gotta give it to Rumsfeld...that's a clever plan man. But it sounds like bull#...the N koreans are too loyal to little kim...and since we all know what the military industrial complex profits from...

Interesting tweet on the Chinese veiw and how it is being reported.


pdenlinger Paul Denlinger
by markmackinnon
Chinese news coverage of Korean peninsula situation very diff from US media; reports situation at prewar stage. China obviously concerned.

Been a member for a few years but post so seldom that I don't know how to do the inbeds and stuff. Sorry for the poor formating.