abduction senerios dont make much logical sense do they

why would aliens need to abduct? Obvously they are advanced in technology, enough to hide them selves so well from detection, control peoples thoughts, or erase them, fly across the universe faster than light speeds (assuming).
Why do they need to abduct people and do primitve medical type stuff, I mean really it doesnt make a whole lot of sense that they would be so advanced and yet their medical science is primitive 20 th century. Why all the constant probing, scooping, poking? We have the entire human genome mapped. We have all sorts of non evasive techniques and machines to get biological information.
Why the need for human pigs to test if on a molecular level DNA, organic chemistry, they all follow predictable laws and well understood.
Why do people only claim new agey spiritual metaphysical information when communicating with the abductors.
Why has it only been in recent decades that the abduction imagry is medical, technological, sci-fi?
When the space race began, popular culture became interested in outer space, the fear based horror stories of aliens and mad evil scientists became mainstream, with all the sci-fi moveies, comic books, media and such...so why only then people started to claim and expereince sci-fi type abduction?
Somethings fishy and its stinking up the whole place.

opinions? thanks.

Consider my idea:

What's something computers and technology may never be able to do?

Be conscious/ have intelligence.

What are the chances that our consciousness and intelligence are exactly like an alien being?

Can't be a large chance.

Getting to the point, our biology would be easy to understand and research, but would our mind? Our mind is probably the most complex thing we have, and as such, perhaps these routine experiments are just very large psychological research programs (which would imply you would want to stick with the same test subjects).

Wouldn't our psychologists be fascinated with another species with traits like ours, but were developed in a different way? I think so.

Isn't it odd that in abductions that typically the body won't function, but the mind does? I think so.


On the other hand, abductions could be just be a simple case of sleep paralysis. Oh well.

Perhaps its not a problem they have understanding our biology Maybe they are doing experments at the cutting edge of there technology and the humans are just the samples. They might be trying to understand something about us or themselves that is way beyond what we consider medical science.

Originally posted by unusedpheonix
Why do people only claim new agey spiritual metaphysical information when communicating with the abductors.

I've been making my opinion known on this paticular point for well over 12 years. The UFO community was bound to see an influx of new age inspired pseudo-religious fringe theorists and "researchers". The topic of the unknown always tends to draw out the less mentally stable elements of various communities.

It's all bunk for the most part. They mix a bit of their new age beliefs with Alien/UFO mythology anf suddenly they aren't channeling ghosts and ascended masters any longer...now they're "discarnate alien entities".

Anybody knowledgeable in topics of the unknown and paranormal can tell you that this new age mentality has slipped into all aspects of their communities, from the Loch Ness Monster to the Bermuda Triangle. New age flower children and crystal huggers bring their pseudo-psychology and quasi-spiritual "facts" and "truth" and immediately start communicating with whatever topic is at hand.

Sally was a major X-Files fan...she's also a Wiccan. She can contact aliens. 3 months later she tires of aliens and now you can find her dwelling in the Ghost Hunting communities claiming to speak to the dearly departed. 6 months after that she'll offer you an explanation of Bigfoot and it's religious beliefs.

It's the same no matter which paranormal or unexplained topics you go to. There's always going to be the fringe "thinkers" accusing skeptics and critical thinkers of "ignorance" and "close mindedness".

I think that the explanation for that probably works like the evolution of the craft descriptions over time. Back in the old days, all the alleged alien crafts were cigar or saucer shaped, now there are a lot more variants described. I feel that as the past century changed our technology, it changed the way we describe theirs. In that same way, an abductee 50 years ago would have described poking, prodding, and slicing, where as one today would most likely describe laser technology and brainwave control.

Could also be that maybe they're testing pain threshholds for humans, see how much pain it takes to make them black out, how much to kill them, how much pain on repeated occurances it takes to make them turn insane and report it on online message boards, that type of thing.

People who claim to have been abducted were most likely abducted by those involved in a highly secret government project. It wouldn't be difficult to do. Knock 'em out, shoot 'em up with psychoactive drugs and use the power of suggestion (a very powerful tool in the right hands) to make them think they are seeing aliens. What a perfect cover for their nefarious schemes and experiments. Only God knows - and those involved - what their purposes are. Probably some kind of genetic manipulation/testing or cloning effort.

edited

[edit on 27-7-2004 by IXRAZORXI321]

Originally posted by kaoszero
I think that the explanation for that probably works like the evolution of the craft descriptions over time. Back in the old days, all the alleged alien crafts were cigar or saucer shaped, now there are a lot more variants described. I feel that as the past century changed our technology, it changed the way we describe theirs. In that same way, an abductee 50 years ago would have described poking, prodding, and slicing, where as one today would most likely describe laser technology and brainwave control.

Or... The 'Alien' technology has evolved. I doubt 'their' technology would stay the same in 50 years.

Personally, I wouldn't be supprised if a lot of these so called abduction cases are in fact people being used in highly top secret government experiments - Many people think this is the explanation for mutilations - why not abductions aswel?
Of course it would be much more involved, as the government would have to implant the false thoughts and images into the victims mind.

I don't really have a solid oppinion about 'Alien Abductions' - I have read so many books on the subject - I don't know what to think, each book seems to have their own 'explanations' or theories. I just keep an open mind.

What I do know though, is that these abductees are experiencing *something* - whether it be mad government scientists, aliens, nazis or a sleeping disorder.

why would aliens need to abduct?

Yes, this is probably still one of the mysteries within the UFO/conspiracy , uhm, thing. It seems logical that they would do this once, abduct someone, make a complete "map" over the humans, and know enough. Just like the crop-circle phenomenon, somebody makes one, 10 other people make 20 more, and so it spread. This doesn't necessarily mean that every new "idea" (like an alien invasion movie, a scientific invention, etc) have to be influenced by "the real thing". Just like science is building new theories out of older inventions and results, so could very well imaginary people do. "Aliens have abducted me!" one say, another one make up a new theory "maybe the aliens use some sort of marking to know where their 'victims' are, like crop circles", someone hear this, and in the end, many things can happen.

Just like books, movies, games. Did aliens create all of them? Did all these games evolve completely isolated from any "influence" of older games? And so on...

fly across the universe faster than light speeds (assuming).

Even if they could travel with the speed of light, it would take them some time before they got anywhere. Space is enormous beyond imagination. However, they more probably (seeing from a more "humane" perspective) use a kind of gate technology to go anywhere.

Why do they need to abduct people and do primitve medical type stuff, I mean really it doesnt make a whole lot of sense that they would be so advanced and yet their medical science is primitive 20 th century.

Maybe it's like Spielberg's TV series "Taken" - they use us for some kind of biological experiment. Or, a more evil sinister plan - like in Dark Skies.

Why do people only claim new agey spiritual metaphysical information when communicating with the abductors.

Well, if they really were abducted, maybe that's how they view the world? Some people think the world is full of evil, deamons and that kind of stuff. Others think it's secret organizations like the Illuminati, and some think it is aliens. All of these people have different views on the world. And I think all of these people would also have different views on alien abductions.

When the space race began, popular culture became interested in outer space, the fear based horror stories of aliens and mad evil scientists became mainstream, with all the sci-fi moveies, comic books, media and such...

Actually, "sience-fiction", if one see it that way, have been here since a long time ago. Some of the first books that were released within the term "sci-fi" or "fantasy" was actually the book "Frankenstein", released in 1818. There were already talks about aliens and all kind of stuff in the 1930's - even before the secrets of WW2 ever showed up. Some of the first attempts to go to the moon was made in Japan, in the 1800's, but that failed of course (witnesses say they saw a big explosion and the body of the "austronaut" was never found).

Many of the claimed abductions and sightings could be seen, sometimes, years before the actual claim.

What's something computers and technology may never be able to do?

Be conscious/ have intelligence.

That is still under debate. A computer in the sence of harddrive and keyboard, probably no. But an artificial brain, composed of materials, not organic matter - I think that is possible. The "only" thing we have to do is to find out exactly how the human mind works.

What are the chances that our consciousness and intelligence are exactly like an alien being?

Can't be a large chance.

But nobody knows this. If these "grey" creatures exist, and if they are visiting us, then they probably are interested in us, in a way. Remember that the universe is one, "it" had a zero point (point of creation) - (big bang). Differences can be big, but in the beginning, they probably were not. There are surely many strange things out there - but if suns, planets and black holes all were created almost the same, how come intelligence can not?

Isn't it odd that in abductions that typically the body won't function, but the mind does? I think so.

But in most abductions people are unconscious. Wouldn't this suggest that they actually do know about our minds?

I think most people here know that originally the saucer shaped UFO concept came from Germany, an invention of a German scientist [although where he got the concept is a mystery, maybe he really did just think it up on his own]. But alien abductions do appear to be a phenomenon which has only recently come into the light, since Roswell.

Saying this though if you look into UFO history it is possible to find some strange parallels to what we call UFO�s and aliens today. I have looked a little in to the history of abductions and although there does not seem to be any like the abductions of today, there are accounts of people disappearing and of being abducted, but not by greys. Sorry no links im just going by what I�ve picked up in my general interest of the subject.

If it really were happening, then given the aliens advanced tech, there still would be reasons for them to keep monitoring the same subjects. One of those being the idea of a STARCHILD which if anyone knows any good links about the subject let me know [fact based stuff and theory�s].

I once saw a documentary about the making of Taken by Steven Spielberg. The story is about a couple of FBI agents who are involved over the years with the cover up of aliens and their attempts to interbreed with humans. Towards the end of the story there are two FBI agents who have a thing for each other and a couple who have been abducted all there life�s and who themselves are the results of alien interbreeding, and their sibling, the star child.

Spielberg said in that documentry that the story was as close to the truth as can be. Whether that was said for publicity or not is up to you to decide.

But what bugs me the most is the similarities between Taken and the Xfiles, which are, FBI agents involved from the beginning, Mulder and Scully who have a thing for each other, and who have both been abducted, and finally there child which in the end turns out to be some kind of super human interbreed with alien genes.

Sometimes I think TV can be a medium for telling the truth in so many other words but, without actually admitting it. Or maybe to implant in our minds, with the power of suggestion, scenarios to cover up things that the powers that be, from our own world, do. IMHO

Abductions make perfect sense logically. According to many books written by abductees their interest in us is biological. They have an atrophied digestive system, atrophied reproductive system, and self-induced minimalistic senses of emotion. Combine these attributes and you have a race destined for a theoretical extinction.

They need genetic code and many test subjects to get their race back on track. And here are we. Several billion of us only ~50ly from where they originated.

They also do tests on the things we eat, such as cattle and crops.

I don't know why people make assumptions about abduction topics when people out there have written entire books on such things. And most topics have very logical answers that could stand up to scientific scrutiny.

A breakdown of my own....

why would aliens need to abduct? Obvously they are advanced in technology, enough to hide them selves so well from detection, control peoples thoughts, or erase them, fly across the universe faster than light speeds (assuming).

Well, that seems to be the million dollar question.... There is some evidence to support that there is a need for genetic material. It has to be "farmed" because a copy of a copy, is just not as good as a copy of the original (thanks to Mike Keaton for that one)... Anyhoo, they've likely cloned themselves to the point that reproduction is a little dicey perhaps... But, trying to understand an "alien" motivation, is difficult as we have only our own frame of reference...

Why do they need to abduct people and do primitve medical type stuff, I mean really it doesnt make a whole lot of sense that they would be so advanced and yet their medical science is primitive 20 th century. Why all the constant probing, scooping, poking? We have the entire human genome mapped. We have all sorts of non evasive techniques and machines to get biological information.

And how often do we use these non-invasive techniques on our guinea pigs? Ahh, see, that's the problem...we don't, because we DON'T CARE about the test animals...just as they likely don't care about theirs....

Why the need for human pigs to test if on a molecular level DNA, organic chemistry, they all follow predictable laws and well understood.

Maybe they are silicone based, etc. or are just understanding our makeup... Maybe the building blocks of life are different in a different solar system....

Why do people only claim new agey spiritual metaphysical information when communicating with the abductors.

This is actually the minority of cases...

Why has it only been in recent decades that the abduction imagry is medical, technological, sci-fi?

Abductions are only prolific in recent decades...

When the space race began, popular culture became interested in outer space, the fear based horror stories of aliens and mad evil scientists became mainstream, with all the sci-fi moveies, comic books, media and such...so why only then people started to claim and expereince sci-fi type abduction?
Somethings fishy and its stinking up the whole place.

While abductions are more prolific in modern decades, they have still been reported in much earlier times and civilizations... Of course, in those days, they didn't quite have the news outlets of today, so if you didn't live in the same village, you likely never heard it.....

But what bugs me the most is the similarities between Taken and the Xfiles, which are, FBI agents involved from the beginning, Mulder and Scully who have a thing for each other, and who have both been abducted, and finally there child which in the end turns out to be some kind of super human interbreed with alien genes.

(SPOILERS)
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Well, the story in Taken was basically that the aliens were scientists, and did some meddling with humans because they didn't have feelings, like we do.

The X-Files, on the other hand, the aliens are really evil. It is still not clear who made the supersoldiers there, or what purpose they serve. The aliens could use the supersoldiers to multiply themselves how many times they wanted, because the supersoldiers can rebuild all of their tissue. It suggests that the secret society made them to serve them as soldiers in the invasion in 2012. However, we will find that out in X-Files the movie 2.
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(end of SPOILERS)

There is some evidence to support that there is a need for genetic material.

Gazrock, can you explain what evidence you're talking about?

Interesting discussion, I don't think we'll ever know why (If they are) they're abducting humans, maybe it's because (As it's been said) the aliens don't have feelings like we do, or maybe it's just scientific study, just as we capture and study lesser animals on our own planet.
For instance, we stick microchips in cats, dogs and other animals, then the owners take them back home, that's really no different to the aliens microchipping us and sticking us back where we originally came from.
If they're able to effectively paralyse a person in their own home, abduct them, stick them on an operating table and operate while the person is awake, I think that shows they either have no idea about pain or simply don't care.

Makes you wonder though, if a being has no emotions or feelings, do they suffer pain?
If they do, what response would it provoke?

If you assume that all of this is actually real, and don't question that people are making this stuff up, then it's clear that they do have some concern for us, especially as a whole. More concern than we would show to towards an animal used in an experiment. They don't seem to want the human race as a whole to develop a hatred towards them.

1) There is not much evidence to suggest anyone has died as a result of abductions. There have reported cases of radiation poisoning when people come close to a craft in motion, but this wasn't necessarily during an abduction.

2) They take great care to make sure the events are not witnessed by many people.

3) They attempt to erase any memory of the event from the abductees mind.

They are being sneaky about all of this, but for who's benefit? Ours or theirs?

Gazrock, can you explain what evidence you're talking about?

I thought these were fairly well known, but then again, I'm kind of a geek about this... Mostly accounts as mentioned in the Leer document, Yellow Book, and a smattering of government documents (that are still pending authentication of course)... majesticdocuments.com is a good source, and no doubt the Leer letter should be easy to find in a quick search... I don't really have the luxury of doing the legwork to pull it up right now.... I said it was evidence, not "great" evidence, hehe.....

1) There is not much evidence to suggest anyone has died as a result of abductions. There have reported cases of radiation poisoning when people come close to a craft in motion, but this wasn't necessarily during an abduction.

Not much, but there IS evidence and accounts of this... Can't remember the base, but I remember an account of a soldier that was basically turned inside out just about.....and that's just off the top of my head. Then there is the pilot who died chasing the UFO, etc.

2) They take great care to make sure the events are not witnessed by many people.

True, but this could be to protect their secrecy... A murderer takes the same care, but I'm not too keen on his motives either....

3) They attempt to erase any memory of the event from the abductees mind.

Yes, but they have to know that this is imperfect at best, yet they seem to go right on doing it...

They are being sneaky about all of this, but for who's benefit? Ours or theirs?

Most people are only sneaky when its in THEIR best interest, if their aims were benevolent, I'd think they'd be more open about it....

Originally posted by mpeake

There is some evidence to support that there is a need for genetic material.

Gazrock, can you explain what evidence you're talking about?

There is none. If there was solid evidence we wouldn't have to ask Gazrock to provide further clarification lol...why can't people just be honest and make it known that they're simply speculating and not declaring?


[edit on 7/2/2004 by Sinobyte]

I thought that WAS obvious... Testimony IS evidence... Of course there is no HARD evidence... If there was, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, as aliens would be in their own sitcoms right now!

Even I admitted that the evidence isn't great, just that some did exist... Sheesh!!!

Fine, here's a quickie excerpt from the Leer Document...(found in a 30 second Dogpile search...do I have to do everything?)

The EBE's have a genetic disorder in that their digestive system is atrophied and not functional. Some speculate that they were involved in some type of nuclear war or possibly on the back side of a genetic curve. In order to sustain themselves they use an enzyme or hormonal secretion obtained from the tongues and throats of cows or humans. (Note: cows and humans are genetically similar. In event of a national disaster cow blood can be used by humans). This secretion is mixed with H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) and another substance and is either spread on the skin, or the hands are dipped in the solution. The body then absorbs the mixture and excretes the waste back through the skin.

The cattle mutilations that were prevalent throughout the period from 1973 to 1983 and publicly noted through newspaper and magazine stories and included a documentary produced by Linda Howe for the Denver CBS affiliate were for the collection of these secretions and other items. The mutilations included genitals taken, rectums cored out to the colon, eyes missing and the tongue and throat cut with extreme surgical precision. The incisions were made cutting between the cells, actually separating molecular structure. This is why no blood was found at all, yet there was no vascular collapse. This has also been true in human mutilations, one of the first ones of which was Sgt. Jonathan P. Louette at the White Sands Missile Test Range in 1956, who was found three days after an Air Force Major had witnessed the abduction of Sgt. Louette by a "disk shaped" object about 0200 one morning. His genitals had been removed, rectum cored out in a surgically precise "plug" up to the colon, eyes re-moved and no blood remaining, with no vascular collapse. From some of the evidence it is apparent that this surgery is accomplished in most cases while the victim, animal or human, is still alive. The various parts are taken to various underground laboratories, one of which is known to be 2-1/2 miles northwest of the small New Mexico town of Dulce, 1 Km deep inside the Archuletta Mesa. This jointly occupied (CIA-Alien) facility has been described as enormous, with huge tiled halls that "go on for ever". Several ink drawings of photos taken inside the facility were recently released as the "Dulce Papers". The photos show large vats with pale meat being agitated in solution. An abductee in regression recalled "large test tubes with humans in them. I saw a baby in another".

Now, I could look for longer, but I've got work to do....

Originally posted by electric
I don't know why people make assumptions about abduction topics when people out there have written entire books on such things. And most topics have very logical answers that could stand up to scientific scrutiny.

You don't know why people think critically and question abduction topics simply because books were written on the topic?

Books were also written on a mysterious place called Lemuria or Mu and many New Agers still believe it. Of course it was a fictional place created to explain how Lemurs came to live and thrive on Madagascar and the Comoro Islands. It's funny...some people even claim to speak to Lemurians and be incarnations of Lemurians. Simply because many books were published on Lemuria doesn't make it a real place nor does it make the people who believe in it truthful.

The abduction phenomenon is real, but nobody really has proof it's truly aliens. As many have said, it very well could be unauthorized experiments being conducted by an unseen agency, not neccessarily from the big bad U.S. government.

I would also like to point out that abduction topics are able NOT to stand up to scientific scrutiny.