"Unthinkable": What would you do? Could you do the "Unthinkable"?

If you want to dodge the question completely you could try to say that, but the question is formed in such a way that there are two logical ways to answer it. This is like Bill Clinton trying to define "is".

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


why would god let this happen?

arent there still some of the ignorant few who still hide behind the belief that god controlls everything? If god and heaven are real what REASON do you have, being a believer of such stupid pitifull nonsense, to torture or murder this person when its all god choice in the end and the good go to heaven?

Being an athiest, i would not torture him untill i knew he had done such a thing. If that doesnt work then people just die..... and you ahve to put more controlls on access to the techonolgy and information that created teh disaster.

Originally posted by 547000
If you want to dodge the question completely you could try to say that, but the question is formed in such a way that there are two logical ways to answer it. This is like Bill Clinton trying to define "is".

If I am in this position, I clearly have quite a lot at my disposal.

Things like drugs which loosen the mind and tongue.

I would know things like, if you are a person that is willing to blow the entire world up, you probably aren't going to be moved by a little raping of your daughter. If you are willing to blow the area they are in, then following through on torturing them isn't going to do that much. Particularly when you know exactly when it is going end. Soon, when the bomb goes off.

See, two options are just STUPID. Try and have a Slightly More Nimble Mind.

I have 5 double rum and coke in me, and I'm working on my sixth - and I still out think you. Seriously man. Brighten Up.

reply to post by Aeons


In the end, after all the questions, it is STILL a yes/no answer. Could you do it, or couldn't you? If you don't want to answer, say so, instead of assuming you're smarter than people who answered the question.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Aeons

 

In the end, after all the questions, it is STILL a yes/no answer. Could you do it, or couldn't you? If you don't want to answer, say so, instead of assuming you're smarter than people who answered the question.

I guess the answer then is - I could find a better way when half tanked and you can't even conceive of anything other than yes or no on a good day.

en.wikipedia.org...

Enjoy your Fallacy of Logic.

reply to post by Aeons


So answering a yes or no question is a fallacy to you? Or does the fallacy only apply to questions which are hard for you to ethically answer?

Hey, bad news, OP. Your question is a fallacy. There's a wider range of answers than "Yes I could" or "No I couldn't". This poster has enlightened me with her superior intellect.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

Simple human instinct. What guarntee do you have it wouldn't work?

Torture is counterproductive.

1. I've been tortured. They could not get me to talk at all, because the fact that I was being tortured made me so furious I would not do anything the torturer wanted.

2. When people do crack and talk under torture, their aim is to stop the torture.
Therefore telling the torturer what he seems to want to hear becomes more important than telling the truth.
So nothing said under torture can be trusted.

3. A terrorist wanting to set off nukes is not a normal person, and is unlikely to see the fates of his family members as a reason to stop killing millions.

Short answer: NO.


Anyone who thinks that torture is, or would be, acceptable, or even necessary, in a situation like the one proposed is still locked in a very Western mindset.


The captive is a fanatic, he fully believes in the correctness of his actions. The welfare of his loved ones, in his mind, is assured ONLY by his actions; anything his captors do to him and/or his family just goes to prove the righteousness of his "mission".



If you think that even the most heinous treatment could "break" some one like that, you are fooling yourself.


It is not about his safety or discomfort. Nor the safety or discomfort of his family which, in his mind, are merely extensions of himself, and therefore, one and the same.



For lack of a better way to explain it, it is about what God (whatever god he cleaves to) wills.



Imshallah!

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Aeons

 

In the end, after all the questions, it is STILL a yes/no answer. Could you do it, or couldn't you? If you don't want to answer, say so, instead of assuming you're smarter than people who answered the question.

I guess the answer then is - I could find a better way when half tanked and you can't even conceive of anything other than yes or no on a good day.

en.wikipedia.org...

Enjoy your Fallacy of Logic.

Aeon, by drugging the person and finding a better way means you are not torturing them. By using any other method, you are not torturing. In essence you are saying that you would find a better way than torturing. This means no you would not torture.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Then why does those pesky Arabs appear pissed when we bomb their homes?

It's because of something called conscience and knowing right from
wrong. Would you treat your own grandmother in this way ?
There is no justice when morals are negated.

As for the OP, you don't need to be a genius to know that
what goes around eventually comes around.
It's a matter of having a conscience, so as such things do not
get out of hand in the first place.

We live in a savage world. If you don't play with that very simple very true fact in mind you will lose, everytime.

What a sad way to live. I'm glad I don't know your gang.
and I don't want to know them.
It's your type of mentality that makes a good thing into a
hellish society.
. . . something we all can do without.

_______________

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I would not touch his family. He is the reason for the deaths, not his family.

Him..... Dont we have sodium penathol for this sorta thing? If that didnt work, then yes, I would VERY slowly torture this person untill he spilled every bit of information, while keeping him alive as long as possible. This is where I would be spending any free time I had thinking of what ever tortures I could that caused the most pain and the least harm. But... Only after the drugs didnt work.

One life does not compare to millions of innocent people, if that one life is the one destined to killing these millions of people. Torture cruel and unusual punishment? So is killing innocent people...

Thats just my take. Show me the instruments of pain and lets get to work!

This is comming from a man who would not hurt a fly. I could never take a life. But in this case.... Nothing more needs be said. But I would not go as far as torturing his family. Besides, in his mind, his family are making the same sacrifice. But, I "might" let it be known to him that his family will sit right there watching me torture him... this part requires some serious thought. Maybe a mention to him but probably wouldnt go through with that part of it. Perhaps mention just to see his reactions, then if there is a reaction, there may be progress.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Why in the world would you eat a bullet?

I would do whatever was necessary. I do believe that we have the ability to make him tell us anything without resorting to hurting his family. Regarding him, I would have no mercy and no remorse. But, seriously, I'm a nice guy, just ask my mom.

I love the 'morality' of the masses.

I would like to see how long that morality would last once the safety net of our tolerant society has been removed.

Extreme situations certainly do demand extreme measures.

My 'morality' says, no we shouldnt kill or torture.

However, put me in that situation...I think I would very much question everything I had been conditioned to believe.

The biggest issue for me would be breaking the skin on someone....then living with seeing that in my head everyday after.

I know a lot of ex-special forces guys who have to live with their decisions everyday - they replay the 'kills' in their heads and dont feel glory from it.

However, their comfort is that they killed 'evil' people - terrorists, drug lords etc.

I say we need to play dirty with people who are prepared to build terrorist bombs. We may be sinking to their level...but to stand up for what we believe in and protect our 'tolerant' way of life...I believe that some members of our society need to do this...and for that I am grateful to them.

Every day on this planet is a battle for resources between humans...every one of us is complicit in the 'system' that maintains the status quo. We're all murderers whether we admit it to ourselves or not.

We kill, but not always by our own hand. Humans are not nice, but it's nice to think that we are...it's nice to think that we are moral.

I believe we have a long way to go. This issue of torture and violence will not change in my lifetime - in fact, I believe it's likely to become worse.

Moralities and belief systems are colliding. Sit back and turn the other cheek while your friends and family live in fear of terrorist bombings? Not me.

I was on the phone to some of the guys in the WTC as the planes hit. I lived in London when 7/7 happened. Was ten mins off one of the trains.

I am not prepared to sit back and cite morality when whoever is on the other side is prepared to maim my friends and family.

Turning the other cheek is admirable...but not realistic.

After reading this thread I feel the overwhelming position is one of torture and pain to extract the result...... I think that although some 'fear' induced by the threat of torture IS required, you have to ask yourself what is the Guy's motivation and ultimately belief system....... If he believes that when he dies he will be rewarded with 1000's of virgins and rivers of honey then that should be the 'Target' of any torture or interrigation, mind altering drugs etc etc....

Physical pain and blood etc etc can be overcome in one's mind, IF you are strong enough but a 'doubt' about what you believe in starts to unsettle the foundations !!!!

Any murder or killing of family members or bretheren only acts as a strengthen of resolve........

Just my thoughts and experiences.....

Regards
PurpleDOG UK

I would get Cal Lightman on the case.

I, unfortunately, would do anything to save the lives of billions of people. Then take a bullet to the head, i don't think that i could go on knowing what i did. Selfish i know.

I would not care about masses - I would leave the city and that would be end of it.

Everyone dies sooner or later.

reply to post by FIFIGI


OP, depends what your idea of "unthinkable" is.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by FIFIGI

 

OP, depends what your idea of "unthinkable" is.

Unthinkable is to pay attention to the whole thing. If it would be on radio, I would with no emotions whatsoever move out and wait for explosions.

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


You are right. But torturing them and making him think that you'd be willing to kill them. Quite painfully, would make a statement. Killing them outright wouldn't work.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


You need to credit Depeche Mode with those lyrics as they are copyrighted.. There's something about that in the T&C's.

On topic....

I would do the unthinkable if there was no doubt I would get a truthful answer. However the unthinkable didn't really turn up roses in the movie. A bomb ended up going off so perhaps it's not the way to go after-all. Who really knows what the right thing to do in such an event would be.

IRM