If WE Exist, Than THEY Have To Aswell

There is something I must put in all non-believers or skeptics thoughts. ( I'm not speaking about species that HUMANS claim to be in contact with or visiting this earth)

Somewhere in the universe there is a planet with an intelligent species of primitive humanoids that have recently discovered the ability to leave their own planet to explore there solar system, and eventually form colonies on their neighboring worlds. This species calls themselves HUMAN, and they have no other allies or contacts at this time, they are on there own.

The point I'm making is that Humanity cannot simply be the only species on that intelligent species list, the universe is just to big to make mistakes/anomalies.

The very basic fact that you are alive and intelligent enough to read this thread means that intelligent live has happened once, so we know the conditions to form intelligent life happen, we were basically a lucky roll of the dice.
So If intelligent life can happen here, than that must mean it can happen somewhere else, this thing we call life was not something unexpected to the universe, it was the universe's plan figuratively speaking, for if not for intelligent species, what is the point in the universe existing in the first place? There is no reason for this universe to be in existence other than to create intelligent species to observe its greatness and inhabit the stars, period. And I challenge anybody to prove me wrong.

Think of it people, we were BORN to observe and travel the universe, if we were born just 1000 years ahead of our current technology, traveling the stars would be common, so common in fact it would be like driving the car to a friends house for a visit, to ancient man that feat would seem unimaginable, but now that we have the technology to do it, it is common, which is exactly how it will be for space travel.

I feel held back by my species technological limitations, If I could choose I would not be talking to people on forums, I would be traveling to some star to discover inhabitants and maybe do some DNA tests to fool around with.

If we put all our believes aside, we all have 1 thing in common, we have a bound to nature and every single piece of matter, and with the other species that are existing right now, don't you want to know more about THEM? Isn't it like an instinct to know everything you can about nature and the living?

Again I'm not saying any of these species are visiting this planet or in contact with us, I don't see why they are not, its certainly possible. But what I am saying is that If THEY do not exist, than WE cannot exist, for to somebody out there WE are considered aliens since we know how to travel space. To say they cannot exist is like saying you don't exist, we obviously know we exist, therefore they must exist.

you are saying this of course with the assumption that we actually exist?

nah jk. i think you just made the case for christianity though.

A while ago I created a thread that was based on the Fermi Paradox entitled Where is everyone ? The mystery remains ....

I came at it that the 1st technologically advanced race to come into existance within our galaxy and to develop space fairing capabilities, then it should be almost inevitable that they would have continued to expand outwards and colonize our entire galaxy within a very short period of time (astronomically speaking). Evidence of such a technological soceity should be ubiquitous throughout the galaxy and be very visible and obvious.

And yet no such indication has ever been observed ... not even in the slightest ... leading to the conclusion that we may indeed be THE most advanced species technologically.

reply to post by Quasar_La-Zar


What is we are simply the first planet to have life exist?

That is possible.

reply to post by tauristercus


Can I then ask how would you even begin to detect other species inhabiting a planet? We can detect planets by the pull on their star it creates, its hard to get an actual photo of a planet. If you mean we cannot detect satellites or their radio communications that is taking the assumption that they have our same technological abilities, that they have not learned how to communicate without radio waves and they need satellites for whatever reason, Which I believe they have advanced further than our primitive ways.

We are searching for species that use our technology, which I don't believe we will find in our galaxy. Which is why I believe SETI is a pointless search.

Edited to add, that is also assuming said species needs to expand throughout the whole galaxy, which I believe would be 1 an impossible thing to achieve due to the fact we have billions of stars in our galaxy, and 2 that they would reproduce, its very possible that once death is able to be cured/stopped, the need for reproduction might vanish.

reply to post by atlasastro


That is what this thread is about, when you get a DNA test on a child, you accept that 99.9% accuracy, so why are we clinging onto the 0.01% that we are the only ones out there?

We know about life existing thousands of feet underground off of gasses, those same lifeforms could be inhabiting all of our moons/planets in our solar system.

Life exists everywhere it can, as we have learned from our planet.

There are hundreds of trillions of planets in our known universe, there is nothing special about our star, or even our planet, there are trillions of planets just like ours with water and oxygen, simple life has to be very common. Intelligent life on the other hand has to be quite rare, but on the bigger picture not too rare.

Statistically its possible that for every galaxy, there is 1 planet with an evolved race, we know that due to the fact were alive that this galaxy is inhabiting atleast 1 evolved species, which makes this claim possible.

We must remember that there were billions of years before we came into existence, its likely that a planet like ours could of formed and taken shape way before our planet has, therefore they have had enough time to become very very advanced.

reply to post by Quasar_La-Zar

Think of it people, we were BORN to observe and travel the universe, if we were born just 1000 years ahead of our current technology, traveling the stars would be common, so common in fact it would be like driving the car to a friends house for a visit, to ancient man that feat would seem unimaginable, but now that we have the technology to do it, it is common, which is exactly how it will be for space travel.

You just stated the Fermi Paradox succinctly.

In just a century or two at the most, humankind will have the capability to cross space and being the expansionist species that our history shows us to be, then we WILL expand outwards and colonize EVERY suitable start system given enough time. This is almost a given.

So if such is the likely future for humankind, imagine what the galaxy will look like in just say, 10,000 years time. There will be clearly visible and tangible evidence of our presence virtually everywhere you look. We will not hide our presence ... nor would we be able to. Any other technologically capable alien species would only have to look outwards into space from their planet and see the impact that we humans were having on the galaxy.

And yet, here we are, sufficiently technologically to investigate the vast universe that surrounds us and what do we see or hear ? Absolutely nothing ... nada ... zip ... zero. For all intents and purposes the rest of the galaxy is barren and empty of any species that is technologically more advanced then us.
All it would have taken was for one alien species to be just a few hundred or a few thousand years more advanced scientifically than us and the galaxy would have been theirs for the taking ... just as it appears it will be for humankind in the very, very near future.

So the question once more is .... where is everyone ?

Originally posted by Quasar_La-ZarStatistically its possible that for every galaxy, there is 1 planet with an evolved race, we know that due to the fact were alive that this galaxy is inhabiting atleast 1 evolved species, which makes this claim possible.

You run into a statistical snag however. Just like you cannot make a curve out of a single point, you cannot claim life in the universe with only us as reference.

reply to post by tauristercus


You're still not answering the question of what these signs would be, and have not taken into consideration that our current technology is very primitive, Its like being in the jungle, when in the jungle you remain quiet so that a predator species does not find you, our current technology is not very quiet, its like using loudspeakers to talk to each other, letting anybody that is near you able to hear and find you. Its very possible that they have advanced enough to be quieter, to use different means of communication that we are using/searching for. Am I getting through to you yet? Your still assuming that we would continue to expand forever, which I do not believe is the case.

reply to post by merka


No, but if we are alive, that means the conditions to form life, and intelligent life indeed happen, and seems to happen whenever the conditions are met.

I use the same arguement often.

Even if the odds are 1 in 1000 trillion; things can either happen or they can't. If something is possible at all it is possible an infinite number of times.

I don't disagree with the idea that we might be it at the moment for this entire galaxy. Maybe even for a radius of several galaxies. Life may be everywhere but it's overwhelmingly bacteria with plants and insects making up most of the rest.

Now and then a world has fish and cattle.

We may not be alone, there may be in fact trillions of advanced species out there, but technological intelligence may only happen once in every 10 000 galaxies.

On the other hand, the most basic fact about us is that we are predators. Any planet where the predator/prey situation arises has the potential to develop a race like us. As an ironic twist, it is the existence of a weak predator that makes it even more likely, Bears, big cats, sharks...any apex predator...they have to be smart enough to learn new things but it is thier body that gets the job done.

Man is lunch if not for our technology. The need to not be lunch is what drove us to technology in the first place (second of course was to get lunch, a meal who's discovery we still celebrate to this day.).

Either way though, there are others out there, Will we ever meet them is however less certain.

Personally, I hope they're vegaterians.

Perhaps once any species reaches a certain point exponential technological growth puts them in control of power that none have yet had the wisdom to handle.

Perhaps none have been able to successfully make the transition from competitive predator to effective Demi Gods without unmaking themselves in the process.

This would mean civilisations flare and disappear independently separated by time and distance. None lasting long enough to meet another. A plausible but depressing answer?

Originally posted by [davinci]
I use the same arguement often.

Even if the odds are 1 in 1000 trillion; things can either happen or they can't. If something is possible at all it is possible an infinite number of times.

Personally, I hope they're vegaterians.

I could not agree with you more, and the basis of this thread, if it happens once, it happens infinitely.

reply to post by justwokeup


It's very possible, I mean there are religions based off of aliens coming here and claiming they are god, just as an example.

Originally posted by justwokeup

This would mean civilisations flare and disappear independently separated by time and distance. None lasting long enough to meet another. A plausible but depressing answer?

I agree with this whole heartedly. The universe and time being presumably infinite means that the chances of two species that have advanced technologies meeting must be slim... That's not to say 'they' aren't out there or even visiting us.

As someone pointed out if we used Earth's ratio of intelligent life V's non intelligent life to calculate the chances of there being intelligent life elsewhere then then add in the 'time factor' then the odds are reduced considerably.

reply to post by tauristercus


Thats an interesting angle to come at it from. But dont you think that limiting your thinking to this galaxy is a little bit restrictive? I mean theres a hell of a lot more out there than the Milky Way!

reply to post by Quasar_La-Zar


NO FOOK NO !

your entire logic is that apples [ humans ] exist , therfeore oranges [ extra terestrial civilisations ] must exist

see the falacy ?

the existance of extra terestrial civilisations ios highly probable - but it is not a certainty , and it is cetainly not a foregone conclusion

and using our existance as " proof " that other civilisations exist is simply assanine

reply to post by ignorant_ape

Well using that logic

The fruit either exists an infinite amount of times, or it does not exist at all.

Does only 1 part of the world produce 1 kind of fruit?

To know that the apple is existing, would actually lead me to presume that there are indeed other fruit....

--__--

reply to post by Quasar_La-Zar


Something happening once doesn't mean that it happens exactly an infinite number of times.

We know that life appeared on Earth (regardless of how it appeared), we know Earth has the conditions for life as we know it to appear, but we do not really know if there are other planets in which the conditions for life, either as we know it or not, existed some time in the past or exist today. If there are planets in which those conditions existed or exist we don't know if that "opportunity" was used and if life really appeared.

The fact that some guy is writing at his computer doesn't mean that there is another guy writing at his computer in another place, but it's very likely.

The fact that some guy looking like me and dressed like me is writing this at his computer doesn't mean that there is another guy somewhere, looking like me and dressed like me writing the exact same thing.

It's still possible, but highly unlikely. The more variables used in this "equation" the more difficult it is for it to happen somewhere else.

But it doesn't mean it's impossible.