Who is winning the War On Terror?

Originally posted by sceptical me

Originally posted by sceptical me
The people winning the war on terror are the ones who intitiated it. I say this because the stated obective is a mere mask for the true intentions of the authors of the war on terror. The war on terror was in fact a war on the free people of the world. A war to strip the average human being of any vestige of dignity, any imagined vestige of freedom, a war to profit those in postions who could profit from it (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, et al).

They are winning this war and we are letting them win! True terrorists are a far less menacing threat than those that instigated this war. The same as the war on drugs. The war on drugs does nothing more than afford employment opportunities to hundreds of thousands and profit for the de facto law courts we now have in place and those who profit from private prisons.

The war will never be truly won until we are chipped and on our knees. Do we have any soldiers amongst our ranks willing to fight the true enemy in the war on terror?

Corporal Sceptical me steps forward, proudly and defiantly.

Is there anyone else out there who is sick to the stomach of all this # and willing to stand on their feet and fight? An old expression that still rings true for me: It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees. I live and breathe that philosophy whilst advocating non violence... for the moment!

Shucks, I don't remember typing #, I thought I said #! Is this site so conservative that even a common expletive deleted such as that can be seen as offensive? Boy, am in the wrong place. Excuse me while I go back to my kindergarten pals and say all the bad words, just for the #s and giggles!

reply to post by EFGuy


TPTB figured out along time ago that fear is the best tool for control. What else would make people give up the very freedom that was being protected.



FEAR is the path to the dark side. When terrorism wears off it will be something new like a disease or economic turmoil. But one thing will remain FEAR.




Apathy is what lets fear grab hold.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
reply to post by EFGuy

 

TPTB figured out along time ago that fear is the best tool for control. What else would make people give up the very freedom that was being protected.



FEAR is the path to the dark side. When terrorism wears off it will be something new like a disease or economic turmoil. But one thing will remain FEAR.



Apathy is what lets fear grab hold.

Star for you my friend for having eyes wide open. Now, any suggestion for wrenching the delinquent eyelids open of those that choose blindness?

we all know the real terrorists do and always have worn uniforms in the name of loyalty to the kings and rulers. Who will win the war on terrorism? The terrorist disguising themselves as the heros fighting imaginary villains.

who's winning? Military–industrial complex of course, look at their profits! And you can bet they wont give up their goose that laid the golden eggs so what you can expect is never ending wars from here to eternity!

reply to post by EFGuy


U.S. is whooping some ass,I state that fact after looking at the numbers.

reply to post by raivo


Oh my god, I am so sick of seeing this stupid argument. I swear, the most popular bandwagons are the ones with catchy phrases that are easy to get into. I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but you were the most recent post. I simply aim to inform you based on my own knowledge and experience. Here's a little history:

The whole military-industrial complex idea was brought about by Eisenhower. It simply refers to the comfortable relationship between the armed forces and the businesses that supply them. This relationship is based on competition, not this all-too friendly cooperation that is viewed as "war for profit."

Also, sure, the profits are high, but have you looked at the return of investment? Anyone that sells a product for more than their investment makes a profit. Making a $1000 profit on a $100 investment is good ($1100 sale). Making a $1000 profit on a $100,000 investment is not ($101,000 sale). This ratio is your ROI.

Huge ROIs exist in the civilian market, not the military. Civilian companies can charge WHATEVER the MARKET will bear. Thus highly desirable goods can generate huge ROIs. Off the top of my head, I can say that Google and Apple have about a 20-27% average ROI. Lockheed Martin and Halliburton sit at 7%. People do not enter the military defense market to make money. They do it to serve the nation. Usually.

The ROI for military contractors is tightly bunched - the profit margin is pre-negotiated by the government. You know why? Because given the option of 3 contractors offering the same gun, we will take the cheapest offer. Of course that leads to sometimes crap equipment, which is true. Anyway, this margin is usually set at around 10-15% per contract. The government also has very detailed accounting for EACH item. This means that if a contractor says, "we need $50 for a square meter of steel," and we give them that much, and the cost of making that square meter of steel comes out to only $30 per unit, WE take back that extra $20. That gets rolled back into government coffers.

Yes, military contractors do make very large profits. 10% profit on a multi-million dollar ship is a lot. But military equipment is expensive. They also need to always work. There is also a small market for most, especially expensive but cutting-edge, war materials.

Let's look at OIF costs. $749.9 Bil between FY2003 and the end of FY2010. 10% of that means potentially $75 Bil, very large profits indeed. However, not all of those funds are spent on contractors. A LOT of our stuff comes from the open market. Beds, paperclips, computer monitors, XBOXes, tables, chairs, food, etc. Furthermore, a lot goes into Iraqi companies hiring Iraqis to do work in Iraq.

Before I start rambling, the BOTTOM LINE IS:
Profit DOES NOT equal ROI
Profit DOES NOT drive up stock price (this is determined by shareholders, the people the board/directors work FOR. These include normal people, mutual funds, pension funds.)
Profit DOES NOT result in influence.

US military loss of life would be much greater without the capabilities provided by military contractors. But this Military-Industrial complex does not wield unwarranted influence. It exists, in a way, but not how most of you think it does.

And to steer this back on topic: from my experience (USAF), Iraq is doing better. Almost to the point where I'd say 'good.' Afghanistan as far as I'm concerned is a lost cause. Who's winning? We sure ain't.

EDIT: The above ROI numbers are indeed correct, for 2009. If anyone has more questions - I know people who work in acquisitions at various levels. This is not stuff that is kept secret, so the info is available.

Originally posted by EFGuy
Who's winning the War on Terror again?

The NWO and their bank accounts. It looks like it's being very easy for them. All their players are in place and they've got billions of people bamboozled. Bamboozled and/or stupidly following mindless religions/cults. They are walking all over us all.

in my opinion none wins the War On Terror
on the contrary there are many people paid Heavy price
Soldiers loss their life citizen loss their happy and peacful life
goveronment pay a lot of money
terrorist also loss their life
no one ges profit from the war

So, wait... you mean to tell me the United States declared war on itself. Whaaa???

reply to post by EFGuy
It's like the war drugs it can't be won! Especialy since we trainded the people were fighting!