What about Crowley?

Originally posted by network dude
I sure am glad things have changed a bit. Our order would be very small if these rules were in place.

About the quoted reference we could say that during the Age of Pisces, Sexual Magic was only taught in secret.

Now that we are in the Age of Aquarius, Daath is taught openly.

Unfortunately, most Freemasons, who are members of contemporary "regular" Lodges, are not interested in Esoteric studies.

Also note that in that quote, Joseph Fort Newton said: "...during his apprenticeship."

reply to post by network dude


I cannot say anything about Crowly yet. But i have a rather large compendium of his works. I don't know how many books he authored, but i cannot imagine that he wrote anything beyond what I have in e-copy. My plans are to read through it, but haven't had time yet. I have spent the last 2 weeks trying to find time to finish the last 20 pages in A Brief History Of Time.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


how ironic.

you don't have time for a brief history of time.

reply to post by network dude


I know. That is what i am thinking.

reply to post by Tamahu


To be honest Tamahu, i would be interested to see if you could quote anything without the use of gnostic teachings website and alot of the drival written by Samael Aun Weor. He can claim to be an initiate all he likes but is way off and when it comes to your obsessed sex magick, Samael Aun Weor comes across more than neurotic and should not be held in the same high esteam as you seem to hold imo.

Originally posted by The 5th
To be honest Tamahu, i would be interested to see if you could quote anything without the use of gnostic teachings website and alot of the drival written by Samael Aun Weor. He can claim to be an initiate all he likes but is way off and when it comes to your obsessed sex magick

I'm curious as to why you don't think that his teachings on Karmamudra are correct.

Originally posted by The 5th
Samael Aun Weor comes across more than neurotic

Neurosis is a very terrible sickness of the soul. In this epoch, people have become neurotic. Neurosis is satanic. We must cultivate sweetness, patience and love. We must educate our children with wisdom and love. We must cultivate in our homes happiness, sweetness and love, because you must know that neurosis damages the lotus flowers of the soul. We must teach our children with examples; we should always be happy and joyous. Gnostic homes should be sanctuaries of love and happiness. Neurotic shouts and screams, weeping and crying destroy happiness; thus the white dove of love leaves the heart forever. This is the disgrace of many homes. Live with wisdom and love. - Samael Aun Weor, Logos, Mantra, Theurgy

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by network dude

 

I have spent the last 2 weeks trying to find time to finish the last 20 pages in A Brief History Of Time.

well at least you got further than me pal!
I went for the watered down version "a life in science" a great book still.

as for crowley i have read a little about the man,interesting to say the least
he was big on sex magik and i read his bloodline goes down to the Bush family tree?
no doubt if it came to summoning crowley would be the man.just my opinion.

Going back to the post referring to the similarities of Masonic and Crowleyan ritual practice.
Do they not both have a basis in Qabalah?
I know Crowleys rituals do in many ways, and from what little I've seen of Masonic symbolism, they also seem to have a strong Qabalistic influence.

I'm no expert in either, but I've read quite a bit of Crowley, though my memory never did me any favours in any of my pursuits regarding facts etc.....

I think us "regular" masons should just give up and change our name to "Free & Accepted Masons Who Do Not Worship Satan, Or Are Trying To Rule The World, & Are Not Associated With Crowley, Pike, Lucifer, Baphomet, or The Dark Lord Xenu Inc." of Texas, or which ever state you hail from.


F.A.M.W.D.N.W.S.O.A.T.T.R.T.W.A.N.A.W.C.P.L.B.O.T.D.L.X. INC.

Cant forget the INC.

A 28 letter mason, .....that will definitely get rid of all this 3 letter, 4 letter, Prince Hall, Mainstream bickering within the craft.

But seriously, If its not endorsed by the UGLE, its not my masonry.

S.M.I.B.

Crowley was never a regular Mason, although, in fairness, it made several attempts to become one.

Crowley's status as an initiate in most organizations is somewhat suspect, actually. He seemed to have a talent for finding himself in irregular, clandestine, or disintegrating organizations and then making maximum use of the shards as they fell about him. I seem to remember reading that his Golden Dawn credentials were pretty suspect and that even his O.T.O. credentials were somewhat... open to interpretation.

As for U.G.L.E..... don't give the English so much credit. Regular is as regular does. The truth is that the Masonic Grand Jurisdictions are best considered independent nation-states (at least, within the Fraternity). They sign treaties with one another affording each other recognition. While U.G.L.E.is very influential, they aren't the last word in any other jurisdiction except their own. My own jurisdiction does not recognize every Grand Lodge recognized by U.G.L.E. and recognizes a very few that U.G.L.E. does not. That's the result of true sovereign status for Grand Lodges. And, yes, my Grand jurisdiction is one of those that participates the North American Conference of Grand Masters... so, "mainstream" Masonry. I have a huge book listing every Grand Lodge recognized by mine and their subordinate lodges. We use it when people visit from places we're not sure about. Trust me, Grand Lodge wouldn't spend the time and money to update and publish that book if they could just crib it from UGLE.

getting on ats and trying to get information on crowley is like going into church and trying to get information on the pineal gland your gonna be surrounded by idiots!

www.google.com and www.youtube.com is a good source to research crowley but if you really want to know some good stuff read a few of his books! namely the book of the law!

reply to post by Tamahu


Apologies for being somewhat brash with that post Tamahu, it was a very late and tired night for me and there are some things i don't agree with SAW on when it comes to that said topic, but should not of been so forward with you.

I see a lot of Masons and other occultists addmiting the similarities between Crowley's Magick, and admitting he is a Freemason. Even if they say he wasn't in a recognized Freemason lodge, I think it still shows their similarities. Now this wouldn't be a problem if people want to practice occult rituals and Magick or whatever if they were upfront about it. We have many prominent members of our society, politicians, celebrities and others that say they are Christian, and gain the trust of people who otherwise would not support them if they understood what Freemasonry really is.

reply to post by Unilluminist


having never been a part of a clandestine lodge, I can't say anything for sure, but I assume they teach the same type of things we do, but must add some stuff. Our rituals are not secret anymore, and can be found in book form or internet searches. I think Mr. Crowley was in search of much more than freemasonry had to offer.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Unilluminist

 

having never been a part of a clandestine lodge, I can't say anything for sure, but I assume they teach the same type of things we do, but must add some stuff. Our rituals are not secret anymore, and can be found in book form or internet searches. I think Mr. Crowley was in search of much more than freemasonry had to offer.

Crowley received the degrees in 1904 in an English-speaking in Paris that was under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of France (not the regular National Grand Lodge of France). When Crowley returned to England he applied to receive the Royal Arch degree, but the Supreme Grand Chapter denied his request because, at least nominally, his Blue Lodge was irregular.

Actually, he could have been easily healed, but there was already bad blood between Crowley and some of the officers in the UGLE. A few of the UGLE officers at the time had also been leading members in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and Crowley had already published various essays accusing them of charlatanism, among other things. Had it been someone else, they probably would have regularized his membership and admitted him to the Royal Arch.

reply to post by Masonic Light


do you feel that once Crowley found out what masonry had to offer, he went elsewhere to find what he was looking for? I will fully admit that I don't know everything about masonry, but the kind of magic he seemed to be pursuing seemed to be in other groups such as Rosicrucians.

You cannot discuss Crowley, without speaking of his insane obsession of the most depraved sexual rituals. The article below gives clear yet complicated insight to the mind of Alister Crowley. To say that he spoke out against heterosexual "Christian" act of intercourse, is a huge understatement. Crowley believed the only way to achieve oneness with the gods or goddesses, was to physically push the sexual boundaries of human existence to a level of depravity that rewrote the laws of sexual freedom. The "grosser" the act, the more spiritual you became.


Unleashing The Beast

Originally posted by network dude

do you feel that once Crowley found out what masonry had to offer, he went elsewhere to find what he was looking for? I will fully admit that I don't know everything about masonry, but the kind of magic he seemed to be pursuing seemed to be in other groups such as Rosicrucians.

Crowley was actually already a Rosicrucian Adeptus Minor in the Golden Dawn when he received the Craft degrees. As such, he was more sensitive to the symbolism than many other initiates would have been, especially in regards to Kabalistic and Hermetic influences in Masonry.

In his later life, Crowley wrote that he chose to define Freemasonry as a "system for communicating truth: religious, political, and moral", although he also had many criticisms for Freemasonry in the way that it was actually practiced. Nevertheless, similar to Pike, Mackey, Hall, Buck, and others, Crowley saw in Masonry a symbolic descendent of the ancient mysteries, and saw to perpetuate them in the O.T.O., which he considered a revised rite appropriate to the new age.

Originally posted by network dude
Alister Crowley is a name that pops up quite often in masonic conversations here. Most often it's some anti-mason claiming that Crowley was a satanist and a 33rd degree mason, so that proves that we all worship the devil. But do these people really know about Crowley?

First off, he was not a mason. Not in the sense that regular masons believe. Regular masonry is where a group decides to have a lodge. They apply for a charter from their governing body. Like in the US you would petition your Grand lodge at state level. All grand lodges are chartered by the UGLE or United Grand Lodge of England. The lodge Crowley was a part of was not a recognized body of the UGLE. He was not aware of that at the time, and once he found out, he wasn't very happy.

Freemasonry

He had also claimed to be a Freemason,[123] but the organizations he joined are not considered regular by Masonic bodies in the Anglo-American tradition.[124] Crowley claimed the following Masonic degrees: 33° of the Scottish Rite in Mexico from Don Jesus Medina. “Don Jesus Medina, a descendant of the great duke of Armada fame, and one of the highest chiefs of Scottish Rite free-masonry. My cabbalistic knowledge being already profound by current standards, he thought me worthy of the highest initiation in his power to confer; special powers were obtained in view of my limited sojourn, and I was pushed rapidly through and admitted to the thirty-third and last degree before I left the country.” The Confessions of Aleister Crowley pp. 202–203. 3° In France by the Anglo-Saxon Lodge No. 343, a Lodge chartered in 1899 by the Grande Loge de France, a body unrecognised by the United Grand Lodge of England, on 29 June 1904. 33° of the irregular 'Cerneau' Scottish Rite from John Yarker 90°/95° of the Rite of Memphis/Misraim from John Yarker. The United Grand Lodge of England, whose recognition is generally considered the standard for Masonic validity, did not recognize any of the above bodies as being true Freemasonry, thus Crowley never was an “official” Freemason within the common understanding of the term. Crowley quickly realized that the post-Yarker era meant change. He was not rebellious by reflex, at least where old British institutions were concerned. He undoubtedly believed O.T.O. had authority from Yarker to work the Ancient and Primitive Rite's equivalent to the Craft degrees in England, but once made aware of the issue of regularity when having his own French Masonic credentials declined, he was not defiant and on his own made changes to the O.T.O. to avoid conflict. He inserted notices into the last number of The Equinox to the effect that the O.T.O. did not infringe upon the just privileges of the Grand Lodge Of England During WWI Crowley worked slightly revised English Craft rituals in America, but despite the absence of a central Grand Lodge, he met with objections from masonic authorities. He then rewrote the O.T.O. rituals for I° – III° so that they no longer resembled Craft masonry degrees in language, theme or intent.[125]

source

Aleister Crowley was a member of a irregular lodge under the jurisdiction of the UGLE.

- I'm a mason

Originally posted by KeithClark

Aleister Crowley was a member of a irregular lodge under the jurisdiction of the UGLE.

- I'm a mason

Crowley's Lodge, Anglo-Saxon No. 343 in Paris, was under jurisdiction of the Grande Loge de Francais, not UGLE.