Greek PM says it at last: carbon taxes are just another way to raise revenue

Greek PM says it at last: carbon taxes are just another way to raise revenue

blogs.telegra ph.co.uk

George Papandreou, the Greek prime minister has said that there may need to be new Europe-wide forms of taxation to help pay for the bail-outs that will be needed by the growing number of crashing economies in the euro-zone. His suggestions include “carbon dioxide taxes” which, he says, could provide “important revenues and resouces for funding such a [bail-out] mechanism.”

(visit the link for the full news article)

Forgive me if I'm wrong to think so ... but surely, if the stated purpose of Carbon Dioxide Taxes are to reduce emissions, wouldn't the revenue generated be an ever-decreasing one?

Unless of course, politicians (and all those invloved) were more interested in raising revenue... rather than 'saving the planet' from Global Warming.

Has the Greek PM let the cat out of the bag? ... lol

blogs.telegra ph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Gee what a surprise.

The carbon tax is to fund COUNTRIES BAILOUTS and BANK BAILOUTS?

Countries bailouts and bank bailouts are the same thing... since the money end up at the same place.


And gee, all of us who said this for years now were kooks uh?

reply to post by Dagar


Gee blind Freddy could see that one!. Governments need more & more money & are running out of ways to tax people. So they just make up new ones. A bit like whole "green industry". Get used to it & the other manufactured taxes. It's real!

Originally posted by Vitchilo



And gee, all of us who said this for years now were kooks uh?

It seems to me that more and more, with each passing day, what used to be kooky conspiracy is becoming (unpleasant) acknowledged reality.

I think pretty much every member of ATS could have predicted this one, probably did, and were roundly ridiculed for their troubles.

No wonder ATS is becoming so popular .

reply to post by phatpackage


Yep ... Carbon taxes will be no different to alcohol and tobacco taxes. Officially touted as necessary for the planet's health and to discourage pollution... Unofficially used to raise all that lovely extra revenue for governments and bankers everywhere.

... and don't you dare complain... they;ll accuse you of being an uncaring, selfish, climate denier. You wouldn't want that now, would you?

Originally posted by Dagar

Unless of course, politicians (and all those invloved) were more interested in raising revenue... rather than 'saving the planet' from Global Warming.

That's crazy talk ... next thing you know Papandreou will declare that speed traps aren't about saving lives.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by Dagar

Unless of course, politicians (and all those invloved) were more interested in raising revenue... rather than 'saving the planet' from Global Warming.

That's crazy talk ... next thing you know Papandreou will declare that speed traps aren't about saving lives.

Aren't they?

Surely politicians wouldn't be as cold-hearted and cynical as to sucker people into paying more taxes so we can save the planet?

Say it ain't so

I guarantee legal prostitution could rake in more revenue in a shorter amount of time and would amount to happier people. Tax condoms and KY Jelly.

reply to post by asperetty


Legalise prostitution and cannabis and tax the hell out of 'em! That would seriously bolster the government coffers throughout the world.

Although I wonder whether I would be saying that if I visited prostitutes or smoked weed?

ETA: I wouldn't recommend taxing condoms, they're pricey enough and would only serve in raising unwanted pregnancies and STDs.

Well, rumor has it that the U.K. is next in line within 2011 or the end of 11 to begin talks with I.M.F. , but i guess we all know that....right ?

Originally posted by nik1halo
reply to post by asperetty

 

ETA: I wouldn't recommend taxing condoms, they're pricey enough and would only serve in raising unwanted pregnancies and STDs.

edit on 17-11-2010 by nik1halo because: (no reason given)

the brothels would have to provide condoms as a mandatory safety regulation, which suits the interest of the consumer, like ramps that are required for handicap people, fire exits and extinguishers, hair caps in restaurants... considering their business would increase tenfold when legalized, they could easily afford it. greece is already a popular tourist destination. i don't see why they don't take a page out of Amsterdam's portfolio and just expand on it.

I would be far more happy if carbon tax revenue was used to fund alternative energy, not greedy politicians and bankers. That way the transition from fossil fuels would be supported two-fold - increase in fossil fuel price by carbon taxes making their usage less attractive, and increase in alternative energy because subsidization would make their use and research more attractive.

But even one side of the coin (only making fossil fuels less profitable) is still better than nothing, and would also speed up the much needed transition to clean energies. So, altrough I am dissapointed, I am still pro carbon tax, since alternatives (doing nothing, cap and trade) are still worse.

Claims in the article that carbon tax wont lead to reduction in fossil carbon are unfounded - if you tax usage of a commodity, the market would naturally try to use it less and look for alternatives (and even more if they are subsidized), since thats the way to maximize profit. Even if the revenue decreased in the future, they need the money for bailouts NOW, so that point is irrelevant too.

Originally posted by Dagar


Forgive me if I'm wrong to think so ... but surely, if the stated purpose of Carbon Dioxide Taxes are to reduce emissions, wouldn't the revenue generated be an ever-decreasing one?

Unless of course, politicians (and all those invloved) were more interested in raising revenue... rather than 'saving the planet' from Global Warming.

Has the Greek PM let the cat out of the bag? ... lol

blogs.telegra ph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Actually no it wouldn't be an ever decreasing revenue, because in essence it's all about creating austerity through notions of a shared and collective debt.

It's not about enriching the states or even the bankers and the central banks that it all flows through and is being orchestrated by.

It's about impoverishing the citizen to accept a lesser standard of living and giving up more freedoms.

Because money makes the world go round you are only as free as the money in your pocket allows you to be.

Want to take part in a G-20 protest? Well you are going to need some cash or your VISA Card to get there!

Taxation simply erodes the spending power of the middle classes, basically moving us towards a two class society.

The rich and the poor. The managers and the workers. The leaders and the followers. The Masters and slaves.

The currencies are attached to nothing of intrinsic value there for they have no value, the only thing currency is actually good for is obtaining goods and services from the corporations woven into the states and partnered with the states that control things like gasoline, thus making it possible to impose yet another additional 'tax' on it.

As a tobacco smoker here in the United States taxes on cigarettes, cigars and loose leaf tobacco are about 400% of the actual cost of the product, with the Federal Government, State and Local Governments all tacking something on.

To give you an idea, I now spend more money on tobacco on an average day than I do food and beverages.

Many people who have to drive, spend more money on Gasoline each day than food and beverages. Each extra penny you spend on Gas which itself is a tax is one less penny you have to enjoy other things in life that cost money and do other things in life that cost money.

This is all about creating austerity and sucking every last bit of descretionary income from us through taxes, insurances, and vital necessities that they control so we are increasingly limited in our freedoms of movement and choice money affords.

With the added benefit of causing more and more defaults on real property so everything of real value ends up being owned by the banks and the incorporated states.

They have been for thousands of years robbing us of freedom through notions of collective debt to god and government and now to the earth in general.

Great find, it shows that they are determined to push this 'tax'.

Star and flag.

Originally posted by asperetty
I guarantee legal prostitution could rake in more revenue in a shorter amount of time and would amount to happier people. Tax condoms and KY Jelly.

Have you tried contacting the Greek Embassy with your idea?

Could work you know... definitely more interesting than a carbon tav

Originally posted by nik1halo


ETA: I wouldn't recommend taxing condoms, they're pricey enough and would only serve in raising unwanted pregnancies and STDs.

edit on 17-11-2010 by nik1halo because: (no reason given)

Not to mention the inflation factor

I suspect that carbon taxing will not be the end of it... it will be eating, breathing, sex and going to the toilet next. Got to save the Euro somehow!

Originally posted by tristar
Well, rumor has it that the U.K. is next in line within 2011 or the end of 11 to begin talks with I.M.F. , but i guess we all know that....right ?

I wish all the countries (including the UK) would just stick two fingers up to the ECB, the IMF, and all assorted banker shills.... Then cancel the debt, and start again, this time issuing their own currencies. Oh, and much tighter reins and scrutiny ofl banks.

Like I've said in many threads ... Bankers and their market pals screw up, we bail them out, they lord it up, and we pay the piper.

reply to post by Maslo


The problem I have with it all is the sheer dishonesty.

To first tell people they are screwing up the planet by behaving in 'x' fashion, and tout a tax on carbon as an effective vway of dealing with this.... all the time emphasising how the idea is to encourage people to cut production of carbon.

Then to have the bareface cheek to admit that it's a revenue raising measure that's going to be used to address a different problem

DISHONEST!!

LIke you say ... It might be warranted if the revenue raised was invested in alternative cleaner energies. It won't Be!...You can bet your bottom dollar that the revenue will end up nestling in some fat cat bankers asset account ... like every other thing on this planet will eventually end up. The hellspawn are sucking up everything.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto ... as always, a thought provoking, slightly different take on the problem.

These taxes are very seldom about changing behaviour, though that's the excuse and 'justification' for them. Hence I agree with you that it will never become an ever-decreasing stream of revenue.

They are definitely turning up the speed on their property/asset sucking vacuum cleaner. Whereas before it was a steady slow dribble of assets gradually flowing from us to them, now it's a virtual torrent. I think you're right when you say that carbon taxing is just another notch on their sucking machine's dial

Thanks for the reply Proto

Originally posted by nik1halo
reply to post by asperetty

 

Legalise prostitution and cannabis and tax the hell out of 'em! That would seriously bolster the government coffers throughout the world.

Although I wonder whether I would be saying that if I visited prostitutes or smoked weed?

ETA: I wouldn't recommend taxing condoms, they're pricey enough and would only serve in raising unwanted pregnancies and STDs.

edit on 17-11-2010 by nik1halo because: (no reason given)

????? That doesn't make sense ! The goverment is trying to raise more revenue ,why would they tax themselves ? Goverment AKA prostitutes ! The Whitehouse is the worlds largest whorehouse on earth !