Credo Mutwa says humans were "Androgynous"

So sad to see in Africa, firstly with colonial laws and now US missionaries.
The following clips views the devilish US homophobia almost as a joke.
It is not a joke for our gay people.


In SA we have people fleeing the Islamic Sharia horror, and the missionary evil further north.
Our constitution is very liberal, and even gay marriage is allowed since 2006.
But people are constantly bombarded with homophobia.
Rights mean little when they cannot be enforced.

reply to post by halfoldman


Amazing posts and I so much agree with what your have written.

Outrageous how religion has worked so hard to condamn what was originally viewed as something fully natural and even Divine.
By the way, this makes me recall a scene from the movie "Satyricon", where a "older" child that had been born a Hermaphrodite AND as an Albino, was worshipped as Divine in a temple errected for it, where people had came to see it in its 'glory' and even prayed to it.

This topic made me remember that scene.



As for Androgynity, it is not some New Age-state of mind, but something that a person either are or isn't. Just in the same way that other persons is neurologically "programmed" as either Male or Female, or isn't, despite what Politically Correct people nowadays claims about Gender not being imprinted in the Brains neurological make-up. Being Androgyne is a "gender" in just the same way.
One cannot just decide to become androgyne and then try to learn to master how to become such, but you are either born as it, or you aren't. But those born with it, should indeed see it as a gift, and know that they in ancient times-and still in several cultures- would be held high.

reply to post by Nightchild

All very true.

Although, I'd say androgyny is natural and patriarchal gender needs to be enforced through violence.

Oh yeah...The famous example of Australopithecus ( Lucy) has female traits and the famous "First Family" find both dating from around 3.2 million years ago exhibited recognizable male and female traits.

Either these early hominids have nothing to do with Human evolution or the Shamen means before 3.2 million years ...I would imagine that someone with knowledge passed down from before 3.2 million years ago wouldn't need to use Youtube as a medium as they'd be king of the world.

reply to post by Jukiodone

Well yeah, heterosexist patriarchy pretends to have differential propaganda.
But go to our closest relatives in the animal kingdom (chimps or bonobos), and heterosexism simply doesn't exist.

Well, it's not easy in any violent heterosexist culture.
So it's always nice to see a peaceful outcome.
I was reading on HIV/Aids in Western places.
Many of those parents didn't know their kids were dying of AIDS until the end.
And how sad to think, that homophobia made their hearts so cold that they left with insults and curses.
So it's good to see tolerance and love:
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by halfoldman


Oh my word, that is too funny, you are basing your comment on a skynews/abc broadcast, on youtube??? You're joking right? Really? I was going to keep quiet about all your comments, but when I saw the one where you are basing a belief about SA on a youtube video done by a non SA news program, I just could no longer be quiet.

Ok, you know what,I've lived here my whole life, I was born here, and I've never even gone cross border. But "fleeing from Sharia Islamic horrors"? This is news to me, when did this happen???

Ok, num. 1. SA is not part of Uganda, we are very, very far apart, in fact we are 2,388.40 km, from border to border, in miles that would be 1484.08 and you have to drive through 3 countries to get there, Zimbabwe, Zambia, and Tanzania. That's going as the grow flies, shortest distance possible.

I know we have a lot of BS going on in SA, but take it from the horse's mouth, Sharia Islamic horrors is not one of them. As for gays being treated ... not so well here, now THAT does happen, I don't deny it. As I'm sure every country has it's own fair share of a group of people that have taken it upon themselves that they can go around judging gays to hell and make their lives a living hell. As for me, my cousin is gay, and I love him to pieces. Does he think that his kind keeps the world in balance, no of course not. He just wants to be accepted for who and what he is, and so he is, by his whole family and all his friends and loved ones. Has he run into this group of "righteous a(bleep)s. Of course he has.

Do I think that my kind does? lol, look at the world, it doesn't seem in balance to me, so the way I see it neither can at the moment.

But to actually base something you believe from a youtube video of a news-program that non South-African? dude, no, you can't do that. If I had to believe everything that I heard from a South African based news program about other countries, lol, then I would have to believe that America is currently in a total state of anarchy, that England's queen had no right to treat our president the way she had. That Russia is extremely peaceful, loving and quiet, so is N Korea and China and we should help them wherever possible. That the U.N. is evil and back to America, that EVERYBODY is poorer than poor except for Bill Gates and we must support this wonderful humanitarian.

See what I mean? You want to know what's going on in SA? Come visit us ... and please stay with your tour group at ALL times, do not wonder off, do not attempt to go see the "real" South Africa late at night by yourself. That's just stupid, not even we do that But your tour-guide won't lead you into danger, so stick with em, they are showing you the "real" South Africa, they just trying to not get you killed, by going late at night one at a time. No I'm not a tour guide What's going on late at night, is not Sharia Islamic horrors, it's criminal horrors. The killing of lesbians, is not exactly a "sweep", there has been a couple. And it wasn't by Sharia Islamic horrors, it was by these ... in proudly South African Afrikaans: flippen mal moere that I keep telling you about.

As for these guys that said it was ok, lol, these guys also support polygamy. That wives belong pregnant and in the kitchen taking care of their too many kids, while they go off gallivanting around drinking out all their money. If I'm not mistaken they are actually interviewing in a bar, lol. I don't hear you complaining about that? You are watching two guys, that probably already had a couple. Would they actually do that? ... yes, it's one of their traditions to become a man by raping a woman, any woman. But once again, it's not Sharia Islamic horrors, it's a cultural tradition thing that they have to now unlearn in the New South Africa, and many are fighting against it, because their history, their culture is everything to them. It's not a simple thing to bridge, I'm not saying it's right, good grief, no. But it's not simple, the New South Africa is still young, it'll take a while to get past these old traditions.

As for putting Uganda and SA in the same basket, you really can not do that. Do you have any idea how many different cultures there are in SA? There are 11 recognized ones. That's just South Africa. Now cross the border into Zimbabwe, and you have a complete different set altogether. Each language spoken here, represents a different culture, with different traditions and each country has it's own set, and they don't really get along that well with each other. heard of zeno-phobia? Heard what they do to each other if they catch somebody from a different country working here, in their midst? And you want to put SA and Uganda in the same basket? lol. Sorry bud, you just simply can't do that, they are completely different people, with different cultures and traditions, not only do you want to put them in the same basket, you want to cross 3 countries, each with their own cultures, to do it. impossible.

As for Credo admitting being bi Now see it's so obvious you know nothing about SA. It seems to be a thing here, most of em turn bi at some point or another. I'm not sure why, could be something linked to a tradition that they have, I'm not sure, I don't think so though, haven't heard of one like that. But there are many traditions and cultures here in SA, so I guess it could be possible, but unlikely. But we see em all the time and they're not shy about it. It's honestly not an odd thing to come across a bi/gay couple walking hand in hand down the street. Girls are harder to know, because girls generally hold hands anyway, bi/gay or not. But the boys are holding hands for being bi/gay, and you see em just as much as you see the girls that are not. We are so used to it, that nobody thinks funny of it anymore, except of course that strange group of "self-righteous" "bleep"s, who mostly just corner the gays in their clubs, which is why their clubs are so hard to find. You know of it by word of mouth only. If you want to know more about SA from a South African, feel free to ask, but don't jump to conclusions based on some youtube video done by a non SA news program. They know just about as little as you do. And thinking that you do, is actually an insult. So much for keeping the balance there, buddy.

I don't know if this man speaks the truth, but it was good listening to all of the parts. Somehow what he says resonates within me. Partially, but it resonates. I think he has alot of knowledge about many things and knows how to present a story in a digestable and entertaining way. The only thing that got me puzzled was that he knew Star Wars movies. Perhaps they have a VCR in town...

I been reading on some "esoteric" sources on humanity's evolution and found it also talked about a time humans were genderless, and even layed eggs.

I looked into chinese mythology and it talks of a time when it only took a mother to give birth without a father back when humans weren't as civilized as they are.

And Fu Xi/ Fu Shi and his sister who survived a great flood civilized or created humans and introduced a patriarchal way of mating(so humans would need a mother and a father to reproduce).

Credo might not be far off with what he is saying afterall.

Thank you by the way for giving me this piece of information. Never heard of the man before.

reply to post by Fenix777

You are correct.
Sorry, bad wording, I should have said we have many immigrants who were fleeing the "Sharia interpretation" horrors further north.
We cannot really flee any more South, can we?
And we certainly do have refugees - mostly Somalians and Nigerians.
In fact, thousands of them.
The fact is much of Africa is currently torn between two kinds of fundamentalism: Christian and Muslim.
As a gay person neither side is very good, although I'd take my chances with the Christians.

As for corrective rape in Guguletu and Khayelitsha - I won't even go into real apparent numbers.

Sadly, individual policemen and courts seem to agree with the perpetrators, and cases are very unlikely to result in true justice.

It's not a new thing to point out:


However we must be very careful with such information.
It could imply that all black people (or indeed, all South Africans) are misogynistic or homophobic.
Generally we are not.
We are horrified by homophobia.
We are mostly kind and friendly people, and this thing also goes on in other countries.

However people like Mugabe and Zuma have told people that being gay is "unAfrican".
Not everyone who believes that will resort to violence, but some will.

Thanks for posting, great info and thanks for the link. I don't know but it just came to me that this story seems more like a process of cell division called mitosis to me, i don't know anything about biology, but the way it is described like humans were like globe ( the cells also seems spherical). The ancients always describe things symbolically. The separation of cells clearly points towards genetic manipulation. I also believe that in the process of this physical division, they have created invisible differences in our very essence that's why we have that longing for opposite gender.

Mitosis

I agree with you they want to destroy all the ancient traditions, and i believe the generation next to us will not be able to see people like credo mutwa. Thanks again for your valuable info, i will definitely check this book.

reply to post by halfoldman


I learned that earlier and other world myths that mention androgens being the third sex that used to exist.

Sphinx depicting creatures in most cultures came to mind with the "four arms and four legs" thing but who knows?

reply to post by platipus

Mythological metaphors are indeed interesting to explain our complex human situation.
Many Eastern deities are androgynous, often males with female breasts.
The initial war between the sexes was a common trope. A few decades back even the West spoke about the "war between the sexes" in contemporary society. It created a whole new genre of film and comedy.
I suppose it was sparked by the first stirrings of the post-WWII feminist movements.
How strange that in our traditional heterosexism gender-mixing was only for the domestic sphere, and most men lived in all-male working and club environments. This gender segregation fought very hard to keep women out of their homosocial male sphere. So men and women met for sex, but shared little else. That is still the case in many cultures.

What Mutwa also discusses with Icke is a change of consciousness brought by the "aliens".
Humans lost their communal psychic link with each other and the animals.
Instead they developed languages, which caused the first real wars (very similar to the Biblical account of Babel).
So the changes they made to us were about "divide and rule", both regarding gender consciousness and inequality, and split ethnicities. It is difficult to untangle fact from fiction in all that Mutwa says, since the plain truth was forbidden, and I think he doesn't say everything.
I recall that Mutwa connects his own bisexuality with an abduction he experienced in the former Rhodesia.
However, I think we get the crux of it: gender, religion, ethnicity - all these ideologies were used to divide and enslave us.

reply to post by xiphias

What you say is sexist towards both sexes.
I hope a day will come when the man is united with the woman into a single being and races and genders disappear. Sexism, hatred and racism will disappear only when everyone becomes genderless and we all become a one, mixed race, implementing characteristics of all current races.

Originally posted by imnessie
reply to post by xiphias

 

What you say is sexist towards both sexes.
I hope a day will come when the man is united with the woman into a single being and races and genders disappear. Sexism, hatred and racism will disappear only when everyone becomes genderless and we all become a one, mixed race, implementing characteristics of all current races.

Sounds like something that someone could have said in Germany, around 70 years ago, doesn't it.
For all to live in harmony- Everyone have to become ONE RACE AND ONE PEOPLE.
Yeah right.

Living in a World where everyone are the same race, the same gender and the same orientation and same same same, sounds like a nightmare come true. Iihk. A World without beautiful genders and racial colours like White, black, red, yellow, whatever, oh the horror. Not to mention, that it is extremely blurrsighted to believe that the only way for people to live in "harmony", would be for everyone to become the same, instead of WORKING on the problems.
Plus, it certainly can't be considered a good thing, that this made me think of The Body Snatchers.

Originally posted by imnessie
reply to post by xiphias

 

What you say is sexist towards both sexes.
I hope a day will come when the man is united with the woman into a single being and races and genders disappear. Sexism, hatred and racism will disappear only when everyone becomes genderless and we all become a one, mixed race, implementing characteristics of all current races.

I think you may have misread what I wrote. There is a logic in it, unlike the forced "logic" in most organized religions centered around the dominance of the masculine (eg, Abrahamic religions). The way I see it, the feminine is the beginning of all things divine, and the masculine is the beginning of all things material. The separation begins and ends with the androgyne - nowhere does it indicate the gender of Adam. The beings known as Adam and Eve were probably twins - but one of them had to have had an extra...something. Try to imagine that maybe Eve was a "biological evolution" from Adam, which turned around and imparted a "spiritual evolution" (blessing/teaching) onto her sole ancestor. Not really sexist - or maybe it is, but that wasn't my intention.

Originally posted by vinay86

Credo mutwa said in this interview that human beings were both male and female in one body and were having great mental powers through which they communicated with other man and animals, but one day these gigantic ball shaped objects came out of the sky and out of which came reptilian beings who divided humans in to two separate entities i.e male and females and in the process humans lost their mental and spiritual powers. Check out this amazing video:

This is a seriously ridiculous claim which is at fundamental odds with all scientific observation. It alarming that you claim to believe everything this guy says.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Scientific observations are, and always will be, at fundamental odds with itself. There is always a bigger picture, no matter how much evidence there is pointing to an end-all explanation. Not to say this guy isn't nuts, but sometimes it takes a different perspective to figure things out.

Of course I disagree...this is a bunch of non-sense. People that believe in reptilians are no different to me than people who believe in fairies.
Humans are perhaps one of the more androgynous species out there, but they're not evolved to be hermaphrodites. Sexual dimorphism exists in all animals, in some it's less evident and some it is more.

reply to post by xiphias

"the feminine is the beginning of all things divine, and the masculine is the beginning of all things material"
Regarding feminine as divine and the male as material is sexist and claims female supremacy. Any supremacy claim is simply ridiculous.
I see nothing divine in feminine (or masculine) things by themselves. Things are divine if they are a unity of masculine and feminine things. Oh this and females are more conscious about money and there are females that are far more materialistic than men. Judging by your claims you must be one of those feminazis. Well, enjoy being a feminist today, because tomorrow when the Muslim take over the Western world you'll wear burqas. I'm Christian but the Western world is far far away from true Christianity. It is evil and controlled by the Illuminati and the feminazis.

Originally posted by imnessie
reply to post by xiphias

 

"the feminine is the beginning of all things divine, and the masculine is the beginning of all things material"
Regarding feminine as divine and the male as material is sexist and claims female supremacy.

What you're failing to see is that "supremacy" is an entirely masculine concept. It really boils down to envy; hence the underlying "conspiracy" against the feminine in almost every organized religion. You are correct; supremacy is an illusion, and the masculine is almost 100% responsible for that illusion. The material is just as divine as the immaterial, but the "virgin womb" is the divine of divines. When I say "material," I'm not saying "material goods" or "materialism" - I'm talking about physical material (as in flesh and blood).

There is divine feminine and divine masculine. But the nature of man is to suppress that which is not him; and there is a good reason for that: survival against the elements. It's not about supremacy or dominance (not anymore, anyway) - it's about returning to a state of balance between feminine and masculine concepts. There will never be peace until this happens.