What's Wrong ATS?

reply to post by NeoAstra
Right, I would say start banning people for a small amount of time, then gradually increase the time for every offense after that?
or maybe a three strike rule for flamers,
flame once: 24 hour ban
twice: 3 day ban
third time: infinite ban.
dunno, just my two cents

I THINK U SHOULD BE THE FIRST TO GET BANNED,LETS TRY YOUR NEW IDEA OUT AND SEE IF IT WORKS..SHALL WE.

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527
reply to post by NeoAstra

 

Right, I would say start banning people for a small amount of time, then gradually increase the time for every offense after that?
or maybe a three strike rule for flamers,
flame once: 24 hour ban
twice: 3 day ban
third time: infinite ban.
dunno, just my two cents

I THINK U SHOULD BE THE FIRST TO GET BANNED,LETS TRY YOUR NEW IDEA OUT AND SEE IF IT WORKS..SHALL WE.

edit on 15-11-2010 by Immortalgemini527 because: (no reason given)

Perfect example of what i am talking about...

unnecessary attitude,
posting in all caps..

And i dont think there is a "we" in this immortal, let alone a "you"

reply to post by Whereweheaded

Because not everyone has the same views, if you're one of those who doesn't agree with the threads comments, you are blatantly attacked and judged?

It's truly a shame that the freedom of speech is no longer recognized.

Hi Whereweheaded,

I read all of your posts that you directed us to, thank-you.

Regarding your 1st post:

Nuke'em all let God sort'em out!

By doing so, would eradicate a worthless country thus removing a worthless people known to cause cancer in rats~

I mean come on, what does Afghanistan really have to offer, except for poppy seeds used for illegal drugs

I too did not realise your 1st comment was an exaggeration/sarcasm. It came across to me as hateful.

Exaggeration & sarcasm can usually be picked up easily in the back & forth flow & context of a conversation between people...but...when spoken without this & without any indicator noted, it very likely will not be recognised as such.

Instead, your comment felt like a brutal "shot across the bow", right out of nowhere!

As for opinions, of course all of us are entitled to our own, be they different or entirly opposite...BUT...there is always a respectful way of voicing them, whether in total agreement or complete opposition.

Even when people are having a "heated debate", it is STILL possible to do so respectively.

Hurtful comments don't just hurt the person their directed at in the thread, they hurt anyone who reads them.

Sure one can leave the thread, but that really isn't a reasonable option when one is enjoying or getting a lot out of a thread, not to mention the camaraderie that often builds up.

You mention freedom of speech...what does that mean to you?

The way I understand it, it is a given that this speech will be respectful.

Freedom of speech does not mean we have the freedom to voice our opinion disrespectively.

I have wanted to post these thoughts for a while now...ever since the "ignore" button was removed! LOL

So even though I am responding to you, I am not directing this to you in particular & I thank you in advance for this opportunity to do so.

This is kind of an aside here, not really part of my reply to you, but speaking of Afganistan it seems relevant...I hope no-one minds if I add it here...I feel compelled to do so as my heart is just breaking for all the pain & suffering all of us are going through at this time.

I have never understood hatred/intolerance of other races/countries & in these most dire of times, instead of seeing people, ALL people, come together...I am seeing hate & seperation instead.

I understand a lot of it is being fomented by dark forces, but we don't need to go along with it.

We need to learn to "play nice" together & QUICK because the whole world is in for a rough time ahead.

I grew up in the Middle East for 7yrs...the kids in school, my Friends, were from all over the Middle East & Africa, we were the only "white" kids in school...the Middle Eastern kids were fascinated by us & our culture & treated us very hospitably.

They are much more Spiritual than we are here in the western world & when we came back home, the other kids in school treated us horribly...our OWN people.

You know, at the end of the day, no matter what colour/country/religion you are...we all still put our pants on one leg at a time...we all go potty...we all love...we all hurt...&...we all bleed the same red blood.

So come on . . . GROUP HUG anyone?????

reply to post by NeoAstra


Perfect example of what i am talking about...

unnecessary attitude,
posting in all caps..

And i dont think there is a "we" in this immortal, let alone a "you"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
u have been here a little over a year and started 5 threads and u have the nerve to talk about banning some one and changing whats been gong on the ats for along time..whats your point to this thread , why not start with u,its your idea?

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


U know what, i am on 13 other forums every day between 10pm and 1am every day,and for the last month i have enlisted over 30 other members from 4 other sites to this one and they love it and we all have a good time being on here.let the moderators do there job with out any indirect threads from somebody that it seems to me is only a slacker with 5 threads in a years time.I like this thread its good but your porfolio and application does not meet the standards of real complaining.its just not up to par with the immortal one.sorry.

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527
reply to post by NeoAstra

 

Perfect example of what i am talking about...

unnecessary attitude,
posting in all caps..

And i dont think there is a "we" in this immortal, let alone a "you"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
u have been here a little over a year and started 5 threads and u have the nerve to talk about banning some one and changing whats been gong on the ats for along time..whats your point to this thread , why not start with u,its your idea?

I do have the nerve to talk about banning people,
why not start with me? that makes no sense..

i have been lurking for about 2 years before i made my account..
and i dont create many threads or post much because of people like you.
and im sorry but all of your posts and threads you have created, you mindlessly argue and try to impose your personal opinion as fact.. sorry but opinions do not trump fact.

im trying to simply convince people to make this site more user friendly and get rid of all the negativity and rudeness here, and if you have a problem with what im trying to do then simply stop posting on my thread. thank you.

reply to post by NeoAstra

Right, I would say start banning people for a small amount of time, then gradually increase the time for every offense after that?
or maybe a three strike rule for flamers,
flame once: 24 hour ban
twice: 3 day ban
third time: infinite ban.
dunno, just my two cents

By the way, i have seen this done before and all it will do is drive every one away to another site.The thing about banning is that your taking people away from each other,people that have a bond over years and years with each other,u ban one the rest will follow,and then the ats will go down in numbers.

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527
reply to post by Immortalgemini527

 

U know what, i am on 13 other forums every day between 10pm and 1am every day,and for the last month i have enlisted over 30 other members from 4 other sites to this one and they love it and we all have a good time being on here.let the moderators do there job with out any indirect threads from somebody that it seems to me is only a slacker with 5 threads in a years time.I like this thread its good but your porfolio and application does not meet the standards of real complaining.its just not up to par with the immortal one.sorry.

edit on 15-11-2010 by Immortalgemini527 because: (no reason given)

A Slacker?? sorry you wouldn't be able to make that judgement based on how many threads i have created.
and it dosent matter how many forums or how many people you bring here? you act like ATS is some high school with everyone clamoring for popularity..
my portfolio and application? what does that have to do with complaining?
and you also consider yourself some sort of deity.
so it seems to me im dealing with someone still in high school..
so its pointless you being here.

reply to post by NeoAstra


I do have the nerve to talk about banning people,
why not start with me? that makes no sense..

i have been lurking for about 2 years before i made my account..
and i dont create many threads or post much because of people like you.
and im sorry but all of your posts and threads you have created, you mindlessly argue and try to impose your personal opinion as fact.. sorry but opinions do not trump fact.

im trying to simply convince people to make this site more user friendly and get rid of all the negativity and rudeness here, and if you have a problem with what im trying to do then simply stop posting on my thread. thank you.
=============================================================================================
U are obviously very sensitive and passionate about what u are saying, i guess im not looking at the whole picture in a sensitive way.I guess because i deal with over 100 skeptics, a hundred flambaters and the worst personalities on 13 other sites every day..so i am used to it.
just want to say im sorry for not being sensitive to your thread..have a good night.

I'm going to jump in and make some sweeping comments/observations that might irritate some, and perhaps even ramble a bit.


Firstly, there's nothing wrong with ATS. But there is something "wrong" with some of the people who post on ATS, and the root problem is the reflexive rudeness posting on the Internet brings out in many people.

Think about it. Imagine you (being a staunch UFO skeptic) are conversing with a group of people at a cocktail party about UFOs. Someone utters something you believe is totally silly, perhaps they're convinced Billy Meier is an honest purveyor of extraterrestrial-entity experiences. Being face-to-face in mixed company, your response is likely to be polite and non-confrontational (else you may get tossed out on your ass).


What ever happened to, "there are no stupid questions?" Just because we regular users of ATS may have developed finely-honed BS-meters and have acquired specialized knowledge based on the sharing and collaboration going on here, is no reason to scoff at anyone who has not had the benefit of similar experience. But again, somehow being on "the Interwebs" has caused some people to believe they have license to scoff (or worse) at the inexperienced.

Think about it. Imagine if, in real life, every poorly-conceived question or misinformed query resulted in the kind of ridicule we often see online. "Hey," asks someone next to you on a computer at Starbucks, "Is this YouTube video of a UFO in Haiti real?" You could respond, "No, long ago some people at ATS outed the CGI guy who made it," and you may have made a new friend. Or you could respond as if posting on the Internet and say, "You fool, why is someone like you even allowed to have a computer," and have hot coffee tossed in your face.


"Intelligent conversation" is subjective and perceptions change over time. As you learn about a newly discovered subject, any initial conversation may be perceived as "intelligent" as your learning curve begins its upward swing. Over time, you gain an ever-increasing depth of knowledge, and your requirements for an "intelligent" conversation are much higher than when you first learned of the subject. Everyone goes through this, on every subject, but somehow many people who frequent discussion sites take pleasure in casting aspersions on people just entering the learning curve.

Think about how this effects posting on ATS. We see it every day, some people who have been here for long time exhibit impatience when topics are rehashed by new users. Imagine if student aids for a university professor of history exhibited the same impatience. Each new user seen bringing up well-discussed topics anew is an opportunity to ease someone into the learning curve and cultivate a future and valuable expert.


I can tolerate 100 ridiculous UFO sightings if it means we get one that is exceptional. Can you?

Here is the core idea behind our terms and conditions and the myriad of "please behave" threads over the years (and especially the newest iteration). We ATS members should be seen as accommodating, helpful, polite, and knowledgeable while maintaining our ability to discern BS when we see it. If those with a ridiculous sighting (or ridiculous conspiracy, 9/11 idea, etc.) are clearly shown the error of their assumptions without scorn, insult, or expertly-worded-flame that skirts the terms and conditions, then those with something astounding to share will be more likely to share it. I can be the most deferential and polite conversationalist with the most rude supporter of Billy Meier if it means that one day someone shares something none of us can explain.


If you support free expression, then all of this should make sense to you. It may seem like a reach, but it applies. Being an advocate of free expression means being able to embrace the expression of ideas that drive you crazy. And being an advocate of free expression on ATS means doing so without revealing you've fallen prey to Internet posting habits and styles. Grace and civility must prevail, even when presented with awkward disrespect.



We're doing our best to ensure ATS continues to function as it always hopes to: a place where anyone should be able to post any idea, and not be fearful of being attacked.

Certainly, it doesn't always go as planned, because no one is perfect. But at least we're trying really hard.

I'd like to add something SkepticOverlord didn't mention.

Mods are not gods. Link--> www.abovetopsecret.com...

They can only read so much, the overwhelming majority of all the posts and threads posted will go by unseen.
That's why it is so important to use the complaint button when you are experiencing bad behavior.

But... You can also use the button Which you can find in a list underneath the avatar space next to each post,
to address a particular well written and researched post. So it will not slip by, but actually gets read and maybe even applauded. Who knows...

Anyway you are welcome.

Strangely enough I hardly encounter what you mention... Well... maybe my skin is just a lot thicker.... lol


~ Sinter

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


very well,
i appreciate this explanation from you skeptic..
im glad you posted here , quite frankly i expected a response like this from someone, thank you.

Geez...

What's wrong with people...

Oh yeah, I remember - I did it myself when I first came here.

It's never going to be remade in any image, except the image that the 3 dudes want it to be remade in.

And it's their website, and it is member driven - so if members don't like it, it's their perogative to go elsewhere, or like it (or not like it but accept it )

No one makes anyone3 else post here, so....
y'know
if you don't like it, don't do it...

reply to post by budski

Originally posted by budski

And it's their website, and it is member driven - so if members don't like it, it's their perogative to go elsewhere, or like it (or not like it but accept it )

No one makes anyone3 else post here, so....y'know if you don't like it, don't do it...

I beg to differ.

As you can see in the quote from the owner of the site below, just yesterday (& many previous ones) he calls for us to "behave" & act with "grace & civility"...even when presented with awkward disrespect.

This says to me that it is the disrespectful poster, the one not following the guidelines of the site, that is the one that needs to leave.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Firstly, there's nothing wrong with ATS. But there is something "wrong" with some of the people who post on ATS, and the root problem is the reflexive rudeness posting on the Internet brings out in many people.

If you support free expression, then all of this should make sense to you. It may seem like a reach, but it applies. Being an advocate of free expression means being able to embrace the expression of ideas that drive you crazy. And being an advocate of free expression on ATS means doing so without revealing you've fallen prey to Internet posting habits and styles. Grace and civility must prevail, even when presented with awkward disrespect.

reply to post by Maiden PEI


Freedom of speech is very easily defined. Reference the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. There are no limitations within that text. Regardless of hurtful or positive comments, there are no limitations.

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

source: www.usconstitution.net...

I dont see any limitations mentioned within, do you??

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Freedom of speech is very easily defined.
>snip<
I dont see any limitations mentioned within, do you?

There is a rather big limitation, in that the constitution is specific that "no law" may be established to limit free expression. This does not translate into the notion that there is a law that enforces anyone's right to say what they want, where they want, and when they want.

Which means we (or any other privately operated/owned venue, source, etc.) may define our own standards by which we allow participation. And our standards specify civility and decorum.

reply to post by BigTimeCheater


I think if a person is comfortable with being banned and repeatedly opening a new account on the site then they really aren't a part of the community. Maybe I see it differently than you (and others) but I didn't join just to spout off on what I feel like. I joined so I could be a part of the community and share ideas and learn more. I wouldn't feel comfortable with being banned and so I will not do something that might cause that to happen. Should we cater to the ones that don't care?

I honestly think there are kids under the age of 18 joining the forums... possibly under 17..

The Message Of The Medium

Originally posted by Mizzijr
I honestly think there are kids under the age of 18 joining the forums... possibly under 17..

While children do tend to be childish, the irony is that on the Internet, a rather huge percentage of adults tend to be childish as well. If we were to devise some sort of Turing test to try to determine chronological age of members, the results would probably be no better than flipping a coin.

The problem that underlies all forms of Internet discussion is the online disinhibition effect, also known under the less-than-family-friendly acronym "GIFT".

Essentially, in the absence of traditional cues and contexts that reinforce social inhibitions, cultural norms and taboos tend to break down, and people tend to be jerks. Not everyone, mind you, but a surprisingly high percentage.

As someone who reads a lot of posts in online discussion boards, it never ceases to amaze me how revealing bad behavior is. If people realized how much they were actually telegraphing about themselves when they behave badly, I suspect we'd see less of it. Or maybe not, it's hard to say.

But that's the sort of thing we're up against on ATS, just as with every other online discussion community, and dealing with it takes up the majority of moderator time.

Because there's really no reliable way to determine true identity or intent in forum posts, we have to go by what is presented to us, which is why the litmus test of courtesy is so important.

While we cannot assume everyone who posts politely is necessarily acting in good faith, we know people who post in an obnoxious manner are acting in bad faith, and that's something we can do something about.

It's not an easy nor pleasant task, but I definitely think it's worth the effort.

The payoff is a better ATS for everyone.

I do agree that there are some younger people on these forums..
but we cant stop liars and cheaters from trying to make everyones time on this site horrible...
I realize that the moderators and owners are doing everything in their power..
running a website is not an easy task... You have to deal with every kind of person imaginable and to think that there arent going to be people like 4chan coming on the boards and posting random rabble and trolling is nonsensical.

And i personally think that 4chan and some other websites are deliberately making an attack on ATS.
i have some online friends from games and such who are members and when i send them threads to look at from ATS they just laugh at me and act all trollish.
some of the users on here are making up random stories of past events claiming outrageous things.
I think that its more than just a few people just making fun and being rude.
im starting to believe that it is a GROUP of people causing problems..
then again I may be wrong.