When did ego become a bad thing?

Originally posted by beebs
reply to post by derickonfire

 

So surely you understand how your use of particular language can detract from your overall message...

I do understand, and that is why I can only tell people to read and meditate and figure it out for themselves.

I wish I had more to say, but anything I say will be construed by each individual's accumulation of earthly experiences.

reply to post by derickonfire

I do understand, and that is why I can only tell people to read and meditate and figure it out for themselves.

I wish I had more to say, but anything I say will be construed by each individual's accumulation of earthly experiences.

Fair enough.

So many wonderful replies.
I'm overwhelmed.
In trying to answer them all I have been moved to write a poem.
I hope this offends no ones' feelings.


David Grouchy






The ego that can be spoken is not the true ego.

It is the Tao that one drinks that is the eternal Tao.
If I take the Tao from your lips and drink it then you have spoken the true Tao.
If you speak of the Tao, and I answer with words of Tao, then there is no Tao between us.

For what is heaven but the blessing of our own descendants upon their memory of us.
If our descendants curse all their ancestors are we not cursed.
And if strangers bless us as their new ancestor are we not blessed with new children.

When we burn Joss Paper are we not admitting that our ancestors are lacking in rewards.
When we speak flaming Joss how can we drink the Tao.
Is it ego that guides us to drink the Tao, from many ancestors, even our own.

reply to post by davidgrouchy

Hi, davidgrouchy.

Here is how to deal with the "ego":
www.opraheckhartvideo.com...

You know that the "ego" is superficial, right ?

I think part 4 and after, talks about the ego. . .

Blue skies.

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

/sadface

I must have missed a memo somewhere.

I have noticed for several months now, from the context in which it is used, that ego is now considered a bad thing. Prima fascia. There is no substantiation, no explanation, and definitely no demonstration of how ego is bad. It is just thrown in at the emotional leverage point where what-ever-is-being-discussed is now considered bad. As in dumb bad. As in; it must stop.

So I think I get how the word ego is being used now. But I don't understand why, or when, it happened. This makes me giggle. Cause in the world of the Id, the ego, and the super ego; if one removes one of the three legs, well... the tripod won't stand any more. The whole personality will just fall over.

There may be something else going on, but I don't know what it is. I'm expecting some kind of an answer that comes from a recent movie, video, song, or event, where the public reaction is one of aversion to ego. So what is going on. Can someone give me a clue?

Am I guilty of it by asking this question.
When did ego become a bad thing?

David Grouchy

It's not, it's essential and inescapable as sentient beings. Psychologically speaking, it's rather the point. On the other hand... Everything is a matter of degree. Attempt balance in all things.

Having said that, however I have noticed that it seems we're going culturally from understanding that 'too big of an ego' was a bad thing to taking the word, or even the concept of 'ego' (i.e. 'self'), as being a 'bad' thing; or, at least representing the word in a negative context more often than not. This seems to be a recent (the last five years or so) push that is growing exponentially to socially pressure people to conform to the point of abandoning 'self' for the sake of the 'group'. Which, to my mind is just as unhealthy as having 'too big of an ego'. What is even more odd, is that the psychological community as a whole not only seems to support this misrepresentation but actually perpetuates it in their own literature.

Weird.

Originally posted by indianajoe77
Ego became a "bad" thing about the same time that "individualism", "personal achievement", and "personal resposibility" became "bad" things and "group think", "collectivism" and "victimism" became "good" things.

Well the Human race for most all of it's existence has survived as groups and collectives and organizations, the idea of individualism and personal success are all new ideas, and those new ideas are not working and thus the idea of a united collective society are naturally sort after. The PTB created the divided society to keep us from organizing and collectivizing to better our place in the world. A divided society is easier to control and exploit, a single voice is not heard by anyone, a collective voice can not be ignored.

I do agree though personal responsibility is lacking, the 'it's not my fault society', but that has more to do with your individuality, ego driven, 'it's not my fault'. As a divided society there is always someone else you can blame.
You hardly hear anyone say 'we' anymore, it's always 'I'.

The idea that you are above the rest of society, the idea of individualism, personal achievement, comes from your EGO. The individual is not stronger than the whole, and will fail without a united community.

Ego in excess has never been a good thing, it's what lead to the hierarchical system we live in.

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

/sadface

I must have missed a memo somewhere.

I have noticed for several months now, from the context in which it is used, that ego is now considered a bad thing. Prima fascia. There is no substantiation, no explanation, and definitely no demonstration of how ego is bad. It is just thrown in at the emotional leverage point where what-ever-is-being-discussed is now considered bad. As in dumb bad. As in; it must stop.

So I think I get how the word ego is being used now. But I don't understand why, or when, it happened. This makes me giggle. Cause in the world of the Id, the ego, and the super ego; if one removes one of the three legs, well... the tripod won't stand any more. The whole personality will just fall over.

There may be something else going on, but I don't know what it is. I'm expecting some kind of an answer that comes from a recent movie, video, song, or event, where the public reaction is one of aversion to ego. So what is going on. Can someone give me a clue?

Am I guilty of it by asking this question.
When did ego become a bad thing?

David Grouchy

Good post...Ive been wondering the same thing lately..without ego we'd never have been to space, to everest, exploring, art music etc...

Especially given that the word EGO simply means 'conscious mind'....one has to wonder why its such a bad thing and everyone wants to get rid of it...


R

reply to post by Wally Hope


Agreed, but as small collectives, like tribes, not huge million-plus "communes".

I'll agree too that over inflated egos, or being egotistical is not a good thing, as you point out, because it gives one a sense of being "above" others. On the other hand, no progress or advancements are made without one haveing the "balls" to think outside the group.

Again, everything in moderation and balance - too much of anything is bad.

Originally posted by Rosha
Especially given that the word EGO simply means 'conscious mind'....

Actually it's the conscious mind as it pertains to the self. It's the root of selfishness. An egotistical mind has an exaggerated sense of self importance.

Originally posted by indianajoe77
reply to post by Wally Hope

 

Agreed, but as small collectives, like tribes, not huge million-plus "communes".

However large, or small, we will naturally form communities because we are social creatures and cannot survive as individuals. You don't have to be a 'tribe' or the community be a 'commune', just a strong well organized community. It is the system we live in that has divided our communities in order to better control the worlds economy.

...On the other hand, no progress or advancements are made without one haveing the "balls" to think outside the group.

I agree but I don't think 'advancement' is ego driven. But then advancement is subjective isn't it? It can be ego driven, as in advancement just to please the self, or it can be community driven, as in to help the community you live in. Advancement as in bigger houses and yachts for the few, or as in better housing and less poverty for everyone?

Originally posted by Wally Hope

Originally posted by indianajoe77
reply to post by Wally Hope

 

Agreed, but as small collectives, like tribes, not huge million-plus "communes".

However large, or small, we will naturally form communities because we are social creatures and cannot survive as individuals. You don't have to be a 'tribe' or the community be a 'commune', just a strong well organized community. It is the system we live in that has divided our communities in order to better control the worlds economy.

...On the other hand, no progress or advancements are made without one haveing the "balls" to think outside the group.

I agree but I don't think 'advancement' is ego driven. But then advancement is subjective isn't it? It can be ego driven, as in advancement just to please the self, or it can be community driven, as in to help the community you live in. Advancement as in bigger houses and yachts for the few, or as in better housing and less poverty for everyone?

I'm loving this conversation by the way!

Wouldn't a person putting forward an advancement to help the community still be pleasing one's self, i.e. satisfying their own desire to help the collective, or ones own self-satisfaction?

Originally posted by indianajoe77
Wouldn't a person putting forward an advancement to help the community still be pleasing one's self, i.e. satisfying their own desire to help the collective, or ones own self-satisfaction?

Well if you get satisfaction from helping your community then that is good right?

You know though being part of a community doesn't necessarily mean 'helping' your community. It just means the community is aware of it's autonomy, and as a whole it is allowed to make its own decisions. Rather than a centralized 'government' (for example) making decisions for communities it's not a part of, and thus having no idea of it's real needs and desires. A strong community should help itself by making decisions based on the community, not ran by the decisions of privileged individuals based on their own egos.

reply to post by davidgrouchy

Hello Mr Grouchy,

I won't repeat what others have said, but I will add that I think Ego is really a spectrum type of thing, and part of the make-up to be human.

So either end of the spectrum would insinuate unbalanced ego, from the Eogtisitical.. or over the top type of inflamed self importance to the other end of the scale where we find the victim mentality, low self-esteem, etc.

In which case a healthy ego would be somewhere balanced in the middle of the spectrum.

I also think we have developed an overtly complex view of Ego. To me, it is simply the part of us that is aware of itself... the thing that helps us recognise ourselves as separate beings. In which case even 'God' would have Ego in order to be self-aware and differentiate between various aspects of itself..

Must say though many people balk at my perception and tend to shy away from it's implications or wish to argue endlessly in order to show their level of Ego Balance.

Not for the blind, but for those ready to hear:

Ego is driven by Id (our basic survival force) and expands up on Id our desire for material matter. This is our greed to not only live, but to excel rampantly. It is our lust for sex (to live forever) and our love of the feeling called ‘desire’. Our Ego has collected (hoarded) and condensed energy in to the mass of our earthly world density. God is energy of everything that exists, and Ego broke it in to infinite fragments. This is imagination, creativity, and the existence of ALL things coming from Ego's thought.

Our Ego began to see, and looked around. It's center of attention is our consciousness - what we hear, see, think or feel - either awake, tranced, or asleep. 'Names' and 'Language' came to be. You must imagine a thought only world, without matter or separation. God is here and it is where we evolved from, before Id and before Ego separated us. Imagine a seed planted and grown from nothing to something small, and then again and again and again to something greater. This is the evolution of us - the evolution of fragmented energy and thought because of Ego. It started small and weak, and built up on itself mathematics, music, science, and more. As God is separated - new growth of the Ego affirms Id’s success, and grows yet further from the One original source.

We do have the choice to understand and feat Ego within our individual selves and become God, again.

Originally posted by Wally Hope

Originally posted by Rosha
Especially given that the word EGO simply means 'conscious mind'....

Actually it's the conscious mind as it pertains to the self. It's the root of selfishness. An egotistical mind has an exaggerated sense of self importance.

"Egotistical" is a human judgement, an emotional response; a reaction to fear.

The same time when the larger group decided to call individuals selfish for not following their hive mind tendacies.

Originally posted by 547000
The same time when the larger group decided to call individuals selfish for not following their hive mind tendacies.

For a society to evolve and survive it needs to be a community. A person cannot survive in isolation.

It's the ego that makes you believe that you are more important than the whole. It's an egocentric arrogant way of thinking, it's all about you, you are more important than the whole. It's an ego driven attitude.

This is why there are no community values anymore, it's why kids have no discipline, it's why people have no consideration for others anymore, it's why neighbours are strangers we tolerate. Society has become about itself, totally ego driven, and we all wonder why it's falling apart.

Originally posted by Wally Hope
For a society to evolve and survive it needs to be a community. A person cannot survive in isolation.

It's the ego that makes you believe that you are more important than the whole. It's an egocentric arrogant way of thinking, it's all about you, you are more important than the whole. It's an ego driven attitude.

This is why there are no community values anymore, it's why kids have no discipline, it's why people have no consideration for others anymore, it's why neighbours are strangers we tolerate. Society has become about itself, totally ego driven, and we all wonder why it's falling apart.

The whole is made up of individuals. It has no feelings of its own that we can possibly be aware of.

Love of one's neighbor is a virtue. Love of the polis is a truth-destroying collectivist vice.

The only community worth devoting oneself to is one that respects truth when it is told and does not try to suppress it via either social pressure or top-down policy.

Until our current civilization stops trying to make me join it in insanity, I will continue to be an individualist.

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
Until our current civilization stops trying to make me join it in insanity, I will continue to be an individualist.

You fail to realize you are a part of the problem, not apart from it.

The problem is 'individuality' has become an excuse for the egocentric to flaunt themselves, and unfortunately it works in this system where material possessions are more important than people, it's a virus that is killing our communities. If people have no sense of community they have no sense of belonging, of a shared emotional connection. This is the breakdown of society.

We now have a generation, or two, of people who have never experienced 'community' in their neighborhoods. This leads to anti-social behavior, kids join gangs to replace this lost sense of community, people lack consideration for others, have no concern for others etc, and so crime and violence rises. It's nothing new, but it's a growing problem because the state perpetuates this egocentric thinking. Compare today with the 50's when people had a strong sense of community.

reply to post by Wally Hope

Then we agree that the current system isn't worth saving. I say let it go down in flames. Real communities can rise out of the ashes.