NY Times: Nazis Were Given 'Safe Haven' in U.S., Report Says

Originally posted by Xcathdra
had it not been for some secret programs like this, we very well might not be the country we are today.

...gosh, you say that as if the contrary would be a bad thing...

...we're the biggest bully on the planet - hip hip horray for the nazis for teaching us how to achieve THAT... as if our leaders didnt already know... as if nazi concentration camps for jews were NOT based upon the usofa's concentration camps for ndns...

Originally posted by Xcathdra
The groups people have a tendancy to condemn are a neccisary evil.

...there is no such thing as a necessary evil... thats just propaganda to justify evil..

Originally posted by Xcathdra
To assume that the US would never be targeted or attacked because we want to think we are morally superior is a joke.

...agreed... what we think we are has little to do with how the rest of the world perceives us...

We have all known this for years!!!

It's great that it is being reported in the mainstream though.

They gave DR. JOSEF MENGELE a safe haven!!!!


The most evil Nazi was given a home here in America............................

So, all these conspiracies about mind control and human experiments in the US are just theories....

Riiiiiiiight.......

reply to post by squirelnutz


Mengele went to South America not North America, so he never went to the U.S. I have read somewhere that U.S. forces had captured him but had released him, this happened in Europe however.

reply to post by I B Dazzlin


Yeah, i read the wrong article, and then the NY Times one and saw i was wrong...



my bad.........

But, the Justice Department kept Mengele's scalp in a drawer... That's pretty creepy

How did this investigation begin, and why was it initiated? Furthermore, why is it being presented by the mainstream media as an earth-shattering disclosure? Why would the Justice Department need to conduct an investigation into the well known and well documented harboring of Nazi scientists and intelligence personnel near the end of WW2 - particularly scientists in the fields of rocketry and nuclear science - by the OSS, which subsequently became the CIA? It isn't even as if this needed legitimizing. It was an open secret. The press of the day even publicly interviewed some of the Nazi scientists recruited.

The OSS was interviewing Nazi scientists for intelligence gathering purposes when it discovered that they had critical expertise with defense applications. Operation Paperclip was initiated to round up as many of them as possible, harbor them within the U.S. and abroad, provide them with front identities and employment, etc. while they worked for us in fields we felt would be crucial in the then just beginning Cold War. This has been known for decades, and not as some have said, just by conspiracy theorists. This is a well documented, long since publicly avowed program.

So, why now? What's new? That it persisted until so recently? What aren't they telling us among this "new," highly visible "expose?" Just my two cents.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
How did this investigation begin, and why was it initiated? Furthermore, why is it being presented by the mainstream media as an earth-shattering disclosure? Why would the Justice Department need to conduct an investigation into the well known and well documented harboring of Nazi scientists and intelligence personnel near the end of WW2 - particularly scientists in the fields of rocketry and nuclear science - by the OSS, which subsequently became the CIA? It isn't even as if this needed legitimizing. It was an open secret. The press of the day even publicly interviewed some of the Nazi scientists recruited.

The OSS was interviewing Nazi scientists for intelligence gathering purposes when it discovered that they had critical expertise with defense applications. Operation Paperclip was initiated to round up as many of them as possible, harbor them within the U.S. and abroad, provide them with front identities and employment, etc. while they worked for us in fields we felt would be crucial in the then just beginning Cold War. This has been known for decades, and not as some have said, just by conspiracy theorists. This is a well documented, long since publicly avowed program.

So, why now? What's new? That it persisted until so recently? What aren't they telling us among this "new," highly visible "expose?" Just my two cents.

I too would like to know why now? They don't like to give conspiracy theorists any credibility, so I'm wondering why they did this.

Though I'm sure most are dead, it would be interesting to know who they were and the place they worked. How could they be so sure they were working for the US and not against them?

I suspect this information was allowed to be released as a subtle threat against the people who were actively aware or involved in these programs. Maybe Obama's opening salvo against political oponents who are trying to put the thumb screws on him.

reply to post by AceWombat04


Its probley just coming up now because almost all of the people involved with the original programs are dead. Because of this they can't really look any further into this. All they have to look at is whatever is unclassified, and there is no one left to give first hand account of what occured. Other than that I can't think of any other reasons to why they would do this now.

Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

Even though the evidence is in black and white, majority of the people who believe in aliens will not accept history.

edit on 14-11-2010 by Section31 because: (no reason given)

Maybe if you consider history since the past 100 years.. Paintings from hundreds of years ago show these "ufo" type figures. Paintings/carvings on walls/ caves have been found all around the world of "ufos" and other beings.

Your "black and white" evidence is a bit narrow minded..

Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

UFOs up until the 90s = American and Russia black-ops aircraft.
UFOs in the new millennium = American, Russia, and China black-ops aircraft.

edit on 14-11-2010 by Section31 because: (no reason given)

Your opinion is not totally accurate. Have you even considered it could be BOTH "man made" AND "ET" or "alien"?

If you don't know ETs or aliens exist, that's understandable because your in the majority. Most people don't know they exist, they believe they exist. The reason most people don't know they exist is because the majority of people are actually "handicapped".

Naturally, you should be able to perceive/see energetically and inter-dimensionally. Then you can easily see through the illusion we call "physical" reality

reply to post by spoonbender

it was said the CIA was based off the Gestapo the best secret police/ intelligence of the time.

Well, IDK how good the CIA are/were compared to other intelligence services extant or past, but if they did base themselves on the Gestapo, that would explain some conspicuous blunders.
See, the Gestapo were very good @intimidating their own people & apparently ruthless torturors, but that didn't stop a French painter & decorator from copying maps of the defenses along the northern French coast. Nor did it stop French Resistance from crippling vital infrastructure leading up to D-Day. It didn't stop a Spanish bloke who wasn't even an agent, he just had a personal grudge against fascists, from representing himself to German spies as a double agent with info to sell - he made it up. Only then did he get in touch with British Intelligence & managed to pass disinfo from an entirely ficticIous network of spies in Britain & get paid for it, even after D-Day!
They also didn't manage to work out that the "Enigma Code" had been cracked, despite the fact that once Montgomery had crushed the initial German resistance after D-Day allowing the American forces to swing forward to divide the Germans, militarily forcing a retreat to maintain supply lines, Allied commanders made increasingly obvious use of that intel.
Now, to be fair, Montgomery was known as a bold commander, as was Patton (but he was still in Britain, which the Germans knew b/c the Allies wanted them to know, to expect his entirely ficticIous army to cross to Calais - which army they didn't notice was impossible for the Allies to have amassed), but a whole series of devastating blows against key strategic targets in quick succession ought to have seemed a bit more than luck, eh?
Its all very well stalking about in a leather coat, but military intelligence is about collating reports, noticing connections & patterns.
Gestapo = fail.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


The Gestapo was only the secret police of Germany. They worked on gathering information and controling those in Germany and occupied areas. The Gestapo dealt more in the realm of dealing with political enemies. I would imagine that the farther away from Germanic lands the Gestapo goes their power and force dwindled. The SS had a seperate intelligence gathering unit for gathering information on their military enemies. It was from this SS intelligence operation that many Nazis were taken and put into the CIA or CIA funded organizations.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


The point of my argument is hindsight is always 20/20, and trying to determine why actions were taken 70 yeas ago is nothing but an educated guess.

The US is not the biggest bully on the planet, as we have stellar company with Russia, China, Iran, the UN etc.

The notion we should not care what other countries think of is is kinda self defeating don't ya think? There are countries who don't like us because of our foriegn policy, and there are others who don't like us because we are democratic in nature, and there are those who don't like us because we allow more than one idea and religion, because we respect women etc.

Ignoring other countries with the mindest of if we dont bother them, they wont bother us, is naieve at best. Had the US not brought these people to the US after the war where do you think they would have gone? What do you think the result would be today if we did not act back then?

PersonallyI think we would most likely have a cyrilic alphabet but thats just me. Absent the technological advances that we gained by bringing them here, I don't think we would be having this discussion at all, since it wouldn'y be allowed because we would not have a free press or free speech.

Just because it is 20/20 in hindsight does not mean it was 20/20 when the decision was made.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Isn't this what Operation Paperclip was all about? That's been in the open for a while now.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
had it not been for some secret programs like this, we very well might not be the country we are today.

and that is the problem. because of the movement of Nazi personnel into high positions within our own government, the national character of what used to be America has been subverted. The article linked even says it...we prided ourselves on taking in the persecuted. Now, not so much.

I want border security, too. But some of the anti-illegal immigration sounds awfully similar to what we saw in the pre-Nazi Weimer era.

No, the CIA didn't exist. But once the Nazi's were brought into the OSS, the CIA was shortly thereafter founded. It used high ranking intelligence officers from the SS.

Then you have Werner Von Braun, the poster child. Former SS officer, he was key in building the "V" series rockets that terrorized Europe. Once in America, he made his way to the top of NASA. You know...the "civilian" organization that is nothing like a civilian organization?

There IS a conspiracy. If you look into the Red House Report, you will see the startling danger that the world is faced with. The Nazi ideals live on today in DC, among other places. Only now, we call it silly things like "TSA" and "Homeland Security".

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


In actuality the Nazis learned a great deal from our government. They based some of their propeganda on that used in the U.S. politics along with Nazi youth organizations based off of the Boy Scouts of America, and experimentation on humans, the U.S. did experiments on the citizens such as the Tuskegee experiments and the Malaria tests on prisoners in Chicago. The U.S. also had concentration camps in W.W. 1 for Germans, they just weren't death camps. It seems to me that Hitler got alot of his ideas from the U.S.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Had the US not brought these people to the US after the war where do you think they would have gone? What do you think the result would be today if we did not act back then?

I am not singling you out.

But to answer the above question, i would hope that the answer would be "in prison for war crimes". Or maybe in front of a firing squad?

The technology that we stole from the Germans is outstanding. I will grant that. But we had access to the patents and papers.

I guess because I read alot on the subject this does not suprise me at all. I wish more of us would do the digging to realize that our Eugenics program was highly admired by the Nazi's. If you haven't read this article you should, it really for me was a big piece of the puzzle. I believe alot of people in the US supported what the Nazi's were doing, they just couldn't back killing millions of people out in the open.

"In 1934, as Germany's sterilizations were accelerating beyond 5,000 per month, the California eugenics leader C. M. Goethe upon returning from Germany ebulliently bragged to a key colleague, "You will be interested to know, that your work has played a powerful part in shaping the opinions of the group of intellectuals who are behind Hitler in this epoch-making program. Everywhere I sensed that their opinions have been tremendously stimulated by American thought.…I want you, my dear friend, to carry this thought with you for the rest of your life, that you have really jolted into action a great government of 60 million people."

Horrifying Roots of Nazi Eugenics by Edwin Black
www.hnn.us...

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


More than likely if we did not take these scientists they would of been taken by Russia. That is why the U.S. took so many scientist, it was a form of containment. To allow these scientist to be used by Russia would only help them spread communism. Thus to keep with the U.S. policy of containment, developed by Dean Acheson and George F. Keenan, they had to attain these scientists to stop the Russian communists.

reply to post by dantanna

Hitler was the grandson of a Rothschild.

Was he really? I'd like to see a credible source for that. I mean, I'd have thought if he had that kind of financial clout behind him, he'd not have been kicked out of art school, you know? They'd have just made an endowment to the place so he could do whatever he felt like & still pass his courses...

All the higher ups are basically on same team.

This I sort of agree with, except I'd not say the same team, more like part of the same club: playing chess with each other, using our lives as the pieces.
Its just I dont think Hitler was a "higher up", I think he was a useful "queen" & if it hadn't been him, it'd have been somebody else (his masters went for a strong tactical opening game, but that's where the analogy breaks down b/c the piece began to play itself). The ideology may have been somewhat different, but it would have had to pretend to socialism to head off a potential communist revolution &, given that the Rhineland had to be reoccupied, there would have had to be nationalism involved also. As for the whole Master Race vs Untermenchen thing, who knows? 1 thing is for sure, you'll not get many people interested in risking getting killed to fight outside their own country if you haven't dehumanised the "enemy" 1st.
These days its Freedom! vs Terism (not a typo): same old same old.