Zeeman Crater - NASA editing at it's finest?

Originally posted by Argyll
One thing I've never understood about all these images that NASA have released with "smudged" out sections..........If NASA were hiding something, then surely they would simply withhold these images rather than release them with what some people would call "anomalies" included!

Because if they with held them we would pester them for the missing photos And if they refused we would say "COVERUP" even louder. Better to toss us some crumbs and give us busy work. Look at the fuss that was made when they lost the moon tapes?

reply to post by zorgon


How would we know they were missing, if they had never released them?

reply to post by Argyll


NASA loses Moon tapes

NASA lost the original Moon tapes for Apollo 11, they just dissapeared, nowhere to be found. It could be a clerical error, but honestly, how do you LOSE your footage of the first ever visit by a human to another celestial body, when YOU did the job?

It's fishy to be and quite a few others, to be honest. The footage was "reconstructed" by Hollywood with the help of others, to the best of their abilities.

This only lends credence to the nickname Never A Straight Answer. While it may seem too obvious to use smudging, you also have to realize that most people are sheep, and will accept whatever the government tells them. The individuals who question it in their mind, for the most part, will never act on those questions in terms of research or talking to others, for fear of ridicule. ATSers are the exception, but that's usually how things go. Nothing to see here, move along.

While I don't buy that the Apollo 11 landing was staged, I can't comprehend how we don't have a base up there now, especially since at the pace we were going. I believe that we found something on the Moon to spooked us, and spooked other countries as well. There's proof in photos up there, but NASA takes it out, even sloppily, because for the most part, no one asks the tough questions.

Originally posted by zcflint05
(snip) I believe that we found something on the Moon to spooked us, and spooked other countries as well. There's proof in photos up there, but NASA takes it out, even sloppily, because for the most part, no one asks the tough questions.

edit on 11/14/10 by zcflint05 because: html correction

Since you are expressing a belief, your POV is immaterial even though ATS supports your right to express yourself. Wouldn't you be on safer ground if you could provide evidence for your belief? Why do you believe that "we found something on the Moon to spooked us, and spooked other countries as well." (sic) Can you post a photo showing your "proof" and also a photo where NASA "sloppily" removed it? How about putting your money where your mouth is?

Originally posted by Argyll
How would we know they were missing, if they had never released them?

NASA photos are numbered by Mission, film role and image number like this spotlight on Apollo 12


AS12-46-6765



AS12 = Apollo Spacecraft 12
46 = Role #
6765 = frame number.

There are a few rolls missing caused a stink but if I recall they say there were over exposed

eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

reply to post by The Shrike


I don't have to provide you with some kind of evidence, mainly because anything short of live video showing us dancing with aliens on the Moon will be good enough to "meet your standard". The goalposts for evidence change daily on here---the fact is, we don't have "direct proof". We also don't have "direct proof" of black holes, or "direct proof" of the Big Bang. In fact, most science facts of today started with not having "direct proof". My circumstantial evidence has been gone over in this thread, which includes the lack of straight answers from NASA regarding anomalies, the smudging of photos, and the odd complete halt of human exploration of the Moon, or any exploration outside of the orbit of our own planet for that matter.

I'm expressing my view based on those reasons; this is a discussion board; i'm discussing what I believe and I don't need to please you in any way to be able to do that, so the blustering about "putting my money where my mouth is" is really quite unnessessary.

The anomaly shown on these pictures/videos shows nothing more than stretched craters using something like Photoshops transform tool. Nothing weird here at all.

Originally posted by ArMaP
One question: if the Clementine mission was not a NASA mission and the Clementine Image Browser is from the Naval Research Laboratory, why are these images in a thread title "Zeeman Crater - NASA editing at it's finest?"

Originally posted by zorgon
That IS a good question... It might be because saying NAVY editing will leave people confused

If I could use those stroked out letters I could stroke out NASA and add NAVY

...then WHY does the name NASA appear on the Clementine badge?

Originally posted by zcflint05
how do you LOSE your footage of the first ever visit by a human to another celestial body, when YOU did the job?

Because most of the guys working on the project were freelancers, just there for the length of the project and then out. If you've ever worked like that, you know how it is. You set up shop, you finish the job, and when it's done, you leave. The chain of command breaks down, and if nobody tells anybody to do anything (like make sure the tape is safely secured), then it's nobody's responsibility. Stuff just gets filed away -- poorly -- or tossed out. I don't find it the least bit curious that the tapes were lost. It surprises me that any were properly saved.

I forget how many pounds of extremely rare lunar rock material has just been lost in the mail. But it's the same thing. Once the final paychecks are cut, nobody cares.

Zorgon, this might be off-topic, but do you have any specific favorites in terms of "moon oddities"? What are your favorites when it comes to images of possible "artificial structures" on the moon? And no, I'm not setting up for a 'debunking' attempt, I'm here on this board with a sincere interest in this subject matter as I've seen all kinds of different objects moving around or above the surface of the moon through my quite powerful telescope on a regular basis.

Originally posted by zcflint05
I don't have to provide you with some kind of evidence, mainly because anything short of live video showing us dancing with aliens on the Moon will be good enough to "meet your standard".

Yeah, but is that really such a ridiculous standard, given the extraordinary nature of the subject? Why would it be out of the question that something like that could happen? After all, if anything is possible, why would it be impossible for somebody to get good, live video of an alien if not exactly dancing then at least flying and landing and walking around on the Moon?

After all, we're talking about alien space creatures from another planet. Having some live video of them doing some alien thing on the Moon would go a long way toward verifying their existence. Most people would settle for some small little bit of provable evidence. But if we're going to wish and dream, why not wish for something big?

Originally posted by zorgon
No. As you can see in both the Reiner Gamma and Mare Marginas pictures, the ground in both cases show weird contorted areas that just don't look like natural terrain. The colors bring that out quite nicely and I have so far only found such contortions in these two areas. Since there are a lot of iron oxides on the surface, perhaps what we are seeing is some kind of 'image' recorded in the regolith of the anomaly. Since there is supposedly no wind and water erosion on the moon except for the raging storms cause by electrostatic dust... I find it possible that the magnetic anomaly has left a mark in the surrounding regolith

I never thought of that that way, thanks for the explanation.

I will look more into this situation.

Originally posted by Skallagrimsson
...then WHY does the name NASA appear on the Clementine badge?

Because NASA ran mission control. LLNL (Lawrence Livermore National Labs) BMDO (Ballistic Missile Defense Org) and NRL (Naval Research Lab) were the main partners

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
Zorgon, this might be off-topic, but do you have any specific favorites in terms of "moon oddities"? What are your favorites when it comes to images of possible "artificial structures" on the moon?

Setting me up? Too late for that

Well my favorites are in Copernicus crater mining operation... but too many people have difficulty seeing the details... so for one that can be seen easily... I would say this one...



Now to see it you need to look at the full size one at NASA

www.hq.nasa.gov...

Here is what you are looking for but you go find it

Originally posted by zorgon
Now to see it you need to look at the full size one at NASA
www.hq.nasa.gov...

The "devil" is in the details. The fine details in the image may been lost in the jpeg-compression.

Magazine 41/P (B & W) Frames 5971-6159 Unless otherwise noted, all images processed by Kipp Teague from raw scans provided by NASA Johnson. Images labeled "OF300" are from the original film and are presented at the equivalent of 300 DPI on an 7.5 inch by 7.5 inch reproduction.

It should be nice to have the raw or tiff file to look at to find the fine details you mention, undistrorted by some lossy jpeg compression...

reply to post by zorgon

,,,,Copernicus crater mining operation....

Do you mean to point out the big crater, more to the left of the image?

The crater that looks like it has a fairly flat "floor" that is pockmarked with many secondary, tertiary, etc, much smaller impact craters? Pockmarked in much the same fashion as seen all over the landscape, other locations.

SO, this mining...robotic only? Remote control from Earth? Or, conducted by Humans on site?

If on site, how are they surviving for extended stays, beyond the ~14 days or so that Apollo flew? Life support facilities. Supplies. The radiation IS a problem, for extended stays...unless there's adequate protection.

How do they get in/out? I mean, the crater walls and rim, where are indications of any activity in or out, to bring equipment in and product out.

Enquiring minds, and all......

Originally posted by Skallagrimsson
It should be nice to have the raw or tiff file to look at to find the fine details you mention, undistrorted by some lossy jpeg compression...

Well we had access to Kipp's tiff images a while back... but I made the mistake of posting the direct link to that directory in the old moon thread BEFORE I downloaded all of them. What happened is just after I posted that link they pulled the directory. ArMaP can vouch for that as he was in the middle of downloading one of them when they pulled the plug.

Same thing happened to a directory of full color Mars Rover pics but those I have downloaded and since found the new location I will find the Apollo tiffs again too

I'm finally in the process of getting a really good high quality video camera for my 14" Meade telescope to hopefully capture some of the things I've been seeing every now and then on the moon. On multiple occasions I've seen round 'shadows' move across the surface of the moon rather quickly, they changed direction quite frequently. I've also seen multiple flashes of white and green light coming from dark craters and valleys when the night sky is very clear. What the flashes of light could be from I have no idea, perhaps volcanic activity like gasses escaping through the rock. What the moving shadows are from I haven't a clue.

When I catch something I'll be sure to post it in a thread.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
SO, this mining...robotic only? Remote control from Earth? Or, conducted by Humans on site?

Well that is a tough question... but I think we are looking at robotic at the moment. I suspect it was 'hands on' at the beginning to set it up, but everything I am seeing now leads me to think it is robotic, including the return shipments. Just need to look at the pilotless x-37B and the Russian Progress series robotic cargo ships to get an indication. Also one of the NAVY astronauts I was 'hooked up' with as a result of the Lunar Orbiter McMoon fiasco... is the current NAVY/NASA specialist in robotics. He also hold two of Russia's highest space awards

So yeah... I would go with robotics

Here are the tubes they are developing at Kirtland AFB to insert below ground (I never did find out what the huge machine is under the camo tent





Here is one of the laser robot mining drills being tested in a mine on Earth



In the Copernicus crater we found this (yeah I know many will see only blurry rocks, but the Borg spotted it too









Also the bucket excavators made by NORCAT are all designed to be robotic... in fact the whole regolith scooping project is set up that way

Abstract: The Multi-Purpose Excavation Demonstrator (MPED) is a commercial effort and a third generation of technology, following Bucket Wheel Excavator and Bucket Ladder Excavator work by the Colorado School of Mines. The MoonrakerTM is an industrial instantiation, designed to be commercially viable. The proof-of-concept machine is currently under construction.

sbir.nasa.gov...

Here is NASA's version explained
www.digitalspace.com...

In this image near Tsiolkowsky Crater on the farside Jack spotted this



That 'lobate' area looks like fresh movement of a lot of dirt. Many astronomers have reported seeing craters filled in and other weird TLP's for decades and NASA has them all listed. But this lobate area also has two anomalies (see below) Now when LRO came on the scene and they asked for requests, we sent in a request to look at this are 'for geological reasons' We lucked out and it was one of the early requests. We were looking for signs of earth movement. Well ArMap looked at the pics as well and guess what? all sorts of boulders have moved in that region leaving tracks

Here is the big picture
www.hq.nasa.gov...

Anomaly one


Anomaly two

If on site, how are they surviving for extended stays, beyond the ~14 days or so that Apollo flew? Life support facilities. Supplies. The radiation IS a problem, for extended stays...unless there's adequate protection.

Jury is still out on that whole radiation thingie But then maybe Gene Roddenberry got his ideas for the Enterprise's shields from NASA

ACTIVE SHIELDING CONCEPTS FOR THE IONIZING RADIATION IN SPACE
1964
ntrs.nasa.gov...

How do they get in/out? I mean, the crater walls and rim, where are indications of any activity in or out, to bring equipment in and product out.

When was the last time you monitored activity in Copernicus crater?

Enquiring minds, and all......

Inquiring minds usually do more than just post in forums with the same old 'official' versions. Inquiring minds dig deep for clues, make phone calls to key people and write letters to get actual documents... before jumping to conclusions and saying "it ain't so!"

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
I'm finally in the process of getting a really good high quality video camera for my 14" Meade telescope to hopefully capture some of the things I've been seeing every now and then on the moon.

Let's talk I have a target or two in mind Also I need a couple pics taken of a three and four day old moon

This was taken with a 10" scope by Mike Deegan. Below that is the link to the 80% scale version. The 100% version is over 110megs and I am not releasing that due to it will be going to print posters soon



www.thelivingmoon.com...

On multiple occasions I've seen round 'shadows' move across the surface of the moon rather quickly, they changed direction quite frequently.

LSWONE posted a triangle leaving the moon. If I didn't know better it seems he knew when it was leaving Oh wait... errrr never mind

I've also seen multiple flashes of white and green light coming from dark craters and valleys when the night sky is very clear. What the flashes of light could be from I have no idea, perhaps volcanic activity like gasses escaping through the rock.

I have a clip of Clementine images you will find interesting. It was sent to me anonymously some time ago. At first I didn't see what was important as it went by so fast. Not until I did a frame by frame did I see the lights come on... it is curios that the satellite oriented itself on the spot where the light came on

What the moving shadows are from I haven't a clue.

Might be clouds... I should send you a copy of NASA's TLP log that has sighting reports from 1554