Does it make me a bad person if...

I put this in this category because it is a conspiracy, and I would like to know where the original concept came from.

Anyway here it goes...

Does it mean I'm a bad or lazy person because I think the whole concept of working 5 days a week for 40+ hours is absolutely ridiculous?

I have a home, a vehicle, 2 kids and a wife and I must work all this time to make ends meet. I'm not a huge spender and we do nit go out very much so take that into account too. I am always responsible with my life and that will not change, I just do not understand why we have to dedicate half of our waking lives to work.

I understand the whole concept of "well you have the choice to have what you have" but that is not what I am talking about. When you have children they need a lot, they grow require new clothes, shoes, clothes and toys.

I always have this conversation with others because they think people that do not want to work are the bad lazy people of society. I think not.

We should not want to work that much, it drains us and causes us a lot of stress. We also spend less time with our family, and when we do get home we are burnt out and do not have much energy to do anything. I love spending time with my kids and my wife and hate giving it up to a job that I barely enjoy.

That to me is insane...

I want to enjoy my life, I want to have utilities in my home, I would like a way to get around, I just don't understand why we have to spend so much time working, away from our families, that we are supposedly working for..

Who made the rules of 9 to 5? Where did this concept even come from? Why do we abide by it?

Is this "tptb"? So we do not have enough time to do anything but work? So we cannot pay attention to how much the world is falling apart around us?

Why do we work so damn much?

I just want food, shelter and happiness.

Any thoughts?

Pred...

I agree with you, however, it could be a ton worse. If you think about the history of man, i'm sure they did more than 8 hours of work a day. Every minute of every day would be spent getting food, shelter etc. Many people today in much of the world work in sweat shop type environments 15+ hours a day. (I own a Bar and usually put at least 10+/day)
Now, the root of the problem is that they want us to work just enough to stay content. They don't want us to get ahead and they don't want up to revolt. I've been told (and correct me if i'm wrong) 1% of the people on the planet hold 99% of the money. We are working to keep TPTB rich, fat, and happy.
It does seem to be quite a meager existence, and I too am quite sick of it work, sleep, work, sleep, play when you can. LOL it all goes back to the Matrix hypothesis!

Best of luck

I hear you OP! I have thought the same thing many times. I also have a job, family, mortgage etc to tend to, and I spend alot of time away from what means the most to me. My family, church, community. To say it grieves me would not overstate it one bit. I'm not sure that there is much of a choice, unless you want to live in a tent in the national forest, or under a bridge. I have fantasized about just taking some necessary items and retreating to some secluded spot where I could live with my family in the old way, but that's never gonna happen. Sometimes I think that so many people seem to be almost hoping for a massive failure of the economy, and breakdown of the current social and political structure so they can have an excuse to go back to basics. Back to what we conceive as a simpler, more satisfying way of life. I know that thought is in the back of my mind.....

reply to post by predator0187


You wouldn't have to have two people work to support a family if we didn't have to have almost half of our paycheck go to the state and local taxes...somebody has to pay for welfare, illegal immigration through use of the hospital/schools and I mean you California. income tax, excise tax, federal tax, state tax, health insurance, car insurance, homeowners insurance, union dues that are a waste especially if your doing the right thing all the time, tax on food, tax on cigarettes, tax on liquor, having to pay for a license to fish, a licenense to hunt, a license to drive basically you name it and it's probably taxed. Don't forget tolls because they are basically a tax also however depending how your commute goes it's a much steeper tax even though your local taxes go to highway maintenance...so my lazy friend you could technically stay home and have the wife or girlfriend work and manage one paycheck but since you have to pay for all this I'm afraid 40 hrs a week is a minimum..oh and then your kids go to school now add on some more expenses...boy that was a cheery reply

reply to post by BadBoYeed


But again we go back to the people that work that much need to just to make ends meet.

I feel bad for those that have to do it for so little, and the companies that do it should be held liable as that is a crime against humanity.

It seems like all we do is work, eat, sleep, work, eat, sleep, work...etc. What's the point of living if you never get to live?

Pred...

reply to post by predator0187
God no, i worked in a crappy government office job for 20 years, bored bored bored, now my marriage has broken up and unemployed i find i can only work 16 hours a week otherwise it will make me lose my benefits, in a nutshell when i was working i seemed to spend ALL MY LIFE working with only housework and sleep and three weeks a year holiday to look forward to, now, i have very little money, a part time job, but i have TIME to do the things that i love, ok, gone are xbox games, estee lauder makeup, fancy clothes, but do i care, NO. I ve brought up my kids to believe that possesions are not everything and somehow ive done a good job. So no, your definitly not a bad person in my books.

No. You are not a bad person for wanting to Live a bit more of your Life.

Many years ago I suggested to my employer that we work 4 X 10 hour days so that we could live for 3 days a week. He laughed at me and said NO!!

I don't see what's wrong with my suggestion. I mean, every worker I knew did 5 to 6 days a week, which left them only 1 or 2 days in which to live their life.. to enjoy life.. except in that day or two they had to catch up around the house, maybe get an hour or so to drop a line in the water.. and that was it.. go to bed early so you can get up at 5am to get to work on time Monday.

That is not Living, that is Slaving.

9 to 5... I've never known anyone who works those hours. Seriously. In my old career I started at 7am and finished at 4pm unless we had to stay and do overtime. And everyone I knew did the same, except for the office workers who came in around 8 to 9 am... but office workers are a minority of the working population.

That's something under my skin... Media shows everyone works in nice, clean, air-conditioned offices.. and the facts are that the vast majority of people work on the bottom rung in manufacturing and services industries.. with lower incomes and less perks.

Most importantly, you do not work to pay huge amounts of Tax.. you actually work so much to afford the Lifestyle that Media displays as being Desirable in our Culture. If you aren't a materialist, and chasing every dollar for Lifestyle, then you don't need to Slave for so long.

reply to post by predator0187


A thorough study of Marx and Hegel shows the answer to your question. The owners of capital make money from your labor. The more you work, the more they make. No wonder the Chamber of Commerce and its Tea Party beneficiaries want to eliminate the sort of regulations that mandate overtime, etc. In the Netherlands and Norway, the average work week is 27 hours. And they get a month paid vacation.

I was widowed when I was young and had three small children. Gave up my job to take care of my family.

Money was scarce, but all the money in the world couldn't buy the years of precious memories of my children growing up. I look at them now they're all grown and I think to myself, 'look what I could have missed'.

We don't get to go back to do the things we wish we had, and I'm glad I have no regrets that I chose to give my kids my time instead of money.

i'm sick of it.. and have been for a very long time.. i don't think i'm lazy.. i like to work.. i spent almost a year on unemployment and it almost killed me.. and true, "back in the day" people did work more, technically.. but they spent time with friends and family while doing it.. it was a community gig, ya know.. if someone from 100 years ago looked at what we do today, they'd laugh at us... really?? we file paper work, the majority of people don't really do anything and i think that may be why so many feel.... "useless" for lack of a better word. they realize people use to actually DO stuff.. ever see "city slickers" just after he has the breakdown at career day? i think alot of people are starting to feel just like billy crystal...

i'm lucky i have a decent job, i work outside and can see the "fruits" of my labor, so at least at the end of the day i can look and say.. "i did that." but it's still frustrating..

people say it, and someone always tries to counter and make them feel stupid or lazy, but i REALLY do dream of a much simpler life..couple of acres, small vegetable garden, family, some livestock... just sit back and watch the world burn itself out, ya know? i don't care what anyone says..

edit: wow.. when i started this reply there were only two posts.. lol

and i also think alot of people feel that the only way they'll be able to attain that life is if the whole system goes down, that's why so many talk about the "end" so much.. whether it be wwIII or a meteor or viral outbreak or whatever... it's just the catalyst.. a means to a simpler, albeit harder existence.. we know it'll be harder.. we know we'll have to fight and struggle, but none of the problems modern society brings to the table...

a global meltdown is just what the doctor ordered..

The choice is yours,but by giving up working for someone else,you still have to work but it is no longer work it is life.Spend your day tending your vegetables ,feeding your stock ,picking berries and nuts,Gathering food and firewood,playing and teaching your children.etc ,just give up those things that you need cash to pay for.It will be hard but after a while it will be normal.Maybe read this story for perspective
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I get it too OP.

I have asked myself this question so many times.

When we finally decided to settle down, my husband and I were committed to buying a house we could afford on one income while all our friends were buying McMansions. People thought we were crazy and just couldn't understand why we didn't want "more".

Our question was more of what? More stress? More time spent paying for it? More risk?

At the time is was difficult. Not financially but socially. We were literally ostracized by a few of our peers who were more obssessed with the trappings of wealth. But not a month of this financial crisis has gone buy that I haven't been grateful for the decisons we made that allowed us to enjoy more time with our family and avoid the financial ruin so many face in the new economy.

With the loss of manufacturing jobs and otherwise more traditional 8 to 5 type of jobs in favor of a more 24/7
service industry economy, I find myself wondering what will happen to what's left of the American family? Parents and kids are already pushed to their limits, traditional schedules and healthy routines have been tossed out the window. What will our country look like after ten or so years of this frenetic pace and the abandonment of the last vestages of our glory days as a country that produced stuff and valued the family as well as middle class traditions?

reply to post by notsofast


I agree, I think that is why we are all here is because things have to change. It does not matter what causes it we just need something to change.

This is not okay to drain the life out of people. It's not right.

Families have to be together, perhaps that why things like suicides are so high nowadays. The isolation for kids from both parents working is scary.

Parents are supposed to be there, not out working crazy hours just to survive.

Pred...

reply to post by predator0187


That's why I set a goal for myself. I love hard work, nothing beats coming home from a hards day work. That being said I do not and will not be working for someone for the rest of my life. Once I reach like 75,000; I'm done. Imma head out and buy alil piece of land an acre or two. Build a log cabin with about 2 or 3 rooms with an attic and basement with wind and solar towers to have all the amenities. Just spend my time as people have said raising some livestock and etc... I'm only 22 so it'll take some time for me to get there and after I establish my little bit and my money will for the most part just compounding. Assuming by that time society is running by realtively the same standards as now. As you say though the thought of a repetative life is rather gut wrenching for nothing is more dangerous for the human soul then security. For with security means there is something to fear in life and there is nothing to fear here or in death...

reply to post by kosmicjack


Completely on board with you.

I live fairly modestly, smaller home with no garage, because what do you need 2500 square foot home for?

To brag to your friends?

I could care less about that stuff. Same with brand names, I couldn't even tell you what fashion is anymore, nor do I care. I don't care if I'm trendy, because what matters is my family.

I think our society cares too much what others think. I don't like people because they have big homes or nice vehicles, I like them if they are good people. And you know what's funny? Some really nice people have very little material possessions.

Thanks for the reply.

Pred...

Thanks everyone for all the positive responses.

I kind of get tired of arguing that the "young generation" wants something for nothing. Nobody is talking about that, they just want their lives back. No bodies lazy, why? Because they want to do more enjoyable things with their lives? Shame on them.

I really could care less what other people think but it is good once in a while to hear others that are actually on your side of the argument.

I think we all want the same thing, freedom and happiness. Is that so bad?

Do you live to work or work to live?

Pred...

No, it's not wrong, IMO. How could it be? What are we here for...... why should we toil day in and day out for someone else's coffers?

For the most part, it seems to me that we work our tails off for that golden dream time, when we can theoretically "retire" and enjoy the fruits of our labors.

I've thought more recently, now that I've crossed 50....... what does retirement mean? What would we do? I don't care to travel (not that we could afford to anyway) -- there is so much to discover right on my own turf. I'm not happy at ALL with the idea of sitting on a porch rocking, watching the world pass by. I don't see myself doing anything differently, except as old age continues to truncate those things I'm able to do.

I think there is a chance for us all, a chance to find a happy medium. To live our lives and find meaning and laughter and enjoyment while still paying the bills.

I grew up on a ranch a few miles away from town. That was hard work, twilight to sundown, but it was also filled with discovery and the miracle of [animal] birth, and fishing and hunting and gardening. Yes, there were mundane tasks, but there is also a certain joy in that, as we grow older.

You know how I spend about 20% of my "free" time these days? I weed. I pull weeds, remove pest trees and build deep beds for our ever-expanding garden. It doesn't make money. The garden will never make money, but it has riches beyond that.

The key for my Bride and I was the desire to learn to live simply. Neither one of us have ever bought a new auto in our lives. No shame to having a new car, it's just not our "thing". The best thing we ever did was to bow out of the illusion of the perfect life -- the endless do-loop of consumerism and competition that we were in -- and move to a quiet place where the possibility of making big bucks was almost nil. The first year was lean, but also joyful. It was starting from scratch, almost, but more on our own terms.

Yes, we still have bills, and still buy produce, and meat and all the accoutrements of a stable life, but in the years since we moved, we've lost the desire for the shiny things (well........ most of them).

I'm glad I spent two years out of high school just bumming around. I'm equally glad I eased back into the rat race. I think it's SO very much harder for those who have children....... I can't even imagine, even though most of our friends have kids. They give up something, but what they've gained seems to be so much more. I don't regret choosing to not have kids, but I can see how wealthy with family and support some are. Others are not so fortunate.

To the OP......... no, I don't think it's wrong or a flaw in your character or sign of laziness to have these questions. I think it's part of the human condition, and probably has existed in all civilizations since the dawn of human history. (there HAS to be more to life than just herding these damn goats, etc.)

I suppose it helps to have goals that are reasonable and attainable. I never wanted to be rich or famous (good thing!) I wanted to be happy and fulfilled. I never want to stop learning. I don't want to die with regrets. My goals at age 20 were unreasonable -- at least for the man I am today.

I think early TV created an alternate reality that some of us started to believe, even knowing that those old shows were fiction. Life isn't like that. There are hardships and terrors and anger and hurt and resentment. Hopefully we are able to create the balance eventually that answers in part the question: "What am I doing this for??"

Originally posted by argentusI think early TV created an alternate reality that some of us started to believe, even knowing that those old shows were fiction. Life isn't like that.

So, so, incredibily true. It's all illusion.

Bleeping marketing.

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by BadBoYeed

 

It seems like all we do is work, eat, sleep, work, eat, sleep, work...etc. What's the point of living if you never get to live?

Pred...

I COMPLETELY understand! Lately its been sooo hard for me to get up and go to work. Why would I go sit behind a desk in a busy office when I can be outside where the sun is shining on the prettiest November in upstate NY I've ever seen!

You're not bad, I feel the same exact way.

Check out this thread by another ATS member. It's a short story that sums up working to me!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by doobydoll

Yes an excellent choice you made.

I did the same thing once divorced when my baby was a year old. I did the single dad thing, raising one daughter who needed a parent around, so I worked at her school for 6 years, got involved in the classroom acitvities and school trips.. I got to see my girl go through all the stages of developement and was fortunate to participate in her life instead of being absent in the hunt for Money and Lifestyle.

16 years later we have nothing to speak of Materially.. but I would not trade any of that time for dollars or lifestyle improvement.